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two studies I found: test better than deca...and a health one

The 300test>deca study has been around forever. There are a few problems with it though....

1) Who the heck decides to either cycle 300 test or 300 deca?
2) 900 test is not better than 600test+300 deca for MOST people, so it's kind of irrelevant to compare that 300mg.
3) Sometimes people get unbearable side effects on either test , or deca , so regardless of gains they have to run one or the other. Doesn't matter if test is better, they just can't run it because all their hair will fall out,or BP is hard to control,or they just simply don't respond well to it,or they hate the acne,etc. Or, it doesn't matter if deca is better, they can't run it because it causes severe issues with mood/depression/insomnia/whatever other sides they are prone to.

If you look at other studies, it shows that 100deca>100test ...but who the heck is going to run 100deca or 100test?

They're kind of worthless IMO; standard cycles put Test and Deca in higher amounts anyways, combining both of them(ex:750test/500deca). I don't think it's rocket-science that for the vast majority of people 700test+500deca>1200 test alone gains.

PS, I know you already know all this...haha...I'm just kinda restating the obvious and trying to make a connection as to why the study is pointless IMO
 
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I am a logicval kinda bb'er.
my body doesn't make deca. it makes test.
which one will be most healthy at reasonable dose over time?
what do you think, logically?:lightbulb:
-JS
 
I am a logicval kinda bb'er.
my body doesn't make deca. it makes test.
which one will be most healthy at reasonable dose over time?
what do you think, logically?:lightbulb:
-JS

There's actually some naturally occurring nandrolone in the body although I'm not sure on the mechanisms( as in how it's produced)..
 
There's actually some naturally occurring nandrolone in the body although I'm not sure on the mechanisms( as in how it's produced)..

FYI, the ratio in the male human body is T 50 : 1 Nandrolone.
...reasons are metabolism and development of genitals amongst others.
 
The 300test>deca study has been around forever. There are a few problems with it though....

1) Who the heck decides to either cycle 300 test or 300 deca?
2) 900 test is not better than 600test+300 deca for MOST people, so it's kind of irrelevant to compare that 300mg.
3) Sometimes people get unbearable side effects on either test , or deca , so regardless of gains they have to run one or the other. Doesn't matter if test is better, they just can't run it because all their hair will fall out,or BP is hard to control,or they just simply don't respond well to it,or they hate the acne,etc. Or, it doesn't matter if deca is better, they can't run it because it causes severe issues with mood/depression/insomnia/whatever other sides they are prone to.

If you look at other studies, it shows that 100deca>100test ...but who the heck is going to run 100deca or 100test?

They're kind of worthless IMO; standard cycles put Test and Deca in higher amounts anyways, combining both of them(ex:750test/500deca). I don't think it's rocket-science that for the vast majority of people 700test+500deca>1200 test alone gains.

PS, I know you already know all this...haha...I'm just kinda restating the obvious and trying to make a connection as to why the study is pointless IMO

I completely agree with this.
 
The 300test>deca study has been around forever. There are a few problems with it though....

1) Who the heck decides to either cycle 300 test or 300 deca?
2) 900 test is not better than 600test+300 deca for MOST people, so it's kind of irrelevant to compare that 300mg.
3) Sometimes people get unbearable side effects on either test , or deca , so regardless of gains they have to run one or the other. Doesn't matter if test is better, they just can't run it because all their hair will fall out,or BP is hard to control,or they just simply don't respond well to it,or they hate the acne,etc. Or, it doesn't matter if deca is better, they can't run it because it causes severe issues with mood/depression/insomnia/whatever other sides they are prone to.

If you look at other studies, it shows that 100deca>100test ...but who the heck is going to run 100deca or 100test?

They're kind of worthless IMO; standard cycles put Test and Deca in higher amounts anyways, combining both of them(ex:750test/500deca). I don't think it's rocket-science that for the vast majority of people 700test+500deca>1200 test alone gains.

