up'ing the dose every 4 weeks?

[PsyT]

Keep gaining naturally from........getting off of testosterone? SO... at 8 weeks, I quit taking testosterone ,then I REALLY grow? You ever experience this?

Phil youre the man that cuts through all bullshit

 

[Researchstop]

Keep gaining naturally from........getting off of testosterone? SO... at 8 weeks, I quit taking testosterone ,then I REALLY grow? You ever experience this?

No that's not what I said at all. In fact, my opinions on how to cycle are nowhere on this thread. Let me take you through this point by point because it's spread across several posts and you're drawing conclusions from pieces of what I posted.

Most guys do 8-12 week cycles. Is this the best way to grow big? No, but that's another argument. And I never said I supported it as the way to cycle.

If you're already set in your ways and you're going to calculate a cycle of that length (8-12 weeks) it is better to cut it at 8 weeks because the following weeks you're wasting your AS money staying on until week 12. Most people cycling like this already know that their gains stall, this study shows why. I did not offer an alternative method that I support.

 

[PHIL HERNON]

Question

No that's not what I said at all. In fact, my opinions on how to cycle are nowhere on this thread. Let me take you through this point by point because it's spread across several posts and you're drawing conclusions from pieces of what I posted.

Most guys do 8-12 week cycles. Is this the best way to grow big? No, but that's another argument. And I never said I supported it as the way to cycle.

If you're already set in your ways and you're going to calculate a cycle of that length (8-12 weeks) it is better to cut it at 8 weeks because the following weeks you're wasting your AS money staying on until week 12.

This isn't MACRO by chance is it?

 

[Researchstop]

No, but I play Macro on TV

 

[PsyT]

he's not being cryptic enough and has a sense of humor, therefore he is not macro.

 

[Johnny Smiles]

No that's not what I said at all. In fact, my opinions on how to cycle are nowhere on this thread. Let me take you through this point by point because it's spread across several posts and you're drawing conclusions from pieces of what I posted.

Most guys do 8-12 week cycles. Is this the best way to grow big? No, but that's another argument. And I never said I supported it as the way to cycle.

If you're already set in your ways and you're going to calculate a cycle of that length (8-12 weeks) it is better to cut it at 8 weeks because the following weeks you're wasting your AS money staying on until week 12. Most people cycling like this already know that their gains stall, this study shows why. I did not offer an alternative method that I support.

up dose at week 8 and problem solved
-JS

 

[PsyT]

RS also makes money by selling PCT supplies so of course he wants to suggest you run more shorter cycles because that will improve his company's profit.

 

[dr intensity]

Yes,we as bodybuilder have to stay on most of the time,

i would suggest read tevor smith, jason mueller, drug cycle strategy, it was something like 8 weeks on and 4 weeks off.
cycles were very simple

1. Week 1 to 6 Start with some testosterone ( long ester) along with some anabolics for the

2. Then for the last 2 weeks using Test P which clears off the very fast, while the longer ester is getting cleared off the system.

3.Then you can immediately start your PCT (4 weeks off )....
now as phil has pointed out that... .....its the level of free testosterone in the body that increases the myostatin and not the muscle mass.

so after the 4 weeks (PCT)... one can restart the same cycle with same dosages .... so its 8+4+8+4+8+4+8+4 (may be you need to increase dosage every 4 cycle).....
now if we add 8+4+8+4+8+4+8+4 = 8 months on 4 months off

whereas with straight long duration cycle... you will have to increase the dosages every 8 weeks which means higher sideffects...the other problem with increase in dosage is that change in response will decrease with increase in dosage, ie That is, the change you get with 2g ew is less than the change from zero to 1 g per week. The change between 2 g per week and 3 is likely almost nothing.(learnt this from Dr pangloss)

then another arguement that is quiet famous "increase in muscle mass means more receptors so the dosage has to increase"..... again Dr pangloss gave a very good answer to counter this as..... at 2.5 g ew in a 100 kg bodybuilder, the free test is about 50x higher than the affinity. Even if receptors double, the concentration is 25x the dissociation constant (kd). A 10x concentration above the Kd is plenty in most cases to be in the saturated range.

 

[PHIL HERNON]

Well

Yes,we as bodybuilder have to stay on most of the time,

i would suggest read tevor smith, jason mueller, drug cycle strategy, it was something like 8 weeks on and 4 weeks off.
cycles were very simple

1. Week 1 to 6 Start with some testosterone ( long ester) along with some anabolics for the

2. Then for the last 2 weeks using Test P which clears off the very fast, while the longer ester is getting cleared off the system.

