UFC 117

[Anarky]

Guys, compare their faces at the press conference. Chael hit anderson what, three or four HUNDRED times in the fight? Anderson didnt have a bruise or a cut and yet, from the 10-15 times anderson connected in the fight, chael had a deep cut, a swollen eye, possibly a broken nose, etc.

This kind of fight is exactly what anderson needed to go through and to solidify his greatness. Chael and D White both said it exactly, CHAMPIONS find a way to win. Look back on some of Fedor's fights when he was getting cracked in the standup, or slammed on his head, he still found a way to win.

This kind of fight is what made Big Nog a legend, the abililty to come back.

No one is talking about Silva's chin, and how much punishment he took, or how much damage he inflicted to Chael from just a few blows, or how he didnt get mentally defeated, knew he had to win, and did what he needed to win the fight.

some peoples face are more prone to swelling. it takes a ball bat literally to bruise my face. my brother i can open his eyes up with a stiff jab. eveyones different.

 

[BigJB]

some peoples face are more prone to swelling. it takes a ball bat literally to bruise my face. my brother i can open his eyes up with a stiff jab. eveyones different.

could u take several hundred punches in the face over 25 mins and not have a mark?

point being, chael's punches were weak and had no substance behind them

 

[bigman1]

Sonnen kicked his ass from one side to the other, and he will hate himself in the morning for tapping....my personal feeling is he tapped out of doing so over and over in training because he only tapped once and not much of a tap at that. As soemone already stated he was actually breaking the choke as he tapped and he did not even know he tapped...did you guys hear him tell the ref "if you say I did, I believe you" so bottom line is Silva knows he lost but won by a lucky shot which is what MMA is all about......

 

[Bionic]

Sonnen kicked his ass from one side to the other, and he will hate himself in the morning for tapping....my personal feeling is he tapped out of doing so over and over in training because he only tapped once and not much of a tap at that. As soemone already stated he was actually breaking the choke as he tapped and he did not even know he tapped...did you guys hear him tell the ref "if you say I did, I believe you" so bottom line is Silva knows he lost but won by a lucky shot which is what MMA is all about......

So getting a submission that was transitioned to by another submission attempt is now "luck?" What is the tipping point between skill and luck? Even with all of the chips stacked in Sonnen's favor, he still couldn't secure a win. He lost the same exact way he always loses. What does that say about him? Stop making excuses for the loser.

 

[BigJB]

Sonnen kicked his ass from one side to the other, and he will hate himself in the morning for tapping....my personal feeling is he tapped out of doing so over and over in training because he only tapped once and not much of a tap at that. As soemone already stated he was actually breaking the choke as he tapped and he did not even know he tapped...did you guys hear him tell the ref "if you say I did, I believe you" so bottom line is Silva knows he lost but won by a lucky shot which is what MMA is all about......

Correction, Sonnen took him down for 4 and a half rounds, landed a bunch of shots that did no damage, and outpointed Silva. Silva, transitioned from triangle to armbar and finished the fight.

 

[LATS]

silva was not waiting on anything.. he was losing badly.. he had no answer at all. each round was either 10-9 or 10-8 in chael favor.. he screwed up and posted up and was caught.. but up to that point anderson did not have a counter for what was going on.. he was losing badly.. he knew it.. he was knocked down in the 5th.. anderson did not win as much as chael screwed up..

 

[Bionic]

Silva DID win and Sonnen DID lose. Did Lesnar not win (so much as Carwin lost) because he was getting tooled earlier in the fight? I'm calling BS. A lot of you are letting your infatuation with Sonnen cloud reality. Saying that Silva didn't win is just silly. And actually, he wasn't knocked down in the fifth. He clearly slipped.

 

[LATS]

bionic.. no one is arguing that anderson did win.. but he was schooled up to the 5th round.. all the judges saw it that way.. joe rogan has said so and dana white.. chael made a huge mistake.. but it clearly was a the win anderson had not hoped for.. so yes he won.. but it was more a mistake on chael part than a clear win on anderson's..

 

[bigman1]

Hey BIO, yes silva caught the submission but the bottom line is he was being destroyed and owned. And I disagree with BIGJB as well when he says "landed shots that did no damage" Sonnen was told to have no knock out power but I think he showed he can knock someone out. Before you say it yes I know silva was not knocked and yes Silva bounced back but he was hurt and hurt badly at that. Hell he was even caught on tape holding his ribs after the one round and yes I know he said it was from a week or so ago but that is Silva for you...he said "not to make excuses" then why bring the shit up? He brought it up because he knew he was two min from losing and losing badly.