PS, I know you already know all this...haha...I'm just kinda restating the obvious and trying to make a connection as to why the study is pointless IMO


Those are the problems with it. I would never choose test over deca. If you are trying to stay healthy low dose test and a lower dose of deca is what you do.
 
A human body doesn't make medicines either....so which is better health wise if one's sick? None or some?

Any point can be argued
 
heavylifting, I think the healthiest approach to cycling is to drop deca out of the equation permanently .... especially if the person's a recreational lifter or just going for an ifbb pro card and that's it.

idk why people think nandrolone is safe when it's extremely clear it causes stenosis of the blood vessels at an such an alarming rate :/ . just because it was made for humans and is in human grade doesn't mean it's healthy.

i hope one day bodybuilding bans everything except test/eq in moderate doses/primo lol
 
heavylifting, I think the healthiest approach to cycling is to drop deca out of the equation permanently .... especially if the person's a recreational lifter or just going for an ifbb pro card and that's it.

idk why people think nandrolone is safe when it's extremely clear it causes stenosis of the blood vessels at an such an alarming rate :/ . just because it was made for humans and is in human grade doesn't mean it's healthy.

i hope one day bodybuilding bans everything except test/eq in moderate doses/primo lol

I think the blood vessel thing is far safer if one uses NPP for 6-8 weeks instead of deca for 14-20 weeks. With testosterone, it seems like it can mess with people's bloodwork more than nandrolone can (I base this on reading forum posts). If anyone has a different experience blood work wise, please speak up.
 
you're right, nandrolone does give better blood work than testosterone

however, there's no blood test for how narrow your arteries have become

:(
 
These tests will give you an indication and the associated risk of stenosis.

•Myeloperoxidase

•Lp-PLA²

•Lp(a)

•NT-proBNP

•hs-CRP

•Fibrinogen

you're right, nandrolone does give better blood work than testosterone

however, there's no blood test for how narrow your arteries have become

:(
 
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heavylifting, I think the healthiest approach to cycling is to drop deca out of the equation permanently .... especially if the person's a recreational lifter or just going for an ifbb pro card and that's it.

idk why people think nandrolone is safe when it's extremely clear it causes stenosis of the blood vessels at an such an alarming rate :/ . just because it was made for humans and is in human grade doesn't mean it's healthy.

i hope one day bodybuilding bans everything except test/eq in moderate doses/primo lol

but doesn't deca help with joints and eq raise hematocrit a lot? I hear guys say that without deca they would tear tendons etc, what would help with not tearing tendons and helping the joints if deca was thrown out?
 
The second study seems pretty simple just to live 14 years longer.

Hey Stewie...check your PM's.
 
but doesn't deca help with joints and eq raise hematocrit a lot? I hear guys say that without deca they would tear tendons etc, what would help with not tearing tendons and helping the joints if deca was thrown out?

Reasonable levels of EQ are fine IMO? I mean shoot, I know people that have run EQ for 10-15+ years and have never come off. It's not dangerous at 300-600 a week unless you have a serious predisposition to getting high HcT and don't donate blood every 56 days. usually people that I see getting HcT problems on EQ are stacking 2-3 other things, or using 900+ eq, or not donating, or all 2-3 of these combined. i don't think i have ever come across somebody that just runs 400-600EQ by itself and donates that has BP/HCT issues...I just haven't seen it. i'm sure they're out there, but I don't know of any, do you?

The whole deca joint thing is great, but I think GH replacement therapy @ Normal doses and a healthy dose of EQ should solve the problem for most, no? Regardless, when people say they're using 'deca for joint relief', they're at 300-400 a week, and I'm pretty sure that's cycle amounts.

The whole situation sucks obviously, it would be nice if deca came with no sides so people could enjoy the great joint benefits. Just because something has benefits for your joints doesn't mean it won't cause heart issues though.
 