3.Then you can immediately start your PCT (4 weeks off )....
now as phil has pointed out that... .....its the level of free testosterone in the body that increases the myostatin and not the muscle mass.

so after the 4 weeks (PCT)... one can restart the same cycle with same dosages .... so its 8+4+8+4+8+4+8+4 (may be you need to increase dosage every 4 cycle).....
now if we add 8+4+8+4+8+4+8+4 = 8 months on 4 months off

whereas with straight long duration cycle... you will have to increase the dosages every 8 weeks which means higher sideffects...the other problem with increase in dosage is that change in response will decrease with increase in dosage, ie That is, the change you get with 2g ew is less than the change from zero to 1 g per week. The change between 2 g per week and 3 is likely almost nothing.(learnt this from Dr pangloss)

then another arguement that is quiet famous "increase in muscle mass means more receptors so the dosage has to increase"..... again Dr pangloss gave a very good answer to counter this as..... at 2.5 g ew in a 100 kg bodybuilder, the free test is about 50x higher than the affinity. Even if receptors double, the concentration is 25x the dissociation constant (kd). A 10x concentration above the Kd is plenty in most cases to be in the saturated range.

I have my clients in countries that steroids are legal, do it in a similar way.......but it is not a rigid 8 weeks or 4 weeks......they go by other markers........at that point it is either up, lower, or PCT.

 

[Johnny Smiles]

I have my clients in countries that steroids are legal, do it in a similar way.......but it is not a rigid 8 weeks or 4 weeks......they go by other markers........at that point it is either up, lower, or PCT.

VERY good answer Phil. better than i could have said it and i was thinkin pretty hard lol.
its too bad all these equations and strategies and intensely designed cycles have little to no influence in the real world. there are a million other things to worry about or to monitor other than myostatin.
-JS

 

[almard]

up dose at week 8 and problem solved
-JS

Or you could change the compound...Anabolics.....

 

[PHIL HERNON]

Well

Or you could change the compound...Anabolics.....

It really doesn't work well just changing the compounds.......

 

[almard]

It really doesn't work well just changing the compounds.......

YOu know, just onther opition than Increase the Test doses....

what do you think?

 

[dr intensity]

I have my clients in countries that steroids are legal, do it in a similar way.......but it is not a rigid 8 weeks or 4 weeks......they go by other markers........at that point it is either up, lower, or PCT.

i was just giving an example of a cycle....
these debates
1. high volume training versus low volume training
2. Keto diet versus carb cycling diets
3. short cycles versus long cycles...

someone can always come up with some kind of arguement against any particular philosophy..... but in reality every philosophy has worked for someone or the other,

all i am trying to say is one needs to know what to expect and how to extract from the philosophy he or she uses...... the only way to do this is to stick to one particular style and then master the style...

then we can control the outcome rather than the particular system controlling the outcome....

 

[KillerStack]

This isn't MACRO by chance is it?

I'm pretty sure it's "Ulter", could be wrong though. Macro and Ulter used to really push lipoic acid (Glucorell) on forums. Then there was some type of legal issue. Don't know what happened after that, if they continued selling it or what.

Marketers of Dietary Supplements Ordered to Halt False Claims About Diabetes Prevention and Treatment

 

[tkav1980]

Phil

Would a blast/cruise type of cycling work as well as coming off? im not talking about at 250mg cruise im talking in the range of 100mg/wk for 4 weeks before going back up to lets say 500mg/wk

 

[BostonFan]

Would a blast/cruise type of cycling work as well as coming off? im not talking about at 250mg cruise im talking in the range of 100mg/wk for 4 weeks before going back up to lets say 500mg/wk

Good question. I'm curious about this also.

I'm currently on week 7 of a 14 week cycle of Test-E, 500mg/wk. Haven't slowed down or hit any barriers yet. When I do I'll change up my training a little bit and add more food in before I bother upping my dose.

 

[dr intensity]

many times i have been accused to mentioning high doses..... i just want to make this clear ... that i do not advocate high doses....

i was just giving my opinion on the myostatin study...
my point was ... if a 200 pounder is eating 500 grams of protien + 400grams of carbs and 125 grams of healthy fats.... does a cycle of 500mg test for 8 weeks and gains 15 pounds and plateaus.

at this point what is the guy supposed to do in order to continue his muscle gains...

should he increase his calories, go from 500grams of protien to 650grams
400 grams of carbs to 700grams and 125 grams of fats to 250 grams of fats...

now what i am trying to convey here is that we cannot over expect from an already excellent diet.

now if the guy ups his dosage ... will he able to continue making gains in muscle mass ... yes... but the sides(increased risk of hypogonadism+ increased haematocrit levels any many others) will increase or start appearing too...

but again we as bodybuilders need a drug cycle system(same as training systems and dieting systems)...... with which we can make muscle gains with relatively safe dosages( dosages with which we can still stay healthy)...or rather the need to increase the dose is minimized as much as possible....

long back trevor smith made some great points.... on short cycles... and i modified it according to my needs..
week 1 to 6 long Estered test + some Anabolic
week 1 to 6 HCG 1000iu/week +A.I
week 7 to 8 test P

week 9 to 12 clomid + nolvadex hypothalamus pitutary awakening therapy.(and then you don loose too much muscle in those 4 weeks... if some is too scared.)