I'm not making excuses for Sonnen he let his guard down and he got caught and as he said he is SILVER this time, he made no excuses not even for tapping and like I said have you ever seen anyone say to the ref "if you say I did then I believe you" he was the true winner in my eyes.....

By the way Sonnen backed up almost everything he said and i said ALMOST....either way can not wait til the rematch but that is if Silva takes it. I can see him saying "let sonnen work his way back up"



I will give you one thing though BIO your right Silva secured the triangle and won....

 

[Bionic]

Saying things like "Silva didn't win so much as Sonnen lost" is arguing Anderson's win. It's a weak argument, too. Since when is a submission not a legitimate "W"? Lots of fighters lose the early rounds and come back to win but it's only an issue when it's Silva? Again, Lesnar was losing early in the fight and came back to win. No one argued then. Fedor made a career of that same situation. Why's it an issue now?
The way Sonnen got caught is the same way Sonnen always gets caught. He doesn't evolve and the better fighter won. Anderson is a guy that keeps fighting til the end even when the chips are down and overcomes adversity while Sonnen is the kind of guy that can't win even when everything is going his way. His best was not good enough. Attempts to trivialize Silva's victory doesn't detract from the fact that it was YET ANOTHER successful title defense.

 

[PlateStacker45]

Exactly, People are saying that Silva got his ass beat... Sonnen swung a lot making it look as if he got his ass beat but take a look at the faces and see whos the one that took the blows, Silva knew what he was doing and was waiting for the perfect opportunity for a submission, he would just lay there sometimes and let Sonnen hit him just to let him wear himself down.

Like was said before, everyone's face and body is different. Some men will slit open and bleed like mad with just one small jab. Some you can throw bow's at them all night long and never hardly get a bruise! Since when did a fight be judged by what who had the prettier face?! HighSchool?!?! Come on.. lol

 

[PlateStacker45]

Saying things like "Silva didn't win so much as Sonnen lost" is arguing Anderson's win. It's a weak argument, too. Since when is a submission not a legitimate "W"? Lots of fighters lose the early rounds and come back to win but it's only an issue when it's Silva? Again, Lesnar was losing early in the fight and came back to win. No one argued then. Fedor made a career of that same situation. Why's it an issue now?

The Lesnar fight was way different man! Lesnar got pumbled for what.. a few minutes while he was defendeding every blow?! Lesnar was simply defending himself while Carwin flurried on him for a couple minutes. After that, Lesnar simply got up, threw Carwin around and beat his ass.

Silva got his ass beat for 4 3/4 rounds!! Silva wasn't just defending a quick flurry of punches, and he wasn't trying to tire Sonnon out either, he was getting his ass handed to him!

 

[Bionic]

The Lesnar fight was way different man! Lesnar got pumbled for what.. a few minutes while he was defendeding every blow?! Lesnar was simply defending himself while Carwin flurried on him for a couple minutes. After that, Lesnar simply got up, threw Carwin around and beat his ass.

Silva got his ass beat for 4 3/4 rounds!! Silva wasn't just defending a quick flurry of punches, and he wasn't trying to tire Sonnon out either, he was getting his ass handed to him!

Lesnar was getting "handled." He came back and won. Same deal. The amount of time that it took is inconsequential. The result was the same. Silva, after being out-wrestled and pummeled, slapped on a triangle then transitioned to an armbar resulting in Sonnen submitting. Not only is it legitimate it underscores just how dangerous he really is. It also shows how Sonnen has no punching power and is not a finisher. "And STILL..."

 

[overman]

curious

By no means am I am expert on MMA; still, I have a lingering impression that Silva deliberately prolonged the fight. OK...a little bit of a conspiracy theory. But his submission seemed so effortless and planned. Are MMA fights "pure," without promoter interference?? Silva seemed so relaxed and began each round appearing ready (no fatigue). Just curious...

 

[zaven]

Saying things like "Silva didn't win so much as Sonnen lost" is arguing Anderson's win. It's a weak argument, too. Since when is a submission not a legitimate "W"? Lots of fighters lose the early rounds and come back to win but it's only an issue when it's Silva? Again, Lesnar was losing early in the fight and came back to win. No one argued then. Fedor made a career of that same situation. Why's it an issue now?
The way Sonnen got caught is the same way Sonnen always gets caught. He doesn't evolve and the better fighter won. Anderson is a guy that keeps fighting til the end even when the chips are down and overcomes adversity while Sonnen is the kind of guy that can't win even when everything is going his way. His best was not good enough. Attempts to trivialize Silva's victory doesn't detract from the fact that it was YET ANOTHER successful title defense.

