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Trying to bring my back up

joos23

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Anyone have success splitting up back. One day width and one day thickness? It's an area I'm really trying to pull up. Was considering adding an extra 50 carbs on these days (hbcd) Thanks for the help!
 
So many ways to go here. Obviously calories play a role, but I highly doubt adding 50 grams of intra carbs is what you need. I've brought my back up a lot in the last 2-3 years so here are some thoughts.

Most guys' biggest issue with back is poor mind-muscle connection - namely, they row with their arms instead of their back musculature. All the rows in the world won't do shit if you don't actually feel the lats squeeze and stretch through the movement. Don't row with your arms - focus on your elbows being the hooks that pull your arms backwards as your lats contract. Let your elbows guide the movements.

There are no required exercises for back, or any other muscle group. I brought my back up without doing a single floor deadlift, barbell row, dumbbell row, or pullup, because I simply don't feel those exercises well in my lats. My favorite back movements are Hammer Strength plate-loaded low rows; pulldowns on a Free Motion double stack with adjustable arm height and width; and Smith machine rack deadlifts - these have done more for my back thickness and density than any other movement. Don't follow the dogmatic bullshit, figure out what exercises you feel and make progress on them each week.

If you have long arms you really need to find your appropriate range of motion on back exercises - it isn't pulling back / down as far as your arms can go. Practice movements with no weight to figure out what your back's ROM really is, then start adding the weight.

Single arm movements are great for a better mind-muscle connection and ROM, and very useful for guys with long arms. Rack deadlifts are the only back movement I do with both arms, everything else is one arm at a time.

My back has made the most progress using 8 - 12 reps. On rare occasions I may go 6 on rack deadlifts, but that's it.

Splitting back into thickness and width days definitely helped me. The increased training frequency will help hypertrophy and being able to do half the work on a day you're not deadlifting and greatly fatiguing yourself can also help. I generally do 12 sets on my thickness day and 11 on my width day.
 
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The mind muscle connection is huge.

Also, old school pull-ups are really underrated (not pulldowns - though those can be good for warm ups to build the mind muscle connection). IMO there's nothing like pullups for building that V taper in the double bicep poses.

Of course, as Dorian always says, the machine pullover is absolutely irreplaceable.


In terms of frequency, Im a proponent of the Traditional, once per week, high volume method. Though I do find that light weight active recovery several times throughout the week is good as well (just basically go through a warm up like you would for your heavy day but only do the warm up).

Intra workout carbs (imo dextrose is as good as any) can help some especially if you are on limited carbs the reat of the day. I know they really help me a lot.
 
I myself always found progressive resistance with good form to be what puts on the most muscle.
 
I have been working on the same things last two shows feed back was back needs to improve and more lower back then anything.. any thoughts> I cant train lower back hard, it ends up hurting more then anything. Lower back pain off and on for years now.
 
This pic is a lil old but..... using MAG bars and splitting Back (as you stated) brought my back up big time.....
 

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The back builders IMO are:
1. Barbell rows
2. One arm dumbbell rows
3. T-bar rows
4. Pull ups for upper width
5. Rack pulls for Xmas Tree 🌲

I’ve never tried doing back twice a week with width for one workout and thickness for the other. Once a week is all my body can handle in terms of recovery.
But give it a try. Nothing to lose.
 
I lightened the load up and only do execrises where I feel it. Really focus on contracting the muscle. Yesterday was thickness day. 12 sets and I am so sore. I think the rack pulls killed me lol
 
So many ways to go here. Obviously calories play a role, but I highly doubt adding 50 grams of intra carbs is what you need. I've brought my back up a lot in the last 2-3 years so here are some thoughts.

Most guys' biggest issue with back is poor mind-muscle connection - namely, they row with their arms instead of their back musculature. All the rows in the world won't do shit if you don't actually feel the lats squeeze and stretch through the movement. Don't row with your arms - focus on your elbows being the hooks that pull your arms backwards as your lats contract. Let your elbows guide the movements.

