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two studies I found: test better than deca...and a health one

heart problems
kidney problems (one of my best friends IRL went to the ER twice from this)
pancreas problems


kidney problems and heart problems seem to be the top 2; most people I know get the kidney issues first. the kidney things seem to happen very quickly in some people. the heart issues , it can take a while, but it suddenly hits. the funny thing is everybody that gets the heart problems from Tren gets the SAME EXACT condition. they all experience the SAME exact thing. keep in mind, the heart is a very comprehensive and sophisticated organ....a lot of different things can go wrong... so to take a sample size who all took drug "X" and get the exact side effect "Y" when there are so many different heart issues to pick from is insane.

it's so clear....
I'm POSITIVE all of this info will come out soon enough, and everybody will realize the validity of all this.

watch, people in the year 2030 are going to look back and laugh at how naive we were in 2014 about tren Lol

^^^^ You stated "same exact heart conditions"
What exactly are the heart conditions that you are citing? LVH? coronary artery problems? inferior infarct? I am curious to hear what these same exact problems are in multiple people using Trenbolone. I am genuinely curious not trying to be an ass.
 
CHF


My theory, which is most likely wrong, but all I can think of:

As you know, trenbolone will increase prostaglandins throughout the body; we are most particularly concerned with the increase that occurs in the lungs.Though this surplus of prostaglandins has positive effects in changing body composition, it should be of no surprise that it will also cause vasoconstriction of the air passages. When we have a decrease in oxygen levels, the body will suffer bouts of hypoxia, regardless of how serious we take it since the degree of severity may be minimal at the time(and pose no immediate side effects besides possibly some shortness of breath in certain users). Over time, the heart will try to compensate by increasing cardiac output and contractility strength in order to deliver oxygen to the peripheral tissues,cerebral tissues,etc.

Obviously...this increase in workload on the heart will cause the organ itself to weaken,possibly weaken, and eventually lead to congestive heart failure. It is clear that this will not and does not happen to everyone(although we could argue the damage may have already been done and just won't affect them until the future when they come in at 50-60 with CHF; I also would like to stop anybody from chiming in and saying there are people at 20 with CHF -- so what? That doesn't mean it's an excuse to deny the effects a steroid had on a different individual that caused them to have it when they shouldn't have had it).



The problem with what I wrote above, is that is still doesn't necessarily make sense. Just because we have vasoconstriction of the airways should not necessarily mean that the individual will eventually have CHF( case in point: chronic bronchitis, emphysema, asthma patients).

This is why there must be another mechanism at play that we are unaware about. Nobody knows what the cause is; all I can say with certainty is the correlation between number of individuals that are avid tren users and number of them that get CHF is asinine within the realm of people I have come to know IRL or through forums. There is SOMETHING at play, which we will EVENTUALLY FIND OUT in years to come about the effects of trenbolone on the heart,arteries,and kidneys. Something that will be definitive, and people will no longer be able to write off by simply saying "Sorry bro, no scientific evidence for it yet".

We can not play it off and say it was simply mere coincidence or that these individuals getting CHF were "pre-disposed". We could say every single person who ever touched any steroid is pre-disposed -- so why is it happening ONLY to people that are using trenbolone(at least from the people I have seen).How come I am seeing hundreds of people run 2-3g test,1k deca,bursts of 100-200 anadrol ED, and they don't suffer these kind of sides in such short periods of time? I have NEVER heard of ONE single person get CHF or kidney problems while they are on other steroids.....but I have come across LOTS of people on tren(usually people who have used it for 3-5 years on and off...2-3 cycles a year) that get CHF.

PS: I can not release names, but there is a football training coach for an NFL team that recently got multi-organ failure. I know all of this stuff because he dated somebody I'm friends with IRL. Guy was clearly on a ton of tren and he's probably barely in his 40's by now. Kidneys were the first thing to go. Think about being on dialysis when you're not even 50 and don't have a single bad lifestyle habit except "getting jacked off gear'. I doubt any woman will ever want to date him again seeing the slew of problems he brought on himself with AAS use.Nobody is going to 'feel sorry' for him because he brought this upon himself by using inappropriate dosages of inappropriate drugs without closely monitoring his health to the T. This guy is not a recreational 'bro' that doesn't know what he's doing. He's a coach...for the NFL...and probably instructs his players on what to use.