Reasonable levels of EQ are fine IMO? I mean shoot, I know people that have run EQ for 10-15+ years and have never come off. It's not dangerous at 300-600 a week unless you have a serious predisposition to getting high HcT and don't donate blood every 56 days. usually people that I see getting HcT problems on EQ are stacking 2-3 other things, or using 900+ eq, or not donating, or all 2-3 of these combined. i don't think i have ever come across somebody that just runs 400-600EQ by itself and donates that has BP/HCT issues...I just haven't seen it. i'm sure they're out there, but I don't know of any, do you?

The whole deca joint thing is great, but I think GH replacement therapy @ Normal doses and a healthy dose of EQ should solve the problem for most, no? Regardless, when people say they're using 'deca for joint relief', they're at 300-400 a week, and I'm pretty sure that's cycle amounts.

The whole situation sucks obviously, it would be nice if deca came with no sides so people could enjoy the great joint benefits. Just because something has benefits for your joints doesn't mean it won't cause heart issues though.

I'd like to add that I don't think tren is THAT much more dangerous than everything else. It will suck for bloodwork more than most but if used in acetate form and only for a maximum of 8 weeks with ample breaks in between, I don't see how it is that much worse. The mental side effects don't mean much, it's the health sides that do.
 
nothuman, i personally know several people IRL that magically got severe health problems within 1-4 weeks of being on tren. i know you and others will just say 'there's no scientific evidence , and you and others were okay on it, and it was probably something else coincidental, etc'

however, I am positive... I know at LEAST 10+ people that ALL started getting health problems IMMEDIATELY or SOON after starting tren.
they would stop the tren and all symptoms went away, and they went back to normal.
they would write it off and think "Ok, maybe it wasn't the tren". Started the tren, and one week later back in the ER.
got off the tren permanently, and never had health problems again.

---


there's a lot of people out there that do not have the genetics to touch that drug.

go over to anasci ...you will see another person just popped up who got pancreatitis from it....i promise you, tren DOES do this, I don't care what people say.

the people that say tren doesn't do this are the ones who lucked out with genetics and don't get these terrible sides within weeks(although they may POSSIBLY pay for it later in their life - and I have seen this too)
 
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nothuman, i personally know several people IRL that magically got severe health problems within 1-4 weeks of being on tren. i know you and others will just say 'there's no scientific evidence , and you and others were okay on it, and it was probably something else coincidental, etc'



however, I am positive... I know at LEAST 10+ people that ALL started getting health problems IMMEDIATELY or SOON after starting tren.

they would stop the tren and all symptoms went away, and they went back to normal.

they would write it off and think "Ok, maybe it wasn't the tren". Started the tren, and one week later back in the ER.

got off the tren permanently, and never had health problems again.



---





there's a lot of people out there that do not have the genetics to touch that drug.



go over to anasci ...you will see another person just popped up who got pancreatitis from it....i promise you, tren DOES do this, I don't care what people say.



the people that say tren doesn't do this are the ones who lucked out with genetics and don't get these terrible sides within weeks(although they may POSSIBLY pay for it later in their life - and I have seen this too)


What kind of severe health problems? I've had issues of my own but that was from using it at decent doses for months at a time.
 
heart problems
kidney problems (one of my best friends IRL went to the ER twice from this)
pancreas problems


kidney problems and heart problems seem to be the top 2; most people I know get the kidney issues first. the kidney things seem to happen very quickly in some people. the heart issues , it can take a while, but it suddenly hits. the funny thing is everybody that gets the heart problems from Tren gets the SAME EXACT condition. they all experience the SAME exact thing. keep in mind, the heart is a very comprehensive and sophisticated organ....a lot of different things can go wrong... so to take a sample size who all took drug "X" and get the exact side effect "Y" when there are so many different heart issues to pick from is insane.

it's so clear....
I'm POSITIVE all of this info will come out soon enough, and everybody will realize the validity of all this.

watch, people in the year 2030 are going to look back and laugh at how naive we were in 2014 about tren Lol
 
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