There are no required exercises for back, or any other muscle group. I brought my back up without doing a single floor deadlift, barbell row, dumbbell row, or pullup, because I simply don't feel those exercises well in my lats. My favorite back movements are Hammer Strength plate-loaded low rows; pulldowns on a Free Motion double stack with adjustable arm height and width; and Smith machine rack deadlifts - these have done more for my back thickness and density than any other movement. Don't follow the dogmatic bullshit, figure out what exercises you feel and make progress on them each week.

If you have long arms you really need to find your appropriate range of motion on back exercises - it isn't pulling back / down as far as your arms can go. Practice movements with no weight to figure out what your back's ROM really is, then start adding the weight.

Single arm movements are great for a better mind-muscle connection and ROM, and very useful for guys with long arms. Rack deadlifts are the only back movement I do with both arms, everything else is one arm at a time.

My back has made the most progress using 8 - 12 reps. On rare occasions I may go 6 on rack deadlifts, but that's it.

Splitting back into thickness and width days definitely helped me. The increased training frequency will help hypertrophy and being able to do half the work on a day you're not deadlifting and greatly fatiguing yourself can also help. I generally do 12 sets on my thickness day and 11 on my width day.

I can't tell you how spot on this post is. Really covered all bases and excellently worded. Mind muscle connection is key. The back is harder for most as you simply can't see it when you are working it. I have rowed 6 pps with decent form (to look at) but I wasn't really connecting with my back. I have had better results using less weight and pulling 100% with my back.

Obviously progressive overload and consistenty over the long haul is key but if the connection isn't there and you don't have the genetics forget about it. Guys with genetics can get away with simply pressing for chest and pulling for back but if it's not naturally there you really have to work at it over years. I would recommend unilateral work, heavy weight, don't row/pull with your arms and squeeze the shit out of the muscle(s). Also forget about any lists of exercises that guys "must do for a bodypart" as these things are not universal. Pick exercises that you connect with the most. But sure the heavy basics are popular for a reason. The harder exercises tend to give the best results but everyone is different.
 
Stretch! Every rep, let your lats stretch.

Use straps. For me, my forearms easily take over any back movement and get the brunt of the work. Your arms are just hooks. If you're anything like me in that regard, don't feel ashamed of using straps to let your actual back do the work every rep, every set.

Daniel hit it on the head with not allowing yourself to feel as though you MUST do a certain exercise or be faced with subpar back development. Do what works for you and fuck everything else. If one arm pulley rows are what you feel best in your lats, then run em into the ground until you stall on them.

For pull downs, I use unconventional form, but it's what works best for me. And the next workout, I might do something different. Who knows? With pull downs, I take it down to my chest using a little body English on the last reps of a set, then slow down the eccentric part of the movement and really let my lats stretch until the end of the rep.

On machines and pulley movements, take advantage of the one arm handles. Do them one arm at a time if you feel it better.
 
You've done barbell rows with 585 for reps? Because Coleman's top set was 495 for 8 in the 'The Unbelievable.'

Not barbell row. Hammer strength machine. My lower back has been messed up for many years so I don't do any dl's or barbell rows anymore. My point was I get more results from lifting slightly lighter using the same equipment (plate loaded machines). Sometimes when guys go that extra 20% up in weight it hinders that connection as they are essentially using everything to get the weight from A to B.

Although I do recall barbell rowing decent weight when I was much younger. I can't remember details but definitely 4 pps with good form for decent reps. I remember t bar rowing 10 plates for decent reps as well. I was always quite strong. I recall being a kid and I went the gym with my mate who had big legs and he couldn't do 1 rep with the full weight rack on horizontal leg press and I could do 20 reps and that was the first time ever using it. I hack squatted 10 plates per side (for about 10 reps) when I was about 23-25 and my legs were still shit so it means nothing. There are strong people all over.
 
