Ultimate Mass Building Cycle

[dr intensity]

Take it from someone who started off weighing 135 lbs at 18 to a high of 245 this summer...diet is everything....it wasn't until I started eating like a bodybuilder in the offseason that I made my best gains ever...6-7k clean cals a day, that I made my best gains ever. You are what u eat.

very good point,
and thats one of the reasons i follow BIG A`s advice on offseason diet,
ie AIM for eating 500 grams of protien everyday. This is best advise that worked for me,

ate around 150 grams of fats (mainly monounsaturated and omegas) and my carb intake was 225 to 300grams/day(most would think its to low) first meal, preworkout and post workout meals only and no post workout carbs on nontraining days(225grams on non training days)... but wait ...now just look at the results. which i divided into 6 meals out of which 3 were solid meals and three shakes and i drank 1 litre water with each meal.

i was around 197 at say 7 to 8 percent bodyfat at 5 feet 8 inches tall(i am a short guy lol), then went on cycle for 20 weeks ( 750mg test + 250 deca for the fist 10 weeks and then 1000mg test + 500mg for the last 10 ) and the end result was 229 at 10-11 percent (still could see my abs well clear).

did empty stomach cardio 45 mins every non training day( THIS REALLY HELPED ME CONTROLLING MY BODYFAT...and before this i never used to do it thinking its just a waste of time, but then by doing it i proved my self wrong )

its not that i have not done this cycle before but it did not yeild such great results previously.... but my last cycle worked like a charm, i kept on gaining and gaining during those 20 weeks.

my lifting poundages were increasing all the time, and i guess i never had a bad workout in those 20 weeks.( that was the happiest time of my life)... i was able to deadlift 500 x 8 to 10 for the first time in my life.

now many would feel 500grams is too much for a 197 pounder but then with my results i can prove them wrong...even my arms( i consider them weakest and the most stubborn bodypart) went from 17.3 to well over 18.5

during that time i took almost all the supplements to keep my self heathy.
ASPRIN 75MG
CQ10 400MG
NIACIN 1000MG
FISHOIL PILLS - 15000MG
VITAMIN C 3000MG
VITAMIN E 800MG
MULTIVITAMIN + MULTIMINERAL 1 TAB
B COMPLEX - 1 CAP
LIV 52 (HIMALAYAS) 6 SINGLE STRENGTH TABS
AN AYURVEDIC ANTIOXIDANT BY Dr REDDY
FINPECIA 1MG EVERY OTHER DAY
TAMOXIFEN CITRATE 10MG
LETROZOLE 2.5/WEEK
HCG - 1000iu/week single shot.
PROBIOTIC CAP TWICE DAILY

i still eat the same amount of food and supplements even now when i am off cycle.. and after 2n half months i am still 225 at around 12 to 13 percent and my lifting poundages are more or less around 90 percent of what they were.... i think it has a lot to with the diet

we as bodybuilders have to think about two things
1 Gain muscle while on cycle
2 Mentain the muscle while off
and keep on repeating the process over and over...
for this to happen i think one has to stay on an excellent diet at all times, so that you donot loose on your lifting poundages which means you Will almost mentain your muscle mass when off.

initially it was difficult for me to eat that amount of protien but mark my words .... practice makes you perfect.... but no matter what i kept on eating and eating 500 grams of protien daily and i can proudly say is eating 500 grams of protien is easy for me now...so i guess if eating so much protien is so important why not make it one of your bad bad habbit..... and then they say habbits dont die easy..lol..

 

[Mega Squat]

Well, to gain a lot of good mass.. you need genetics, diet, consistent good training, then the steroids play a role only after the first 3 are taken care of.

I know way to many guys who run triple the dose of some national level competitors and look like they have worked out for a month in their life, because they have no idea how to eat or train.

I know a 23 year old kid who has ran 12 cycles and has gone up to 4 grams of week.. He is at the bar every weekend and trains like a pussy. He is about 5'10 190 lbs and 12% body fat.

 

[Tough Old Man]

William Llewellyn says that the ultimate mass building cycle is Test, Tren, and Anadrol. I know this is a contentious subject that has probably been discussed many times, but doing a search to pull it out is difficult.

I know that Test and Deca with a Dbol kickoff is a traditional favorite as well. But, if you look at the other information, Anadrol does not allow you to keep gains and Dbol is not much better.

