Turning down 5 million dollars a year....

[b-boy]

I am soooooo blessed to be sponsored by a company like true protein.. I can never say this enough dante....THANK YOU! :headbang:

 

[emeric delczeg]

Ive previously said Ive never seen as many shysters in this industry as Ive seen come along in this recession.

Im going to tell you a litte story (just because my disgust level is high right now)

A broker (who takes care of a slew of name brand companies you see out there on supplement store shelves and in magazines...companies that have been talked about on this and other boards far and wide, known NAME BRAND COMPANIES) contacts my business partner and I to custom manufacturer for him. I already make supplements for about 42 companies out there so this is the norm. Its a very rare case that any sparkly label retail supplement company makes their own products....its custom manufacturers like myself who do so, and they (retail supplement company) stick to the media marketing/advertising.........In the last year my business partner and I have seen this recession bring out the worst of the worst of business people to make a dollar.

He (broker for these many retail companies) wants hundreds of thousands of pounds of raw materials jugged, heatsealed, labeled, and shipped out to supplement stores or distributorships. Not a problem...thats what we do.

The profit margin on everything he wanted to do came out to 400 thousand dollars a month. Thats what he wanted to start out doing and then he wanted to ramp up even higher. He had lost his last custom manufacturer because they were shysters who got out of the shyster business and reformulated (a company that has been talked about on this board, other boards and has advertised on many boards over the last many years....some of you board owners probably know of whom i talk about as about 3 of you contacted me over the years and said "hey what the hell is up with these guys products, we are having serious stomach problems over here") .....I digress.
So we price everything out and this broker is good to go...he is excited. At the last minute before we start production he asks the question we have been getting alot of in the last year....."Heyyyyyyy, you guys know whats up.......lets do this, lets take out 25% of that (many dollar per pound) Isolate and lets put in (less than a buck) dextrose"........
Our reply, "yea we can do that but we are going to have to have you change the labels you sent over to apply because now the ingredient list is different."
Him: Naaa just leave the labels like they are, its good to go"

This has gone on for many weeks now with us absolutely refusing to put on his labels.....including a lengthy discussion between my business partner and I about all the particulars involving this company and our morals/values as a manufacturing company.

And then the ensuing argument/refusal with the broker/company which ended with turning this company/broker away.

Bottom line? We turned down 5 million dollars profit (at least) a year because we do the "right thing" over here. Im giving my business partner and myself a little pat on the back for that because TAKE IT TO THE BANK....the next custom manufacturer wont turn him away and a whole bunch of guys in this bodybuilding industry will be on bodybuilding boards raving about a "PROTIEN THAT TASTES FREAKING INCREDIBLE (ahhh good old dextrose) AND THE PRICE JUST CANT BE BEAT FOR "cough cough" 24 grams of protein per scoop

Would he have been my biggest client numbers wise? No, but its a good chunk of change.....but....allow myself a little pride of doing the right thing.

Its a very dog eat dog world out there right now (not only in supplement industry but every industry)...we got taken for 5 figures in 2008 and 5 figures in 2010 in deals involving "friends' in the bodybuildng industry that I gave a little leeway too....lessons learned.......
I ask everyone to be very wary and a educated consumer in this new year.

I congratulate you and your partners for decision you made. True Protein is one that you can trust.

 

[csmith8]

That is why I tell everyone about your company DANTE! Thank you for your great products and customer service. Trueprotein is always willing to work with me and get the highest quality supplements at the best prices. Thanks again for your stand out reputation!

 

[FordTurboDiesel]

Im a pretty impatient person, (waiting for a pkg.) but after switching to TP I have no regrets. I try to refer others as well, although Im just an average guy. I at least feel like Im giving what little money I have to good people.

 

[The Dude]

I'll be spending my $250 a month on your products from now on.