what i proposed was if a person does this kind of a cycle there will be a less need to up the dosage therefore a better drug cycle system as campared to increasing the dosage every 4 th 6th or 8 th week...

trevor smith himself mentioned in his article ....that instead of being on straight for 8 months( with ever increasing dosage) out of 12 months
same amount of ON time can be achieved while being ...8+4+8+4+8+4+8+4......now 4 x (8+4) = 8 months on and 4 months off.....

but again i repeat ... that the need to up the dosage with 8weeks on+4 weeks off style will be less than campared to 8 months staight on and 4 months off........

maybe the person would need to up the dosage every 4th or 5th cycle...but untill that time the person has gained a good amount of muscle with relative safety....

 

[kid1dakota]

Not trying to get into bro science but I would just lower the dose down each week at a good rate so its not a killer drop.

WHY ARE YOU ON HERE AGAIN ANSWERING DRUG QUESTIONS!!!!!!??????

You had not done a cycle yet at 19 years old 4-3-2010
http://www.professionalmuscle.com/forums/professional-muscle-forum/58522-d-bol-test-e-questions.html
He went back and deleted the original question above^^^^


Drug advice being givenby a 19 year old with no cycle experience or proper education.everything from prohormones ,HGH,PCT,HCG,A.I.'s,lab reviews,esters,doses,fat burners,cycle lengths,half- lives,orals:

7-25-2010 http://www.professionalmuscle.com/f...93-hgh-lab-movie-test-my-self.html#post824263
7-25-2010 http://www.professionalmuscle.com/forums/beginners-forum/62362-mdrol-test-c.html#post824496
7-17-2010 http://www.professionalmuscle.com/f...84-those-you-who-use-aromasin.html#post820087
6-24-2010 http://www.professionalmuscle.com/f...44-how-crucial-would-hcg-here.html#post807156
6-24-2010 http://www.professionalmuscle.com/f...-would-you-rate-qv-products-2.html#post807511
6-21-2010 http://www.professionalmuscle.com/f...61523-puffy-nips-gyno-end-pct.html#post805899
6-15-2010 http://www.professionalmuscle.com/f...-bulking-short-esters-cutting.html#post802582
5-27-2010 http://www.professionalmuscle.com/f...-cyle-you-have-gotten-results.html#post791013
4-21-2010 http://www.professionalmuscle.com/f...scle-forum/59173-blast-past-4.html#post769090
4-17-2010 http://www.professionalmuscle.com/f...orum/59075-first-timer-my-pct.html#post766546
5-13-2010 http://www.professionalmuscle.com/f...cle-forum/60090-eca-without-e.html#post782355
4-12-2010 http://www.professionalmuscle.com/f...orum/59075-first-timer-my-pct.html#post766546
5-5-2010 http://www.professionalmuscle.com/f...lf-cycle-no-product-help-help.html#post777399
5-10-2010 http://www.professionalmuscle.com/f...forum/59957-2-quick-questions.html#post780243
5-10-2010 http://www.professionalmuscle.com/forums/beginners-forum/59955-first-real-cycle.html#post780227
5-8-2010 http://www.professionalmuscle.com/f.../59830-tbol-only-cycle-review.html#post778987
5-7-2010 http://www.professionalmuscle.com/f.../59830-tbol-only-cycle-review.html#post778634
5-7-2010 http://www.professionalmuscle.com/f...garding-how-do-hgh-injections.html#post778397
5-6-2010 http://www.professionalmuscle.com/f.../59830-tbol-only-cycle-review.html#post778185

Let me clarify myself guys.This kid is 19/20 years old and weighs about 170lbs! he had a thread a few months ago asking questions about his first cycle.
Everyone said to wait and he got all pissy and disappeared for awhile.

Now he is back answering questions all over the board related to hormones and dosages,A.I's,etc...

He also had a thread looking for a gyno surgeon!?!? So you went and did your first cycle and need Gyno surgery now??

ironically,you gave advice to a guy with gyno asking about A.I.'s and you told him "lower the test to safer levels" well ,even HRT dosages aromatize and exacerbate or cause gyno kid..Yet your sitting with a set of titties after one cycle giving advice on how to avoid gyno!!!
YOU ARE NOT QAULIFIED THROUGH PROPER EDUCATION OR PERSONAL EXPERIENCE TO BE OFFERING DRUG ADVICE YOUNG FELLA!!!

You should be banned!!

 

[juicin]

Not trying to get into bro science but I would just lower the dose down each week at a good rate so its not a killer drop.

How is it "bro science" when you suggest in the BLAST FROM THE PAST thread kid1dakota posted that "tapering is what the doctors suggest" ?

Which doctors have suggested this