I already know somebody will come in and say I'm full of sh** and I have no proof, bla bla bla.

I'll save you the time: I don't care what you say, and don't want to hear it. I'm not turning this into an argument.
I only hope somebody reads this and recognizes their life is far more precious than using this drug, especially if you don't think you'll be making top 10 on the olympia stage(note: this applies to all anabolic use in general, but I am particularly speaking to tren at this moment since it clearly is by far the harshest injectables).
 
Last edited:
So many people have used tren. I think what it boils down to is blood pressure. I believe that if that is kept in check, those issues are less likely.
 
NPP > tren
nearly same results and doesn't make you feel like shit.
 
Last edited:
CHF


My theory, which is most likely wrong, but all I can think of:

As you know, trenbolone will increase prostaglandins throughout the body; we are most particularly concerned with the increase that occurs in the lungs.Though this surplus of prostaglandins has positive effects in changing body composition, it should be of no surprise that it will also cause vasoconstriction of the air passages. When we have a decrease in oxygen levels, the body will suffer bouts of hypoxia, regardless of how serious we take it since the degree of severity may be minimal at the time(and pose no immediate side effects besides possibly some shortness of breath in certain users). Over time, the heart will try to compensate by increasing cardiac output and contractility strength in order to deliver oxygen to the peripheral tissues,cerebral tissues,etc.

Obviously...this increase in workload on the heart will cause the organ itself to weaken,possibly weaken, and eventually lead to congestive heart failure. It is clear that this will not and does not happen to everyone(although we could argue the damage may have already been done and just won't affect them until the future when they come in at 50-60 with CHF; I also would like to stop anybody from chiming in and saying there are people at 20 with CHF -- so what? That doesn't mean it's an excuse to deny the effects a steroid had on a different individual that caused them to have it when they shouldn't have had it).



The problem with what I wrote above, is that is still doesn't necessarily make sense. Just because we have vasoconstriction of the airways should not necessarily mean that the individual will eventually have CHF( case in point: chronic bronchitis, emphysema, asthma patients).

This is why there must be another mechanism at play that we are unaware about. Nobody knows what the cause is; all I can say with certainty is the correlation between number of individuals that are avid tren users and number of them that get CHF is asinine within the realm of people I have come to know IRL or through forums. There is SOMETHING at play, which we will EVENTUALLY FIND OUT in years to come about the effects of trenbolone on the heart,arteries,and kidneys. Something that will be definitive, and people will no longer be able to write off by simply saying "Sorry bro, no scientific evidence for it yet".

We can not play it off and say it was simply mere coincidence or that these individuals getting CHF were "pre-disposed". We could say every single person who ever touched any steroid is pre-disposed -- so why is it happening ONLY to people that are using trenbolone(at least from the people I have seen).How come I am seeing hundreds of people run 2-3g test,1k deca,bursts of 100-200 anadrol ED, and they don't suffer these kind of sides in such short periods of time? I have NEVER heard of ONE single person get CHF or kidney problems while they are on other steroids.....but I have come across LOTS of people on tren(usually people who have used it for 3-5 years on and off...2-3 cycles a year) that get CHF.

PS: I can not release names, but there is a football training coach for an NFL team that recently got multi-organ failure. I know all of this stuff because he dated somebody I'm friends with IRL. Guy was clearly on a ton of tren and he's probably barely in his 40's by now. Kidneys were the first thing to go. Think about being on dialysis when you're not even 50 and don't have a single bad lifestyle habit except "getting jacked off gear'. I doubt any woman will ever want to date him again seeing the slew of problems he brought on himself with AAS use.Nobody is going to 'feel sorry' for him because he brought this upon himself by using inappropriate dosages of inappropriate drugs without closely monitoring his health to the T. This guy is not a recreational 'bro' that doesn't know what he's doing. He's a coach...for the NFL...and probably instructs his players on what to use.


I already know somebody will come in and say I'm full of sh** and I have no proof, bla bla bla.

I'll save you the time: I don't care what you say, and don't want to hear it. I'm not turning this into an argument.
I only hope somebody reads this and recognizes their life is far more precious than using this drug, especially if you don't think you'll be making top 10 on the olympia stage(note: this applies to all anabolic use in general, but I am particularly speaking to tren at this moment since it clearly is by far the harshest injectables).