 

[bellicose]

thank you for doing the right thing, the people that matter appreciate it

I'll be putting in an order soon,

 

[NY Muscle]

What scum bags in this industry. Out of curiosity what would it cost for the average person to get something tested? If we tried to locate a place to send some protein powder too to find the amount of fat, protein, carbs, how much is something like that?

I think someone needs to do like that supplement review book again, test a bunch of products and put it out there even if something small like in an article or a blog online. Depending on price, would love to see maybe 15-20 brands tested and then maybe this would be a way to see who are the scum bags and maybe the outfit Dante speaks of will be in there as well, this way he would not have to tell us who they are in a public forum and risk being sued.

 

[jay_dub]

Dante, are you allowed to say what companies you manufacture for?? I'd love to know because anyone NOT on that list will never get business from me again...

I mean I pretty much strictly order from TP only but sometimes I still pick something up here and there when a big sale is going on...

 

[basskiller]

thats because you guys have what is seriously lacking these days.. Integrity!! You yes.. give yourself a pat on the back.. You damn well deserve it.
Putting aside it's just right to do what you guys have done..
possible senerio if you had done what they asked...
People complain about the product, the company then blames your company saying they didn't have any idea you substituted the dextrose for the isolate.. Ensuing huge court battle..

I just wish there were more guys like you around these days DC..
Kudos

 

[fade]

Dante,

The way I look at it - and correct me if I'm wrong.

The big guys, the HUGE companies that are out there. Gaspari, BSN, Dymatize, Optimum, etc.. Are the ones that are undergoing the most scrutiny. It's a dog eat dog world out there, and if any of these companies were lying on their labels - the other companies would find out.

Example - If Gaspari's Myofusion really had 10g of sugar in there instead of 3, with only 17g of protein instead of 25.. I have a feeling that BSN, Dymatize, etc.. Would be testing this protein privately, and it would not be that way for long. They would release the results publicly to try and take business away from that company and drive more towards themselves.

I would consider any of the big companies as safe, since If I were an owner of BSN and Myofusion comes out for cheaper and tastes awesome - I would test that shit and expose them if it were a lie on the label.

I could be completely off base, and let me know if I am. This is just my conclusion of the companies. The companies I absolutely do not trust are the small house-brand companies, the up-and-comers, and the ones that no one really cares enough about to test. I've tasted some DAMN good protein from small-ass companies.. Ya know, If dymatize can't make theirs taste THAT good.. They probably can't either.

 

[muscleguys]

::ction-sm::ction-sm

Great to hear this, I don't buy anything from you currently. But will check out your product line. Ethics and Business are tough to find together these days it seems.

 

[qbkilla]

this guy is scum if this is true and he is a thief. i would post up his name and the companies he represents what he is doing is illegal. what if someone has diabetes and they are taking dextrose thinking its protein? i would report him or get their products tested and bust this scammer/thief.

 

[Massive G]

Dante,

The way I look at it - and correct me if I'm wrong.

The big guys, the HUGE companies that are out there. Gaspari, BSN, Dymatize, Optimum, etc.. Are the ones that are undergoing the most scrutiny. It's a dog eat dog world out there, and if any of these companies were lying on their labels - the other companies would find out.

Example - If Gaspari's Myofusion really had 10g of sugar in there instead of 3, with only 17g of protein instead of 25.. I have a feeling that BSN, Dymatize, etc.. Would be testing this protein privately, and it would not be that way for long. They would release the results publicly to try and take business away from that company and drive more towards themselves.

I would consider any of the big companies as safe, since If I were an owner of BSN and Myofusion comes out for cheaper and tastes awesome - I would test that shit and expose them if it were a lie on the label.

I could be completely off base, and let me know if I am. This is just my conclusion of the companies. The companies I absolutely do not trust are the small house-brand companies, the up-and-comers, and the ones that no one really cares enough about to test. I've tasted some DAMN good protein from small-ass companies.. Ya know, If dymatize can't make theirs taste THAT good.. They probably can't either.

