Tumeric - Hep C - Liver Health

[NY Muscle]

All I know is the 2 formulations I take work and I am now no longer taking my arthritis meds. With RA we know exactly what's going on in our body with pain. There is no placebo when it comes to knowing when pain is reduced and this curcumin is excellent stuff.

Would this Meriva stuff work better? Who knows and the difference may be so subtle that its not worth my time and pain switching.

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[Knight9]

Meriva is the most backed curcumin formulation. Longvida's data doesn't add up and not enough clinical trials to back up it up as meriva or even sabinsa's C3 reduct.

1 g / day and you will be golden.

BCM-95 is interesting but phytosome delivery is much more scientifically validated.


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Lol it isn't opinion. I don't have time to do this for you I'm sorry. Don't have to believe me but what I am saying is completely backed by clinical trials or publications. I am well versed in science, got my degree in biology and have done research at Harvard and Brigham & Women's so I'm not just an internet bro haha


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I know...I'm not an internet bro either. I have read your posts and I know when I see someone who is well-versed and educated in subjects. However, to sit there are say Meriva is the best and most-backed when it supposedly has no clinical research in humans is odd. BCM-95 looks like the world-beater in these graphs and charts...but also supposedly has no human trials. From what I heard on that webinar....the choice of the M.D. and the only one which has backing with human trials is Longvida. Sabinsa C3 it out there....so it Theracurmin...and even Curcuclear. At this point I am not even sure of all the differences in these 6+ kinds....all which fib and twist things to tell you they are superior.

I like your posts bro...you could really add a lot here it seems.

 

[Gravyv]

Would this help with lower back pain from a tear (hernia)/degenerated discs?

 

[mrsliz1724]

I know...I'm not an internet bro either. I have read your posts and I know when I see someone who is well-versed and educated in subjects. However, to sit there are say Meriva is the best and most-backed when it supposedly has no clinical research in humans is odd. BCM-95 looks like the world-beater in these graphs and charts...but also supposedly has no human trials. From what I heard on that webinar....the choice of the M.D. and the only one which has backing with human trials is Longvida. Sabinsa C3 it out there....so it Theracurmin...and even Curcuclear. At this point I am not even sure of all the differences in these 6+ kinds....all which fib and twist things to tell you they are superior.

I like your posts bro...you could really add a lot here it seems.

apologies... was having a shitty night when I wrote that and thought you were calling me out haha... That is my bad. Meriva does have clinical research in humans. Here are some publications involving either A) phytosome drug delivery for hydrophilic

An overview of phytosomes as an advancedherbal drug delivery system
An overview of phytosomes as an advanced herbal drug delivery system | Kapil Khambholja - Academia.edu
phytosome drug delivery has enhanced capacity to cross the lipid-rich biomembranes and, finally, reach the blood. They have improved pharmacokinetic and pharmacological parameters.

Product-evaluation registry of Meriva®, a curcumin-phosphatidylcholine complex, for the complementary management of osteoarthritis.
Product-evaluation registry of Meriva®, a cur... [Panminerva Med. 2010] - PubMed - NCBI
- 50 patients with OA used 200 mg curcumin per diem for 3 months and saw benefits in mobility, walking distance, WOMAC scores adn reduction in CRP.

Potential role of curcumin phytosome (Meriva) in controlling the evolution of diabetic microangiopathy. A pilot study.
Potential role of curcumin phytosome (Meriva)... [Panminerva Med. 2011] - PubMed - NCBI

Now the next one pertains to systemic levels of curcumin after regular curcumin and meriva. This will demonstrate its ability to reach the liver in a significant manner, for which, we can then utilize other studies to speak to its benefits upon the liver.

Comparison of systemic availability of curcumin with that of curcumin formulated with phosphatidylcholine.
Comparison of systemic availabili... [Cancer Chemother Pharmacol. 2007] - PubMed - NCBI

Curcumin and liver disease.
Curcumin and liver disease. [Biofactors. 2013 Jan-Feb] - PubMed - NCBI
- discusses various liver diseases and the role curcumin can play in it.


So, no, we do not have clinical trials involving specifically liver diseases in humans to my knowledge but we do have is that this specific forumlation is demonstrating efficacy in various diseases states (i left a good amount out because I just wanted to get the point across). This means that is is being taken up and utilized in the body whereever it may be present. Then we have a study demonstrating that it is present in the liver after ingestion. It is present to a much greater level than regular curcumin. We know that curcumin has shown strong hepatoprotective effects in the liver whether that be in-vitro or in-vivo or in animal models. We have a decent understand of the mechanism of action for this hepatoprotective effect as well.

"In vitro and in vivo experiments suggested that curcumin
may play a major role in hepatocytes protection by inhibiting
the production of NO and TNF-a in LPS-activated Kupffer
cells. Later studies using LPS-induced hepatotoxicity further
sustained these findings, highlighting the interfering role of curcumin on the inflammatory and apoptotic TNF-a/NF-jB signaling
pathway"

"Curcumin
treatment has also been shown to decrease hepatic NF-jB levels,
markers of hepatic inflammation, and hepatomegaly in diabetic
and obese mouse models"

"besides TNF-a signaling, curcumin
has been reported to inhibit the expression of other NF-jBdependent
inflammatory chemokines and cytokines, such as
IL-6, IL-2, TGF-b, and MCP-1, and inflammation-promoting
enzymes such as COX-2 and iNOS in Kupffer cells and hepatic
tissue homogenates"

and the informatino continues on and on.