Masteron, Anavar, Equipose, and Primobolan maintain gains. It seems like a cycle of Test, Deca or Tren, and either Primobolan or Masteron makes more sense - you get the mass and can keep more.

I know I'm missing something in the biochemistry but I wanted some opinions about this to clear it up for me.

Don't you know by now that all your going to get here is eat and don't do more then 250mgs of an anabolic.

 

[b-boy]

Don't you know by now that all your going to get here is eat and don't do more then 250mgs of an anabolic.

where in this thread did someone say don't do more that 250mgs of an anabolic??? im confused??

 

[Tough Old Man]

where in this thread did someone say don't do more that 250mgs of an anabolic??? im confused??

Sorry dude I was being sarcastic.

I just believe these sites are meant to help answer questions and not avoid them if you know the answer to the question. The poster ask a question on which cycle makes most sense and he gets an answer on nutrition. I would hope most have the nutrition, training and recovery down before even asking such a question.


The poster sent me a PM and I gave him my answer via PM.

 

[plang]

Sorry dude I was being sarcastic.

I just believe these sites are meant to help answer questions and not avoid them if you know the answer to the question. The poster ask a question on which cycle makes most sense and he gets an answer on nutrition. I would hope most have the nutrition, training and recovery down before even asking such a question.


The poster sent me a PM and I gave him my answer via PM.

For 99% of people the dose they take or what combo of drugs they take isn't there problem....it usually boils down to diet and/or training. There is no ultimate mass building cycle. Drugs help u recover from workouts and assimilate more food (or retain more muscle on less food) to a certain degree it doesn't matter if ur taking test with deca or test with tren....what's going to dictate your gains is your diet and training. That the point. The OP even admitted his diet has sucked in the past.

 

[Elvia1023]

Sorry dude I was being sarcastic.

I just believe these sites are meant to help answer questions and not avoid them if you know the answer to the question. The poster ask a question on which cycle makes most sense and he gets an answer on nutrition. I would hope most have the nutrition, training and recovery down before even asking such a question.


The poster sent me a PM and I gave him my answer via PM.

Thats just the thing. Most don't have the knowledge or put the effort into their nutrition. They think about the drugs. There is no definate answer to the question but everything BB boy (and most others) has stated is true. Food is the answer.

Anyone could throw back a great mass cycle. Guess what Test, Tren and Adrol is amazing. But so is Test, Deca and Dbol and Test, Deca and Tbol... the lis is endless. But for someone to truly learn the answer should always come back to food... that is key.

 

[Cosmicdrifter]

The confusion comes in when you see people agonizing over whether to add Winstrol and get dry joints or add Deca and lube the joints. We know that Tren is 3 to 5 times more anabolic than Test.

I've been reading books on nutrition and vitamins since 1970, so I know how protein, complex carbohydrates, and insulin are linked. I was on the Atkins diet in 1978. More than anything, I understand that HDL is, along with genetics, the strongest link to longevity - so I understand the value of mono-saturated fats.

I just finished my first cycle in 8 years (did not do my first until I was 59) and I gained 28 pounds. My arms went from 14 1/2 to 18 and you cannot pinch an inch on my stomach. Don't have a six pack, but that will happen next cycle. I made this progress on about 3000 to 3500 calories a day and about 150-200grams of protein.

I know there are many people on this board that are big and ripped, but my guess is that 80% are like me - just trying to look good in a swimming suit. And when I say good, I mean you get attention. That is vain, but hey, I'm here in Vanity Central so I don't guess I have to apologize for that.

So, as result of this thread I'm going to up my calories and protein next cycle. I eat mostly clean, but I live in the south and don't want to look like Arnold so fried chicken, biscuits and gravy, and a waffle from the Waffle House creeps into the old diet every so often.

But if the steroids are mostly immaterial - why is there such a thing as a cutting cycle where certain steroids are prescribed?

 

[b-boy]

The confusion comes in when you see people agonizing over whether to add Winstrol and get dry joints or add Deca and lube the joints. We know that Tren is 3 to 5 times more anabolic than Test.

I've been reading books on nutrition and vitamins since 1970, so I know how protein, complex carbohydrates, and insulin are linked. I was on the Atkins diet in 1978. More than anything, I understand that HDL is, along with genetics, the strongest link to longevity - so I understand the value of mono-saturated fats.