You make some solid points...IN THE END, it's all about who's hand is raised. I'm a Sonnen fan and he did his best, but his best got him the silver medal...just like he said. I just get pissed that an intelligent fighter like Sonnen hasn't trained more in BJJ because of his pride....and now it's pretty much too late, and will always haunt him no matter what he says. You have to train in BJJ or the like in order to know how to defend against it....PERIOD.

 

[Bionic]

Thanks Z. nd to everyone else in this thread, you guys are all gentleman whether we disagree or not. I appreciate the civility of the points/counterpoints. I belong to a few other boards and this is not a common occurrence.

 

[Bionic]

By no means am I am expert on MMA; still, I have a lingering impression that Silva deliberately prolonged the fight. OK...a little bit of a conspiracy theory. But his submission seemed so effortless and planned. Are MMA fights "pure," without promoter interference?? Silva seemed so relaxed and began each round appearing ready (no fatigue). Just curious...

I'm pretty sure there's all sorts of tomfuckery in the MMA world. In this particular fight, I don't think so, though. When you deal with a wrestler that doesn't really have a deep skill set and no punching power, there's gonna be a lot of layin' and prayin' and it usually end up in a humpfest. Sonnen was expending more energy with his offense than Anderson was with his defense.

 

[Shooter]

bionic.. no one is arguing that anderson did win.. but he was schooled up to the 5th round.. all the judges saw it that way.. joe rogan has said so and dana white.. chael made a huge mistake.. but it clearly was a the win anderson had not hoped for.. so yes he won.. but it was more a mistake on chael part than a clear win on anderson's..

By this logic, was it more of a mistake by Silva to get taken down so often then it was Sonen's skill? Then any late inning comeback by a baseball team is therefore more a result of the losing team being bad then the winning team being good. Same for late comebacks in football, hockey...whatever.

No offence but I hate when ppl write this kind of thing. There is a reason a fight goes an alloted time. There is a reason why the refs instruct u to "protect yourself at all times." Sonen to his credit made no excuses; he said he "finished second." If anything, he has NO excuse because apparently he lost like this a couple of times. It's like the guy who knows he has a glass jaw but keeps his hands down, dominates for all but the last 20 seconds and gets KO'd. And then does it again.

Sonen fought a great 4 rounds and a bit. But the fight goes 5. And Silva was prepared for 5. He let his mind wander and he got careless, Silva focussed on his chance and submitted him. A mental lapse is less excusable than being physically overwhelmed by a superior opponent, so to say that he "lost more" than the other guy won makes no sense. You either are prepared--both mentally and physically--for the whole fight or you aren't. Not for the first time in his career Sonen wasn't and that is why Silva is still the deserving champ.

and btw, I am no fan of either.

 

[sodzl]

Saying things like "Silva didn't win so much as Sonnen lost" is arguing Anderson's win. It's a weak argument, too. Since when is a submission not a legitimate "W"? Lots of fighters lose the early rounds and come back to win but it's only an issue when it's Silva? Again, Lesnar was losing early in the fight and came back to win. No one argued then. Fedor made a career of that same situation. Why's it an issue now?
The way Sonnen got caught is the same way Sonnen always gets caught. He doesn't evolve and the better fighter won. Anderson is a guy that keeps fighting til the end even when the chips are down and overcomes adversity while Sonnen is the kind of guy that can't win even when everything is going his way. His best was not good enough. Attempts to trivialize Silva's victory doesn't detract from the fact that it was YET ANOTHER successful title defense.

Fedor and Nog come back from beatings to win : legends
Anderson gets beat for 23 minutes comes back and wins. Luck
If a fighter is trying to set up a sub for several rounds how is it luck when he gets it.

Anderson fights with an injured rib against doctors advice because in his own words "the show must go on" . Dazed and pummelled and he pulls it off and people still hate on him.

 

[rAJJIN]

Fedor and Nog come back from beatings to win : legends
Anderson gets beat for 23 minutes comes back and wins. Luck
If a fighter is trying to set up a sub for several rounds how is it luck when he gets it.

Anderson fights with an injured rib against doctors advice because in his own words "the show must go on" . Dazed and pummelled and he pulls it off and people still hate on him.

I can tell you where I watched the fights there were about 20 of us saying the exact same thing after it happened..... That Lucky SOB!
No Doubt he is one of the best of all time. I had money saying we was going to destroy Sonnen. He showed a major weakness this fight. Something I hadnt seen before.