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VERY tricky GH timing protocol question.

kilsong

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Jun 7, 2012
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I've been on 2iu TP Black Tops every night before bed for 7 weeks. My goal is to get to 4 iu daily.
The lathergy forced me to do them at nite before bed.
In the last week, I've uped to to 2.5 iu before bed. So far so good.
I want to follow conventional wisdom and do 2iu early am and then do some fasted cardio. And the remainder 2 iu later in the day.
My only problem is I work til 7 pm four days a week.. I'm in bed SLEEPING by 730 pm.
Additionaly, I go to the gym between 2-3 AM six days a week..
I would have just injected 2iu around 7 pm and my question is when to to take the other 2iu.
My goals are fat loss and new cell muscles.

I'm also running DHB about 400 /week...NPP/300 week.. and test cyp about 400/ week.
Any and all suggestions would be appreciated..
Thanks.
 
I've been on 2iu TP Black Tops every night before bed for 7 weeks. My goal is to get to 4 iu daily.
The lathergy forced me to do them at nite before bed.
In the last week, I've uped to to 2.5 iu before bed. So far so good.
I want to follow conventional wisdom and do 2iu early am and then do some fasted cardio. And the remainder 2 iu later in the day.
My only problem is I work til 7 pm four days a week.. I'm in bed SLEEPING by 730 pm.
Additionaly, I go to the gym between 2-3 AM six days a week..
I would have just injected 2iu around 7 pm and my question is when to to take the other 2iu.
My goals are fat loss and new cell muscles.

I'm also running DHB about 400 /week...NPP/300 week.. and test cyp about 400/ week.
Any and all suggestions would be appreciated..
Thanks.
I do think you're overthinking this. If you want to use this protocol, there's no reason why you cannot pin the 2iU in the AM before training even though it's only a few hours later. The rhGH passes through the circulation very, very quickly and its primary action is to increase cIGF-1 from the liver. Timing stuff like this is more relevant for peptides (where it still doesn't matter all that much). Just follow your protocol, titrate up to what you're comfortable with, and let the IGF-1 do its magic.
 
Pin when you go to bed. Pin when you wake up. You sleep at least 5 hours right ?


It's Tricky to rock a rhyme, to rock a rhyme that's right on time
It's Tricky
 
This isn't tricky.

2iu pre bed/2iu upon waking-pre workout
4iu pre bed
4iu pre workout
4iu post workout

These are pretty much all your options.
 
Here is the time course of circulating blood hGH post-5iU injection (subq- white circles, jet-inject-black dots):

Pharmacodynamics-serum-time-rhGH-subq-vs-jet.png

4.5 hrs+ between subq injections is fine for 5iU subq. Cmax may be reached more quickly with 2iU.

Verhagen, A., Ebels, J. T., Jonkman, J. H. G., & Dogterom, A. A. (1995). Pharmacokinetics and pharmacodynamics of a single dose of recombinant human growth hormone after subcutaneous administration by jet-injection: comparison with conventional needle-injection. European Journal of Clinical Pharmacology, 49(1-2). doi:10.1007/bf00192361
 
Here is the time course of circulating blood hGH post-5iU injection (subq- white circles, jet-inject-black dots):

View attachment 139073

4.5 hrs+ between subq injections is fine for 5iU subq. Cmax may be reached more quickly with 2iU.

Verhagen, A., Ebels, J. T., Jonkman, J. H. G., & Dogterom, A. A. (1995). Pharmacokinetics and pharmacodynamics of a single dose of recombinant human growth hormone after subcutaneous administration by jet-injection: comparison with conventional needle-injection. European Journal of Clinical Pharmacology, 49(1-2). doi:10.1007/bf00192361
This graph is a great illustration of why years ago I was a big fan of slin+gh pre and then slin post as well and made the argument that GH pre and post is micromanagement that is unnecessary. To me...this also shows why GH could be more beneficial pre workout rather than post.