I just finished my first cycle in 8 years (did not do my first until I was 59) and I gained 28 pounds. My arms went from 14 1/2 to 18 and you cannot pinch an inch on my stomach. Don't have a six pack, but that will happen next cycle. I made this progress on about 3000 to 3500 calories a day and about 150-200grams of protein.

I know there are many people on this board that are big and ripped, but my guess is that 80% are like me - just trying to look good in a swimming suit. And when I say good, I mean you get attention. That is vain, but hey, I'm here in Vanity Central so I don't guess I have to apologize for that.

So, as result of this thread I'm going to up my calories and protein next cycle. I eat mostly clean, but I live in the south and don't want to look like Arnold so fried chicken, biscuits and gravy, and a waffle from the Waffle House creeps into the old diet every so often.

But if the steroids are mostly immaterial - why is there such a thing as a cutting cycle where certain steroids are prescribed?

when in low bodyfat digits, certain AAS will give a certain cosmetic look, like masteron, and tren.

 

[Gunsmith]

to be big and ripped everybody knows that you have to take a "boat load" of insulin and HGH


I think that most guys could cut their gear usage in half if their training and diet were organized properly.

 

[Texas Ranger]

very good point,
and thats one of the reasons i follow BIG A`s advice on offseason diet,
ie AIM for eating 500 grams of protien everyday. This is best advise that worked for me,

ate around 150 grams of fats (mainly monounsaturated and omegas) and my carb intake was 225 to 300grams/day(most would think its to low) first meal, preworkout and post workout meals only and no post workout carbs on nontraining days(225grams on non training days)... but wait ...now just look at the results. which i divided into 6 meals out of which 3 were solid meals and three shakes and i drank 1 litre water with each meal.

i was around 197 at say 7 to 8 percent bodyfat at 5 feet 8 inches tall(i am a short guy lol), then went on cycle for 20 weeks ( 750mg test + 250 deca for the fist 10 weeks and then 1000mg test + 500mg for the last 10 ) and the end result was 229 at 10-11 percent (still could see my abs well clear).

did empty stomach cardio 45 mins every non training day( THIS REALLY HELPED ME CONTROLLING MY BODYFAT...and before this i never used to do it thinking its just a waste of time, but then by doing it i proved my self wrong )

its not that i have not done this cycle before but it did not yeild such great results previously.... but my last cycle worked like a charm, i kept on gaining and gaining during those 20 weeks.

my lifting poundages were increasing all the time, and i guess i never had a bad workout in those 20 weeks.( that was the happiest time of my life)... i was able to deadlift 500 x 8 to 10 for the first time in my life.

now many would feel 500grams is too much for a 197 pounder but then with my results i can prove them wrong...even my arms( i consider them weakest and the most stubborn bodypart) went from 17.3 to well over 18.5

during that time i took almost all the supplements to keep my self heathy.
ASPRIN 75MG
CQ10 400MG
NIACIN 1000MG
FISHOIL PILLS - 15000MG
VITAMIN C 3000MG
VITAMIN E 800MG
MULTIVITAMIN + MULTIMINERAL 1 TAB
B COMPLEX - 1 CAP
LIV 52 (HIMALAYAS) 6 SINGLE STRENGTH TABS
AN AYURVEDIC ANTIOXIDANT BY Dr REDDY
FINPECIA 1MG EVERY OTHER DAY
TAMOXIFEN CITRATE 10MG
LETROZOLE 2.5/WEEK
HCG - 1000iu/week single shot.
PROBIOTIC CAP TWICE DAILY

i still eat the same amount of food and supplements even now when i am off cycle.. and after 2n half months i am still 225 at around 12 to 13 percent and my lifting poundages are more or less around 90 percent of what they were.... i think it has a lot to with the diet

we as bodybuilders have to think about two things
1 Gain muscle while on cycle
2 Mentain the muscle while off
and keep on repeating the process over and over...
for this to happen i think one has to stay on an excellent diet at all times, so that you donot loose on your lifting poundages which means you Will almost mentain your muscle mass when off.

initially it was difficult for me to eat that amount of protien but mark my words .... practice makes you perfect.... but no matter what i kept on eating and eating 500 grams of protien daily and i can proudly say is eating 500 grams of protien is easy for me now...so i guess if eating so much protien is so important why not make it one of your bad bad habbit..... and then they say habbits dont die easy..lol..

Great job, bro! What was a typical day of eating like for you trying to get the 500+ grams of protein in, if you dont mind me asking?

