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Vets: BB Diet back in the day

Well everyone feels shitty on a low carb diet but they just don't seem to realize this/admit it.

Being in true ketosis is another story, that might actually feel good. (general feeling, doesn't correlate with health) I'm talking about TRUE ketosis here though which requires (other than no carbs), very little protein as well.

A theoretical true keto-diet of 2000 kcals would be something like 200 grams of fat, 50 gr protein and no carbs. Not the protein-infested "keto" diets you see nowadays. They might get you in ketosis up and on (like any caloric deficit will) but that's not full bore ketosis.

Why the low protein? Where is the evidence for your claim?

From what I understand, once your body is fully adapted to ketosis, your body won't waste protein by turning it into glucose except for very limited amounts.
 
Your body is never fully adapted to ketosis because it's not a natural state to be in. It's considered starvation, for emergency situations only. Except of course if used for something like epilepsy control.

If you want to stay in ketosis all the time, the high fat, no carb, low protein will be necessary. Otherwise you go in, out, in, out ... of ketosis.

Of course that kind of diet will still work if in a caloric deficit. But you will feel it :D
 
Your body has the capability to turn amino acids into glucose in certain situations.


Why the low protein? Where is the evidence for your claim?

From what I understand, once your body is fully adapted to ketosis, your body won't waste protein by turning it into glucose except for very limited amounts.
 
Your body can absolutely go into ketosis with a gram per lb of protein. Easily. This may not be the doctor recommendation for childhood epilepsy but it's easily done. The change when finally going in is unmistakable... not sure if you were trying to say you won't. It takes only 2-3 days for me to enter ketosis with no direct carb sources, 220g protein and the rest fat. Roughly 30%p 5%c 65% f all said and done.

The gluconeogenesis from protein is uncommon and will not pull you out of ketosis with something along the lines of 1g/lb.
 
To add... the efficiency of gluconeogenesis from amino acids is VERY poor. It is less optimal than ketosis, which is a comfortable state. The only thing that needs carbs really constantly is the brain iirc, and the minor carbs you cant avoid are sufficient. The body will not turn to amino acids for glucose as a preference to ketosis.
 
And it is definitely not a state of starvation. To say the body would convert aminos when given a 2400 cal diet of 65% fats, or enter a state of starvation, is somewhat ridiculous. That's simply not efficient. And the body is a machine of survival.
 
Emeric needs to chime in on this......:)
 
Your body can absolutely go into ketosis with a gram per lb of protein. Easily. This may not be the doctor recommendation for childhood epilepsy but it's easily done. The change when finally going in is unmistakable... not sure if you were trying to say you won't. It takes only 2-3 days for me to enter ketosis with no direct carb sources, 220g protein and the rest fat. Roughly 30%p 5%c 65% f all said and done.

The gluconeogenesis from protein is uncommon and will not pull you out of ketosis with something along the lines of 1g/lb.
Your body converts about 10% of all protein via gluconeogenesis reguardless of pro/carb intake
 
Your body can absolutely go into ketosis with a gram per lb of protein. Easily. This may not be the doctor recommendation for childhood epilepsy but it's easily done. The change when finally going in is unmistakable... not sure if you were trying to say you won't. It takes only 2-3 days for me to enter ketosis with no direct carb sources, 220g protein and the rest fat. Roughly 30%p 5%c 65% f all said and done.

The gluconeogenesis from protein is uncommon and will not pull you out of ketosis with something along the lines of 1g/lb.

Of course. Your body also goes into ketosis on 400 gr of carbs if you are in a caloric deficit. Dieting down = entering ketosis on and off. My point was being in what they call "deep ketosis", as in actually staying there the whole time and not be jumping in and out, in and out, ... as you will on a diet you say here.

Also to be clear, I never said such a diet won't work since it will if it's a caloric deficit. But personally I would rather be entering ketosis as little as possible (high carbs), or be in it all the time (real keto diet). That's all I was saying.

The rate of gluconeogenesis is supposedly 4-5 gr per hour btw.
 
Also since I only just saw the exact rations you gave up, those are Mauro Di Pasquale's Anabolic Diet starting ratios. Di Pasquale has stated several times (don't remember if it's in the book as well) that the goal of his diet is NOT to be in ketosis. Just saying.
 
When i stayed/trained in Santa Monica in the late seventies(i'm 55 now) a lot of the guys ate breakfast at a small diner on second ave. around the corner from Golds.Pretty normal diet really,except the portions were larger.6-8 eggs,double order toast,bacon and lots of black coffee.A lot of us also used to go to an all you can eat buffet until they wised up and posted a 'no bodybuilders allowed' sign! I would say protein and carb ratios were pretty close to even back then.Around 40-40-20 maybe?
 
From Di Pasquale himself

NM: That was the principle which Tim and TC used when putting together the Biotest line. Tell me, you were one of the first proponents of the high-fat/low-carb diet. What's the main difference between the Anabolic Diet that you developed and the presently popular Ketogenic Diet?

MD: When I wrote the Anabolic Diet, I wasn't trying to present an academic hypothesis. I wanted to write about something that would work. These days, there seems to be a lot of emphasis on ketosis, but it's all pretty useless. Staying in a ketogenic state basically means that you haven't adapted to the diet. If ketones are being excreted in the urine (which is how you determine ketosis) by using "keto-sticks," then you're not utilizing ketones for energy very efficiently. Someone who is optimally using fat for fuel should not have ketones in their urine.

NM: Whoa, let me back this up for a second. So what you're saying is, if one were efficiently using ketones for energy and lipolysis on a carb depleted diet...it shouldn't produce a state of ketosis?

MD: That's correct. If you've adapted fully to the diet.

NM: So it's not preferable to be in ketosis if the objective is fat loss?

MD: That's right. This is where I differ from everybody else and why the Anabolic Diet is so effective where others are not. Ketosis is very catabolic! First of all, the Anabolic Diet keeps you at 30 grams of carbs a day, five days a week. That keeps you out of ketosis, but the body begins to adapt to using fat for fuel. On the weekend, you can eat as many carbs as you like. That's the anabolic phase, but the body is still in a fatburning mode. Once there's a spillover of carb calories to fat storage, after no more than 48 hours, you go back to 30 carbohydrate grams a day. Basically, this is meant to be a diet that can be followed easily. Who wants to wake up at night to eat or spend each hour of the day watching exactly how many calories you eat? What's interesting is that I've found that triglyceride levels rise on the days when high carbs are ingested.
 

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