I think some legal action happened about a few years ago when 1fast400 tested some of proteinfactories products and they didn't meet the label claim
and protein factory sued them.

Not sure what the basis was...but it's probably a complicated issue if one company were to test anothers products and publish the tests-if they accused them of tampering etc-or the impending cost of litigation prevented them from pursuing it.

A few years back I posted on Mayhem about how Met-Rx basically sucked as they had changed the formula after Rexall bought the company from Dr. Connelly...and I was cotacted by one of there reps to pull the comment or they could sue me. yea right, I knew the formula changed but didn't need the headache of dealing with threats like that.

 

[Massive G]

I think some legal action happened about a few years ago when 1fast400 tested some of proteinfactories products and they didn't meet the label claim
and protein factory sued them.

Not sure what the basis was...but it's probably a complicated issue if one company were to test anothers products and publish the tests-if they accused them of tampering etc-or the impending cost of litigation prevented them from pursuing it.

A few years back I posted on Mayhem about how Met-Rx basically sucked as they had changed the formula after Rexall bought the company from Dr. Connelly...and I was cotacted by one of there reps to pull the comment or they could sue me. yea right, I knew the formula changed but didn't need the headache of dealing with threats like that.

Found some reference to it circa 2002:

Who here gets their PROTEIN from the PROTEINFACTORY.com...............?

Protein Factory lab results : Weights Forum : Active Low-Carber Forums

 

[DOGGCRAPP]

Dante, cudos for having integrity. Takes a lot of moral fiber to turn down a large sum of profit like that.

My question for you though is this: how can we be better educated consumers? If the places that make the supplements are mislabeling the product how can we actually know that? I don't see how it's possible?

Don't get me wrong, I already buy 85% of my supplements from TP, but for someone who for whatever reason want's to buy the shiny jugs. How can they know what they are getting?

To play devils advocate(I don't believe this at all), how do we even know what TP sell us is as labeled? If I make a custom mix up, or buy x amount of lbs of isolate I'm still taking your word that it has say 26g of protien per serving.

I guess MY answer to that is trust. I trust True Protein because of the rep that you guys have, and I've used your products and many other people have and vouch for them.

Thoughts? Opinions?

Very true....I totally agree....I could just be giving lip service to myself in this thread and doing the same things as these other guys. We do have certificates of analysis for every raw material we sell and we use a few key major independant labs. I am very tempted to give you a great independant labs contact info but let me think this out a little....because this is a lawsuit happy industry and I know how this stuff goes...."you buy retail brand, send it to get tested, are pissed to find out its not what the label says, you put it out there publically your thoughts, that company (which has alot of dollars and will throw the artillery at you) comes at you with guns blaring and somehow wraps us up in a collusion that we were in cahoots with you to defame them".....its a touchy area and thats why when you see me speak about it I never name people and speak in general terms.

I will say this though...and Im the only company out there that I know does this....THE ONLY ONE I know of....when you order lets say 15 pounds of chocolate cold filtrated isolate....we go get you FIFTEEN pounds of CF Isolate first and then add your chocolate/flavoring sweetener to it......the people reading this thread might be very surprised to find out that when you ordered three 5 pound jugs from a known brand name retail company .... what you probably truly got? 14 pounds of protein and 1 pound of cocoa/sweetener = your 15 pounds. (For some weird reason nobody adds that up over time and realizes that every time they order from that company they lose a pound of protein in the deal every single time)....thats 15 servings (scoops) lost.

 

[Jude2]

Thanks Dante. This is one of the reason why I respect you.

 

[LEX]

when I was in the industry every single product we put on the shelf we required a lab asay. at the time 10 years ago we only dealt with a handful of companies that could trace every single ingredient..in things like coQ10 and at the time creatine it was important to do so to ensure that label claims were right.

