Vicaine and suboxone

[Jimmy14]

Only thing i would be worried about is going in withdraw cause subs are opiate blocker so be careful

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[makaveli25]

How can people say suboxone is worse then harder opiates. I was addicted to oxy cotin years ago it was way more dangerous and addicting. Withdraws were absolutely horrific. The amount of money and time I wasted on those things. I was a physical and mental wreck all the time. I was bloated felt like shit and I could never stay awake. My tolerance sky rocketed.

I've been taking a small dose of suboxone for a few years. 2-3 mg split up throughout the day. I feel really good most of the time. I have a great job and a loving wife. Suboxone too me is more like an anti depressant. I never felt great when I was completely clean. Suboxone has helped me live a pretty normal life. The best part the less you take the better you feel there is no tolerance issue. The doctors prescribe me a huge dose and in only use a fraction of it. I have enough to last me years.

 

[asteelz]

Your still addicted to opiates. What do you think will happen when you stop taking suboxone after several years of use ? The withdraws from suboxone are just as bad as any other opiate, only take longer since the half life is longer. When I got clean years ago, I traded my sub habit back to heroin because the detox was EASIER from dope then subs.

 

[tenny]

You're completely talking out of your ass man. In no way shape or form is it worse than heroin. It can be titrated down to wean somebody off (try doing that with heroin of varying potency not to mention different fentanyl analogues synthesized in china mixed in). It is taken in the last non-addictive way possible (sublingual) unlike heroin which is typically smoked (tar) or snorted (powder) or injected (either tar or powder).

You're 100% wrong Tenny.

NO.....!!!!

YOU ARE.....

suboxone is MANY MANY times more addictive that straight up heroin...

**EDIT**, ive seen first HAND how it effects people...

sub is synthetic heroin.....formulated by mutli-BILLION dollar pharm
companies.....

ask how many people on this board are using sub....????
and for how long....???.....because that's the scam....
get off the H....and get on our H...!!!!.....

its the perfect scam....

I know people who have been on it for over 10 YEARS!!!!!
it LEGAL HEROIN!!!!! (with a script)....
1 film of sub goes for 10$....on black market.....I know people who pay
their fucking mortgage....because they get 90 a month....and they ALL
sell the very first day...!!!!....

 

[laxfan24]

Comparing suboxone and heroin and saying which one is better or worse is just silly. Switching from one to another is like switching seats on the Titanic. I have heard the rationale that with suboxone, people are no longer engaging in the behaviors that they did with heroin/oxys(ie lying, stealing, cheating, IV etc.) However, with all long term opiate use/abuse you're going to have to pay the piper at some point. I've seen guys titrate down and get off 1-2mg dose and withdraw physically for a month. It's rough to watch. It's called a maintenance med because you're maintaining your addiction. I've had sponsees argue that it come from a doctor, i tell them to ask their doctor if they've studied the long term sides and if hes taken it then come off. 2mg would fuck me up. I was strung out on oxys/heroin for 5 years. I've been sober since March of 2008. I think the drug shines when used for 7 to 10 days to help with acute withdrawal symptoms, then get off. It's not a long term solution.

 

[tenny]

Comparing suboxone and heroin and saying which one is better or worse is just silly. Switching from one to another is like switching seats on the Titanic. I have heard the rationale that with suboxone, people are no longer engaging in the behaviors that they did with heroin/oxys(ie lying, stealing, cheating, IV etc.) However, with all long term opiate use/abuse you're going to have to pay the piper at some point. I've seen guys titrate down and get off 1-2mg dose and withdraw physically for a month. It's rough to watch. It's called a maintenance med because you're maintaining your addiction. I've had sponsees argue that it come from a doctor, i tell them to ask their doctor if they've studied the long term sides and if hes taken it then come off. 2mg would fuck me up. I was strung out on oxys/heroin for 5 years. I've been sober since March of 2008. I think the drug shines when used for 7 to 10 days to help with acute withdrawal symptoms, then get off. It's not a long term solution.

of course.....because they know they will get their RELOAD every 30 days...

most of the time....covered by your insurance...!!!!!! (if you have good ins)

and YES....sub should only be used for 30 days following a opiate addiction...
then cut off...

I will say to any one wanting an easy way out.....there isn't ONE....

 

[makaveli25]

I've had withdraws from suboxone methadone and oxy cotin. Methadone was the worst followed by oxies. Suboxone isn't as intense but it lasts a long time.

I plan on micro dosing sub for the distant future. It doesn't fuck up my health I feel great. I get 12 mgs I use 2-3. It's maintenance. Same thing as trt imo. I realize it's an addiction. Try coming of trt, anti depressants, benzos, sleep meds. All have similar consequences.

 

[Matsuo Munefusa]

NO.....!!!!

YOU ARE.....

suboxone is MANY MANY times more addictive that straight up heroin...

**EDIT**, ive seen first HAND how it effects people...

sub is synthetic heroin.....formulated by mutli-BILLION dollar pharm
companies.....

ask how many people on this board are using sub....????
and for how long....???.....because that's the scam....
get off the H....and get on our H...!!!!.....

its the perfect scam....

I know people who have been on it for over 10 YEARS!!!!!
it LEGAL HEROIN!!!!! (with a script)....
1 film of sub goes for 10$....on black market.....I know people who pay
their fucking mortgage....because they get 90 a month....and they ALL
sell the very first day...!!!!....

**EDIT**

How many people have you lost this year from subuxone? I never lost a single person in my life from subs. The body count for people that loved me and I loved them is up around a dozen now from heroin. THREE THIS FUCKING YEAR.

And you're telling me subuxone is worse than heroin?