Thank you for your lengthy and well reasoned reply to my original question. I can't disagree with you and i think you are onto something here. I appreciate you taking the time to type all that out. I also believe that hypertension left unchecked is also a factor in the CHF and certainly the kidney problems that you cite. Most of the dialysis patients that I have talked to wound up that way from untreated and previously undiscovered hypertension which ultimately led to kidney failure.
 
NPP > tren
nearly same results and doesn't make you feel like shit.

Anybody else agree with this?

Planning to run NPP and tren thru winter, then want to add npp to a cruise thru spring.

I really like tren but have yet to try npp
 
Anybody else agree with this?

Planning to run NPP and tren thru winter, then want to add npp to a cruise thru spring.

I really like tren but have yet to try npp

Absolutely not. Tren is better than NPP without question. It's not a matter of agreement, it's a matter of fact. Now if you want to use the one that will produce less sides, that's an entirely different argument.
 
Absolutely not. Tren is better than NPP without question. It's not a matter of agreement, it's a matter of fact. Now if you want to use the one that will produce less sides, that's an entirely different argument.

Here is the thing though because of the lack of sides I find it easier to eat more , recover better and overall get better results because on tren I can't reach optimal performance because of the sides. Tren is way stronger than NPP though if you can handle it.
 
Here is the thing though because of the lack of sides I find it easier to eat more , recover better and overall get better results because on tren I can't reach optimal performance because of the sides. Tren is way stronger than NPP though if you can handle it.

Then consider lowering your dose of Tren and see how you do with that? I believe the reason "nothuman" made that comment was that in a different thread floating around here on the main board Nandrolone was implicated in narrowing of the coronary arteries in the heart as well as arteriosclerosis according to a study that was cited in that thread.
The point is this: just because you feel less sides from NPP doesn't mean its not causing internal problems with your organs and heart. Same could be said with Tren use though. I have used both so I am a risk taker I guess. To each his own.
 
you guys are right, and it is very clear/obvious:
untreated hypertension is one of the primary ways(if not the most common) that people develop CHF and CKD.
people really need to get their BP under control.

i have noticed something though: if most people take even 800 tren and only 200 test, I don't think they really get any BP issues. in fact, their BP may improve versus a 800-1k+ test cycle. i'm sure other people on here have experienced this. the problem is everybody is so individual, that somebody might be reading this right now going, "What is this fool talking about? When I ran 600tren and 100test, my BP was 140+!". Well...the people I know actually have low BP's on tren alone....Typical range 110-120.

my irl friend I spoke of earlier that went to the ER from tren......he didn't have any BP issues. in fact, his BP was the best it's ever been(normally at 130-135 on 1k test cruise, and dropped to 118 systolic on 150tren ED which is 1,050 tren a week)

despite having a 118 systolic, his kidneys were clearly in bad shape seeing that he had to be admitted to the ER twice on separate occasions after using tren at 1,050/week and then 300/week tren respectively.

though the HT would obviously be something extremely important to manage, regardless of WHAT drug you are using, there is still something else at play that we don't know about.


------
Random side note:

I'm going to have to disagree about the NANDROLONE/TRENBOLONE debate.

If the individual wants to put on as much muscle as possible:

1K Deca > 1K Tren

If the individual wants the best "all around results" and is limited to only using one of the two drugs for recomping/looking more aesthetic/gaining more strength/etc then:

1K Tren > 1K Deca

I believe nandrolone is superior to tren for actually putting on pure muscle mass. I think a lot of people who have been at it for a long time would tend to agree. I believe if somebody tried 1K test+600 deca vs. 1K test+600 tren, they would noticed they did gain more muscle mass on the nandrolone cycle. Maybe they wouldn't like the strength gains, recomp effect, and "look" as much...but that's not what I'm talking about. Just IMO.
 
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So many people have used tren. I think what it boils down to is blood pressure. I believe that if that is kept in check, those issues are less likely.

Yes control your BP it is by far the most damaging thing you can get out of AAS use. Combine that with poor diet that increases BP even worse. Reduction or no cardio. No wonder a bunch of issues pop up
 

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