 

[dr intensity]

Great job, bro! What was a typical day of eating like for you trying to get the 500+ grams of protein in, if you dont mind me asking?

thanks man
my meal during that time was

break fast;- 500 grams of red meat + 100-150 grams of rice

mid morning ;- 75 grams whey + 1.5 tbs peanut butter

lunch ;- 20 egg whites + 5 whole eggs + 250ml milk

pre workout ;- 75 grams of whey + 1 bowl of oats(50-60grams)

post workout ;- 75 grams of whey + 75 grams of dextrose

dinner ;- 20egg whites + 5 whole eggs + 250ml milk OR 500 grams of chicken

and 1 liter water with each meal...so around 6 liters + additional 1 liter during workout or cardio

when i first started with this meal plan i used to so superstuffed but its been like 8 to 9 months now..and i can easily eat this amount....the best trick that works for me is to eat as fast as possible...

 

[BG]

more AAS + more food = big fucking muscles
more AAS + poor diet and nutrition = a lil bit more muscle

the food part of the equation by and by is what hold people back, there was a recent thread with a guy fucking mega dosing his ass off and then was asked by emeric to post up a pick and the guy looked like he barely fucking trained, then i asked him to post up his diet and the guy was severely under eating and his diet wasn't structured well at all (he never did post up his workout routine so i can't comment on that as well) but after he posted his pics i already knew what was holding him back, the same fucking thing thats holding 90% of the guys out there back... diet! you can scream genetics all you want, if you eat good and mega dose like that guy was even the most shitty of genetic guys can get BIG! he may not be "bodybuilding pleasing" but you can be fucking big. what combo of AAS you take doesn't make or break you, eat big, train big, and take a assload of deca only and you can get fucking big! im so tired of saying this but "FOOD IS YOUR ANABOLIC"

I LOVE this!!!!!!!!! I haven't read thru all three pages, and i don't need to. B-boy you can say i till you turn blue, most aren't going to do what it takes to make a change. They want a quick fix. Guy came in my buddies store the other day asking about steriods. said he wanted to get big blah, blah, blah. It took a lot to hold my tongue because this guy was 140 or 50lbs around 5'10. NOTHING is going to help him. WHY, because he's going to continue with his poor eating habits. Sure, you get people that take drugs and make some gains. But what happens when they stop?? The lose almost all of it, then they just jump back on. smh.. Stop looking for quick fixes, and put work in at the dinner table. It took me YEARS, AND YEARS to find that secret. I'd read it for years but blew it off. Matter of fact, i tell people all the time especially when they ask what can they do but NOBODY EVER carries thru with it. They stick to the diet for a few days or wks and then stop. That tells me you don't want it bad enough.

For the record... I've been natural for almost 6yrs and im weighing 255 right now at 5'10. And i was small until my mid 20's. DIET DIET DIET DIET

 

[Kaladryn]

The confusion comes in when you see people agonizing over whether to add Winstrol and get dry joints or add Deca and lube the joints. We know that Tren is 3 to 5 times more anabolic than Test.

I've been reading books on nutrition and vitamins since 1970, so I know how protein, complex carbohydrates, and insulin are linked. I was on the Atkins diet in 1978. More than anything, I understand that HDL is, along with genetics, the strongest link to longevity - so I understand the value of mono-saturated fats.

I just finished my first cycle in 8 years (did not do my first until I was 59) and I gained 28 pounds. My arms went from 14 1/2 to 18 and you cannot pinch an inch on my stomach. Don't have a six pack, but that will happen next cycle. I made this progress on about 3000 to 3500 calories a day and about 150-200grams of protein.

I know there are many people on this board that are big and ripped, but my guess is that 80% are like me - just trying to look good in a swimming suit. And when I say good, I mean you get attention. That is vain, but hey, I'm here in Vanity Central so I don't guess I have to apologize for that.

So, as result of this thread I'm going to up my calories and protein next cycle. I eat mostly clean, but I live in the south and don't want to look like Arnold so fried chicken, biscuits and gravy, and a waffle from the Waffle House creeps into the old diet every so often.

But if the steroids are mostly immaterial - why is there such a thing as a cutting cycle where certain steroids are prescribed?

For your purposes, and especially after not using much for so long, I would suggest a longer fairly low dose cycle of just test and an AI. Especially if you are working with muscle memory.