*Humalog 5-10iu pre
*GH 2-5iu pre
Intra workout feeding.
*Humalog 5-10iu post.
Post workout feeding.
 
This graph is a great illustration of why years ago I was a big fan of slin+gh pre and then slin post as well and made the argument that GH pre and post is micromanagement that is unnecessary. To me...this also shows why GH could be more beneficial pre workout rather than post.
Agreed on all counts.
 
I just pin all of it before going to bed. If lethargy is a problem why risk being less than 100% at work when you can avoid it by just pinning it before bed, waking up refreshed and being energetic at work
 
Thank u all for the suggestions.
Yeah... Definitely over thinking it.
Tomorrow nite I'm gonna just hit 4iu before bed.
Maybe switch it in the future and try 2iu before bed.. Then 2iu post.
 
Thank u all for the suggestions.
Yeah... Definitely over thinking it.
Tomorrow nite I'm gonna just hit 4iu before bed.
Maybe switch it in the future and try 2iu before bed.. Then 2iu post.
I don't know if you are understanding this completely. What are your goals? Are you dieting or trying to get larger?

Larger: One bolus dose.
Leaner: Dose it twice and dose it so the cascade can stimulate fat burning. 2iu pre cardo or pre workout or both if you do them separately.
 
This graph is a great illustration of why years ago I was a big fan of slin+gh pre and then slin post as well and made the argument that GH pre and post is micromanagement that is unnecessary. To me...this also shows why GH could be more beneficial pre workout rather than post.


*Humalog 5-10iu pre
*GH 2-5iu pre
Intra workout feeding.
*Humalog 5-10iu post.
Post workout feeding.
I agree with you. Now if you had supposedly legit igf-1, where would you fit that in?
 
I don't know if you are understanding this completely. What are your goals? Are you dieting or trying to get larger?

Larger: One bolus dose.
Leaner: Dose it twice and dose it so the cascade can stimulate fat burning. 2iu pre cardo or pre workout or both if you do them separately.
You’re overthinking. Just inject the drugs it literally doesn’t matter as long as you don’t go hypo and die from the insulin.

Lethargy is almost always a side beyond 2iu. In that case it’s almost universally agreed on to inject total dose of GH before sleep. This is just common sense. No fuckin chart needed bud
 
I pin once; does it make a difference, fuck if I know; my IGF was high pinning only once in the past… so no it doesn’t IMO
 
I agree with you. Now if you had supposedly legit igf-1, where would you fit that in?
IGF-1 + hGH >> hGH or IGF-1 separately. Administration of both tends to cancel out the negatives of each reciprocal (e.g., hypoglycemia vs. hyperglycemia). People worry too much about timing. If you can afford both, use both and you'll actually get growth (hypertrophy) and lipolysis.
 
You’re overthinking. Just inject the drugs it literally doesn’t matter as long as you don’t go hypo and die from the insulin.

Lethargy is almost always a side beyond 2iu. In that case it’s almost universally agreed on to inject total dose of GH before sleep. This is just common sense. No fuckin chart needed bud
Sorry, if I know a cascade of fat burning and other things happen with a shot of GH and I am trying to burn fat at the most efficient pace, I am going to be injecting GH prior to workout(s) to maximize these events and want it to occur more often than once daily. You guys are calling science 'message board bullshit'. Besides, if you simply look at the graph - you see a large several hour time frame GH is active for and having all those mechanisms occurring during your workout and post workout feeding window(with or without) insulin is what I subscribe to.

In other scenarios, there's no need to get meticulous just do it once a day in a large dose - or 10iu MWF/EOD and be done with it. The only time I would use it pre workout then is if you legit preferred it for whatever reason.

And for you guys running larger doses..if anyone still does that - IMO it does matter if you break your shots up. There are ways 10iu can go further spread over shots than in one bolus dose..and vice versa.
 
I agree with you. Now if you had supposedly legit igf-1, where would you fit that in?
I'll defer to someone else here as I don't and won't use IGF-1. In the past, I considered Des and Mgf.
 

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