There were so many shitty games then I can't even imagine now....I can tell you as a fact that I can still get everything wholesale price and I haven't used another protein since the first time I ordered from you guys. It's not just the customer service but I actually trust you guys and what I buy is what I get.

Glad you guys are who you are and that's why as long as I can buy from you I will period.

 

[DOGGCRAPP]

Business Ethics hard to find in america these days. another reason to love TP


isn't that illegal to sell a product that is different than the label? I thought that is why we have the FDA

Its very illegal.

Thats why you see labels constructed the way they are.....in order of ingredients....and its a shyster facade.

Im a very transparent company....here is the raw ingredient...oh you want how much?...got it....do you want it flavored and sweetened?....got it....how much do you want of it?....got it.....ill get it ready for you.

and then you deal with the shipping company on how it gets to you (UPS or whoever....unlike other companies I dont up the prices of products to make you feel like you are getting free shipping or discount shipping....transparency)

Anyway back to the labels......

Youll see something like this....

Ingredients:Whey protien isolate, whey protein concentrate, maltodextrine, crystalline fructose, cocoa powder, Calcium casienate, veg fiber, natural and artificial flavor

on a label

Now most people look at that and go..."wow im getting alot of isolate at this great price!".....because the only rule (if the actual label is even correct) is that you only have to list the ingredients in order that they are in the mix amount wise.

So what could that be above?

Maybe its a company that is all about you and your benefit...they love you...they want your best interests!!!! and the want to give you this, cost for them be damned!

Ingredients:
Whey protien isolate = 80%
whey protein concentrate = 5%
maltodextrine = 4%
crystalline fructose = 4%
cocoa powder = 4%
Calcium casienate = trace (JESUS WHY THE HELL BOTHER)
veg fiber = trace
natural and artificial flavor

But before you go chasing that pot of gold at the end of the rainbow also....its could probably (and is most likely) something like this

Ingredients:
Whey protien isolate = 27%
whey protein concentrate = 27%
maltodextrine = 27%
crystalline fructose = 10%
cocoa powder = 5%
Calcium casienate = (A PINCH BETWEEN THEIR FOREFINGER AND THUMB..LOL)
veg fiber = trace
natural and artificial flavor

so much for the great deal you thought you were getting....

 

[MR. BMJ]

Thanks Dante, I agree with all the comments on here about your integrity and honosty, you guys have great products, and TP is the only place I order my protein from, along with a bunch of other stuff.

I would be DEEPLY appreciative, if you could even PM some of us where we could test products, so that it would not be in the open. If not, i'm sure I could find somebody with great ties considering my other degree is in food science/chemistry.

I've seriously been pondering the idea of furthering my area in food chemistry/analysis testing down the round, after my dietetics run.

Thanks!


BMJ

 

[DOGGCRAPP]

What scum bags in this industry. Out of curiosity what would it cost for the average person to get something tested? If we tried to locate a place to send some protein powder too to find the amount of fat, protein, carbs, how much is something like that?

I think someone needs to do like that supplement review book again, test a bunch of products and put it out there even if something small like in an article or a blog online. Depending on price, would love to see maybe 15-20 brands tested and then maybe this would be a way to see who are the scum bags and maybe the outfit Dante speaks of will be in there as well, this way he would not have to tell us who they are in a public forum and risk being sued.

I saw someone do it NY Muscle and the lawsuits and cease and desist...and legal power that came at him was insurmoutable...he got out as quickly as he got in, with his tail between his legs....and might even have taken a huge financial devastation from that decision, I dont know but he got the hell out fast.....thats a no win decision.....think of all the products out there (jesus i even hesitate to say the company's names...LOL....soft drinks, etc) with aspartame in them....there are huge amounts of money involved with aspartame (manufacturing plants in asia, tremendous advertising)....you can not win the aspartame fight...and if you tried hard to go at those companies....I would suspect there would be a very good chance you would get financially ruined in doing so (and hopefully would bow out sooner than later).