TRT question.

[VanDyke]

Do you guys take HCG along with your TRT dose to keep your testes healthy and for fertility issues? What about an AI to control Estradiol issues?. Are these two A MUST while on TRT?

 

[phatkid77]

yes to HCG, currently working on arimidex... dont notice much from HCG...bigger balls..which is good..

 

[VanDyke]

How much HCG per week.?

A friend of mine's uncle is a doc -competitive bodybuilder and he was telling me that going on TRT without HCG and an AI it would be a chemical castration..lol.

 

[phatkid77]

i was 400iu 2 x week.. my E2 went skyrocketing....but didnt raise test levels?? i bumped it down to 250x 2, but thought my testes appeared smaller, so i just bumped up to 350 and see how that goes...SWALE says hes never seen anyone need more than 350iu to keep the boys goin

phats

 

[VanDyke]

Bump for the " big names" of this board .

 

[phatkid77]

ungrateful bastard.....lol
im a self taught expert...ask my docs

 

[VanDyke]

LOL. No bro. ..thanks for your input and i was just wondering what the experts on here have to say about this.

 

[muscle96ss]

LOL. No bro. ..thanks for your input and i was just wondering what the experts on here have to say about this.

Do a search and checkout SWALE's website. He is a doctor who is definitely an expert in the field(I will post the link if mods allow it as I am not sure if it violates the rules or not). On his site he has an article on how to properly take HCG. It is an excellent article, a must read, and should give you peace of mind of how to do things right.

 

[VanDyke]

better yet PM me the link if you dont mind,bro.

 

[VanDyke]

Damn. 100 views and I only get 2 replies , specially on this board when a good 70 % of the members are ON all year around. Anyways ,thanks guys.

 

[phatkid77]

maybe cause my answer is all thats needed.. i jst recently read HCG doenst help with fertility, but it keeps testes functioning so it must do something....HMG is what you wold want for that....and ONLY TAKE an AI if your estrogen is high.

 

[saudades]

Are you talking about necessary TRT or having put yourself on on TRT? There is a difference.

I'm on TRT, but I don't take hcg or any anti-e. I will have been on it for nine years by the end of June. In my case, I'm not exactly choosing to be on TRT. I have to have it to be "normal." This is what I mean by necessary. The TRT replaces what I should have made so I don't get extreme estrogen (so far), and I am still somewhat fertile ('still dangerous' as my doctor put it).

 

[Frank-Oh]

Dr. Swale's HCG protocol..

"I advise my AAS patients to use small amounts of HCG (250IU to 500IU) two days each week, right from the beginning of the cycle. This serves to maintain testicular form and function. It makes more sense to me to keep the horse in the barn, so to speak, then to have to chase it across three counties later on. I am also a big fan of maintaining estrogen within physiological ranges. Both therapies have been shown to hasten recovery.

Any more than 500IU of HCG per day causes too much aromatase activity. Some feel aromatase is actually toxic to the Leydig cells of the testes. You are then inducing primary hypogonadism (which is permanent) while treating steroid-induced secondary (hypogonadotrophic) hypogonadism (which is temporary--hopefully).

If 250IU or 500IU on two days each week isn’t enough to stave off testicular atrophy, then I recommend using it more days each week (as opposed to taking larger doses). In fact, I wouldn’t mind having a guy use 250IU per day ALL THROUGH the cycle. Those that have tell me they thus avoid that edgy, burned-out feeling they usually get. They also say they simply feel better each day. Subjective reports, to be sure, but they are hard not to appreciate. Especially when HCG is so inexpensive.

The testes are then ready, willing and able to again produce testosterone at the end of the cycle. LH levels rise fairly rapidly, but endogenous testosterone production is limited by lack of use. I also want to make sure a SERM, such as Clomid or Nolvadex, is at effective serum dosage (around 100mg QD for Clomid, 20-40mg QD for Nolvadex) when serum androgen levels drop to a concentration roughly equal to 200mg of testosterone per week. That is when androgenic inhibition at the HP no longer dominates over estrogenic antagonism with respect to inducing LH production. Of course, if the fellow has been doing Clomid or Nolvadex all along the way (and I now prefer Nolvadex over Clomid, due to the possibility of negative sides from the Clomid), he is all set to simply continue it at the end (no need to switch from one to the other). BTW, I see no evidence of any benefit in using BOTH SERM’s at the same time. I used to think a couple of weeks of the SERM was enough; now I like to see an entire month after the last shot of AAS (and migration of long to short esters as the cycle matures). Tapering the SERM is probably a good idea during the last week, as well.

I want my patients to stop taking HCG within a week after the end of the cycle. The testosterone production it induces will further inhibit recovery, as will using Androgel, or any other testosterone preparation, while in recovery. There is no escaping this, as there is no such thing as a “bridge”. Just because you are not inhibiting the HPTA for the entire 24 hours does not mean you are not suppressing it at all. IOW, you can’t “fool” the body—it is smarter than you are.

I like Arimidex during the cycle (in fact, consider use of an AI while taking aromatisables a necessity) but it ABSOLUTELY should not be used post cycle (even though it has been shown to increase LH production) because the risk of driving estrogen too low, and therefore further damaging an already compromised Lipid Profile, is too great (this also drives libido back into the ground—and we don’t want that, do we?).

All this is meant to get my guys through recovery as fast as possible (the real goal, yes?). So far, all of them who have tried it have reported they are recovering faster than when they have tried other protocols."

People suggest .5mg every other day of Arimidex, but you should see what works for you. More isn't always better. So .25 eod may be fine to keep you under control.

I'm not a super member here, but I'm huge in Japan. :star-wars

 

[VanDyke]

Thanks guys.