You get the point though. We dont have exact studies in humans for specific disease states of the liver but we do know that it is able to inhibit the expression of various enzymes or inflammatory mediating chemo/cytokines which then in turn will reduce the levels of leukocyte/macrophage/neutrophil migration to the site of inflammatin in the liver, along with a whole slew of other aspects. Lastly, we know this formulation is found int he liver after ingestion and that high levels of demethoxycurcumin are found in the blood serum of volunteers ingesting meriva which is a potent metabolite/curcuminoid .

Apologize for the amount of writing...feel free to ask questinos or pin-point certian aspects that I am no clear on or you don't agree with!

 

[lhouay]

So for the mere mortals like me which of these would I reap the most benefit?
All are dosed the same 500mg/cap but some brands recommend 4 caps/day and some 2 caps/day. and NY Muscle is taking 3 caps/day. For overall health what do guys thing?

 

[mrsliz1724]

So for the mere mortals like me which of these would I reap the most benefit?
All are dosed the same 500mg/cap but some brands recommend 4 caps/day and some 2 caps/day. and NY Muscle is taking 3 caps/day. For overall health what do guys thing?

As the above post would indicate, my vote is for Meriva. Take 1 gram / day. Other than scientific reasoning, my aunt with bad osteoarthritis has been on it for 1 g a day for 2 months and hasn't felt this great in a couple years.


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[Knight9]

As the above post would indicate, my vote is for Meriva. Take 1 gram / day. Other than scientific reasoning, my aunt with bad osteoarthritis has been on it for 1 g a day for 2 months and hasn't felt this great in a couple years.


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Do you have a second and third choice? Can you please explain why and perhaps how much of them? Thanks for sparking this....as I have been sold on the BCM-95. Also ofcourse Theracurmin, C3, and Longvida options..

 

[mrsliz1724]

Do you have a second and third choice? Can you please explain why and perhaps how much of them? Thanks for sparking this....as I have been sold on the BCM-95. Also ofcourse Theracurmin, C3, and Longvida options..

My second would probably be BCm-95 because of the increase in availability and efficacy when curcumin is combined with oils from the root and whole extract as well as other curcuminoids. With BCM-95 I would definitely use it with bioperine + ginger which is known to increase bioavailability by approximately 70%. Reason I don't do this with meriva is because those won't increase the absorption of a phytosome). It has some solid studies as well.

Longvida just doesn't make sense to me. The numbers and results don't add up....

(Did you see my long ass post above? Just wanted to make sure haha)


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[Knight9]

My second would probably be BCm-95 because of the increase in availability and efficacy when curcumin is combined with oils from the root and whole extract as well as other curcuminoids. With BCM-95 I would definitely use it with bioperine + ginger which is known to increase bioavailability by approximately 70%. Reason I don't do this with meriva is because those won't increase the absorption of a phytosome). It has some solid studies as well.

Longvida just doesn't make sense to me. The numbers and results don't add up....

(Did you see my long ass post above? Just wanted to make sure haha)


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Yes, I glanced over it....I am going to go back over and read it...probably 8-10 times LOL. Bioperine is Piperine is Black Pepper Extract correct? How would you ADD that to supplemental curcumin. How would you add ginger? Is it simple or a pain in the ass?
Thank you for your contributions. Honestly, I wish there was a clear answer to all this...you ask 10 people and you'll get 8 or 9 answers on what is best and what they think makes sense.

 

[mrsliz1724]

Yes, I glanced over it....I am going to go back over and read it...probably 8-10 times LOL. Bioperine is Piperine is Black Pepper Extract correct? How would you ADD that to supplemental curcumin. How would you add ginger? Is it simple or a pain in the ass?
Thank you for your contributions. Honestly, I wish there was a clear answer to all this...you ask 10 people and you'll get 8 or 9 answers on what is best and what they think makes sense.

You can simply purchase bioperine and ginger. The higher the extract percentage of ginger the better. The. Take them along your curcumin dose.

This is coming from a massive review on herbal bioenhancers and these two seemed to have great increases on bioavailability individually and an increased benefit together.

Mind you this is in regard to BCm-95 but this could be helpful with C3 from Sabinsa as well.


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[Knight9]

http://mobile.nutraingredients-usa....game-changing-Curcumin-C3-Reduct#.UpWtmRpZ65k

It's all so confusung. Why can't these companies work and fund research together to develop a superior curcumin? This is absolutely ridiculous!

C3 reduct...?
Meriva
Bcm-95
Longvida
C3 w/bioperine
Theracurmin
95% curcuminoids

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[SABAGOY]

Is curcumin the next omega-3? Sabinsa expects so with ?game changing? Curcumin C3 Reduct

It's all so confusung. Why can't these companies work and fund research together to develop a superior curcumin? This is absolutely ridiculous!