You've done barbell rows with 585 for reps? Because Coleman's top set was 495 for 8 in the 'The Unbelievable.'

Many bullshit on the internet but I don't think any of my claims are that impressive (in fact they are very common). Nor would I ever bullshit ever. I usually downplay things as I have actually done 7pps (TG plates which are small but 20kg) rows on one machine. Although as everyone knows it means nothing as machines are not a true depiction of ones strength. Some machines are lighter than others so very easy to impress. An example is I have shoulder pressed 7pps on one plate loaded machine for decent reps (good form). Obviously if I were to barbell shoulder press you are talking 3pps so the difference is huge. Nevertheless I wish I had some videos as I have done some good lifts but never take my phone to the gym. I will try and get some done this offseason though as I like to show what I am doing.

I did post one video on here once but I had just injured my back (for about the 10th time). I usually go very deep on leg press but the rom of motion is limited but not too bad. I like a limited rom for quad focused reps. Anyway I think I got 54 reps on leg press with 6pps and that was at the end of a 2 hour workout. Nothing crazy but I think it shows my legs are quite strong. Even with a partial rom guys try getting over 50 reps with 6pps and see how hard it is as it's not fucking easy :eek::D
 
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Elvia,

That's still some awesome stuff. I've always been strength obsessed and in awe when someone has a crazy strength-to-weight ratio. Everyone can make improvements, but we can only go so far and not all of us will have the luxury of hitting those crazy high numbers. Some people are just freaks from the get-go and have a higher ceiling than normal people. Life is not fair:cool:

The genetic components become quite fascinating when you think about a person's makeup with respect to cell mitochondria, joint, tendon, and ligament strength, as well as biomechanical leverage.
 
imagine, as yr doing sets, that yr hand is a hook and forearms are steel rods attached to yr elbows.
then dont think about pulling. imagine PUSHING. pushing back and/or down with yr elbows, as if yr tryin to move thru sand.
trying to touch yr shoulder blades together.
takes the arms out as much as possible and for me i started feeling the lats working finally when learned this mind trick.
 
Elvia,

That's still some awesome stuff. I've always been strength obsessed and in awe when someone has a crazy strength-to-weight ratio. Everyone can make improvements, but we can only go so far and not all of us will have the luxury of hitting those crazy high numbers. Some people are just freaks from the get-go and have a higher ceiling than normal people. Life is not fair:cool:

The genetic components become quite fascinating when you think about a person's makeup with respect to cell mitochondria, joint, tendon, and ligament strength, as well as biomechanical leverage.

The genetic component is extremely interesting but strength has never interested me nor have I trained for it. Well maybe that came out wrong as it's great to get stronger and lift heavy so I obviously do try to get stronger. Although you will never see me go for 1 rep maxes and I tend to stick to 6+ reps. It doesn't impress me when I see guys lift heavy things. Well in a strength to weight ratio it can do but watching someone who is 30% bodyfat bench press a weight a few inches has never interested me. It's great seeing guys like Larry Wheels do their thing. I also enjoy watching strongmen but I am not a big fan of powerlifting and find it quite boring. Anything to do with the gym interests me though and you can't beat some old school Ronnie Coleman or Branch Warren videos.
 
Thank you brother..... luckily i have a teeny tiny waist which gives the illusion of a bigger back..

This is also key. I have a wide back but also a wide waist so it makes my back look much narrower. Guys who don't control their waist growth as they get bigger will always have issues unless they have amazing genetics for back/lat development. So if you want to look as wide as possible make sure you keep your waist tight. I would also destroy side and rear delts as well as they makes a massive difference.

One guy who has made very good back progress recently is Andrei Deiu and the most I see him barbell row is 1.5 plates per side. Hany Rambod has taught him the importance of mind muscle connection and quality over quantity. Now I am not stating don't push the weights as you should be getting as strong as possible if you want thick dense back muscle but don't think strength is everything as it couldn't be further from the truth.
 

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