C3 reduct...?
Meriva
Bcm-95
Longvida
C3 w/bioperine
Theracurmin
95% curcuminoids

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I agree...its made it so confusing on which to take that I end up not taking it at all when I really want to be and should.

 

[JRBD]

Had the same problem trying to find the best one....been using SOURCE NATURALS with Meriva...Source naturals products are good quality,I use a lot of there products....

 

[mrsliz1724]

Please see my above posts. Meriva is of the highest quality on the market.

It wouldn't make sense for separate companies to fund research together because then none of them would have a unique innovative version

 

[Knight9]

Please see my above posts. Meriva is of the highest quality on the market.

It wouldn't make sense for separate companies to fund research together because then none of them would have a unique innovative version

Please prove or display how Meriva is better than Bcm-95 and Longvida. I'm not doubting....just looking for something solid.

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[Knight9]

Please see my above posts. Meriva is of the highest quality on the market.

It wouldn't make sense for separate companies to fund research together because then none of them would have a unique innovative version

===========================================
What about Longvida vs Meriva?

Both of those brands use some form of phospholipid, but the two formulas do not have identical absorption.

Meriva (sold by Thorne) has a small human study showing benefit using two capsules twice a day for osteoarthritis, but that is only based on subjective data (pain and functionality scales rather than serum inflammatory markers).

Usana (a large supplement company) analyzed Meriva bioavailability and here is what they said:

Free curcumin could not be detected in any plasma samples, in accordance with previous studies that have mostly failed to detect unconjugated curcumin in human plasma even after the administration of megadoses of curcumin.

However, Usana did find some metabolites of curcumin (referred to as ‘curcuminoids’):

The peak plasma total curcuminoid concentration (Cmax) reached with the high dosage of Meriva was 206.9 ng/mL…. [However] Within the context of curcumin human absorption, the >200 ng/mL concentration of conjugated curcuminoids is still lower than the low micromolar concentration of free curcumin required for direct activity against its various targets. 6

In addition, some studies suggest that although some of the curcuminoid metabolites have anti-inflammatory effects (and thus may be helpful against arthritis, which is what Meriva is marketed for), only curcumin, not its metabolites, will work against Alzheimer’s:

Despite dramatically higher drug plasma levels after administering [the curcuminoid metabolite] tetrahydro-curcumin… only curcumin was effective in reducing amyloid plaque burden. Tetrahydro-curcumin had no impact on [Alzheimer’s] plaques or insoluble Amyloid-β… Curcumin, but not tetrahydro-curcumin, prevented Amyloid β aggregation. 7

Therefore, for prevention of Alzheimer’s, Longvida is the better choice.



- See more at: **broken link removed**

 

[mrsliz1724]

There is no curcumin proven to protect against Alzheimer's.... You are making rather large leaps with lack of knowledge/evidence to fill those gaps.

Additionally please re evaluate the studies you are looking at because there have been studies showing levels of curcumin on the blood and various tissue in the body from meriva as well as it's curcuminoid metabolites.

 

[Knight9]

There is no curcumin proven to protect against Alzheimer's.... You are making rather large leaps with lack of knowledge/evidence to fill those gaps.

Additionally please re evaluate the studies you are looking at because there have been studies showing levels of curcumin on the blood and various tissue in the body from meriva as well as it's curcuminoid metabolites.

Im not making leaps. I am obviously presenting evidence of an argument against what you say AND including the link. I know you love Meriva and that is cool....but please explain how its better than bcm-95 or longvida? Don't just tell me Meriva's claims to fame.

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[mrsliz1724]

Im not making leaps. I am obviously presenting evidence of an argument against what you say AND including the link. I know you love Meriva and that is cool....but please explain how its better than bcm-95 or longvida? Don't just tell me Meriva's claims to fame.

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It is a leap. You claimed it would help prevent Alzheimer's better than meriva when no curcumin has ever been proven or has evidence in favor of preventing Alzheimer's.

Phosphatidylcholine delivery is much more efficient than the benefits that BCM-95 would provide. Not to say bCM-95 is not better than regular turmeric extract because it is.

Longvida has great science but most data points towards that the solid lipid particle formulation is leading to extremely high amounts of curcumin in the blood stream and none of its metabolites. Therefore it isn't being metabolized and there is a good chance that much of the higher levels are pretty much useless because the particles are avoiding metabolism and are most likely being excreted. Even if it is all curcumin the user is missing out on the benefits if it's metabolites.

Meriva has proven to increase curcumin and it's metabolites levels in the blood which can provide much of the same benefits of Longvida's as well as all of the benefits curcumin is famous for, hepato-protective, renal-protective, cardio protective, anti-inflammatory, and so on and so forth.

Am I posting studies? No because I don't have time to go through my database to find exact articles for you but I am paid to know a lot about it.... So yeah.

I do appreciate the questions and opposing thoughts because it facilitates a great discussion!

 

[tripletotal]

I currently use BCM-95. I might switch over to injectable to avoid any absorption issues.

It will also be cheaper, as injections are only needed once a month or less instead of oral 2-3X/day.

Thoughts?