I would pray to goddamn fucking satan himself if it would help my friends be on subuxone today and not underground.

 

[ubermensch]

How can people say suboxone is worse then harder opiates. I was addicted to oxy cotin years ago it was way more dangerous and addicting. Withdraws were absolutely horrific. The amount of money and time I wasted on those things. I was a physical and mental wreck all the time. I was bloated felt like shit and I could never stay awake. My tolerance sky rocketed.

I've been taking a small dose of suboxone for a few years. 2-3 mg split up throughout the day. I feel really good most of the time. I have a great job and a loving wife. Suboxone too me is more like an anti depressant. I never felt great when I was completely clean. Suboxone has helped me live a pretty normal life. The best part the less you take the better you feel there is no tolerance issue. The doctors prescribe me a huge dose and in only use a fraction of it. I have enough to last me years.

If someone says suboxen is worse than heroin or whatever i have hard time believing they have any experience. Subs don't get you high like heroin or oxys, or even tabs or nubain. I forget to take my subs all the time and i promise you that never happened with hard drugs. The withrawl is uncomfortable and last longer but the withdrawl from the other stuff had me puking laying in bed for days like you see in movies and tv. Same here too, they had me at 3 a day and all ever take is half a strip a day and maybe an extra quarter on days I'm tired or don't feel like training. I've got my visits down to every other month and could go every 4 if was allowed.

Steroids have been the hardest thing for me to come off of. I'm happy to be off all the hard drugs but I still miss a good cycle

 

[kinglewy]

If someone says suboxen is worse than heroin or whatever i have hard time believing they have any experience. Subs don't get you high like heroin or oxys, or even tabs or nubain. I forget to take my subs all the time and i promise you that never happened with hard drugs. The withrawl is uncomfortable and last longer but the withdrawl from the other stuff had me puking laying in bed for days like you see in movies and tv. Same here too, they had me at 3 a day and all ever take is half a strip a day and maybe an extra quarter on days I'm tired or don't feel like training. I've got my visits down to every other month and could go every 4 if was allowed.

Steroids have been the hardest thing for me to come off of. I'm happy to be off all the hard drugs but I still miss a good cycle

I dont know if one is worse than the other I have never done either....my best friend decided to try heroin for the first time and I sat there and watched, it was black tar from the Mexicans, after the injection he immediately stood up out of the chair and said "wow" and then fell flat on his face....we had to drag him to the shower and run cold water over him as I slapped him in the face over and over, thank God he came to and regained consiuousness. But that scared me enough to never even consider trying it. Later on I noticed that the withdrawall from those on suboxone was no different than those form heroin....they seemed to feign for it the same way and I remember thinking they traded one addiction for the other

 

[sub7percent]

How can people say suboxone is worse then harder opiates. I was addicted to oxy cotin years ago it was way more dangerous and addicting. Withdraws were absolutely horrific. The amount of money and time I wasted on those things. I was a physical and mental wreck all the time. I was bloated felt like shit and I could never stay awake. My tolerance sky rocketed.



I've been taking a small dose of suboxone for a few years. 2-3 mg split up throughout the day. I feel really good most of the time. I have a great job and a loving wife. Suboxone too me is more like an anti depressant. I never felt great when I was completely clean. Suboxone has helped me live a pretty normal life. The best part the less you take the better you feel there is no tolerance issue. The doctors prescribe me a huge dose and in only use a fraction of it. I have enough to last me years.

Try quitting 16mg daily Suboxone cold turkey and you will be begging for any OxyContin withdrawal.

Also, if you od on it you are in real trouble


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[makaveli25]

Try quitting 16mg daily Suboxone cold turkey and you will be begging for any OxyContin withdrawal.

Also, if you od on it you are in real trouble


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You have to be a complete idiot to OD on subs. I have years of experience never even really nodded from them. You don't use 16 mgs. If you need to take it you use the lowest possible amount. The lower the amount the better you feel. People in the know realize 1 mg doses you get the best effect. Your tolerance never goes up. Been on it for years this way zero issues.

 

[Samson250]

**EDIT**
I would pray to goddamn fucking satan himself if it would help my friends be on subuxone today and not underground.

I'm sorry for your losses man. And your pain.

 

[Samson250]

A lot of strong feelings on this thread. I have opinions but just keeping them to myself. It's just incredible how many of us have experience, losses and first hand knowledge. I don't see right or wrong on this thread just pain and struggle.

 

[No Excuses]

If you take an opiate while on suboxone you will go into the worst withdrawl you have ever felt. Terrible

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[sub7percent]

You have to be a complete idiot to OD on subs. I have years of experience never even really nodded from them. You don't use 16 mgs. If you need to take it you use the lowest possible amount. The lower the amount the better you feel. People in the know realize 1 mg doses you get the best effect. Your tolerance never goes up. Been on it for years this way zero issues.

When you are on suboxone maintenance from a doctor that is a common dosage unfortunately.

 

[Mike Arnold]

Both are evil and have there part in destroying people.
Suboxone can be prescribed and obtained from legal places, I.E easier to acquire and abuse. Withdraws are many times over worse and last longer then heroin.
Suboxone binds to the same receptors as opiods , fills them up generally speaking so actual opiods cannot.
The danger comes when people use heroin on suboxone and cannot feel the euphoric effects and just keep doing more and more which in turn ends up killing them.

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Completely untrue. It is actually the EXACT OPPOSITE of what you said.
Buprenorphine PROTECTS an opioid user from overdose by preventing other opioids from attaching to their receptor sites.

You may get "some" effects if you push the opioid high enough, but if the Bup dose is sufficient it won't have any effect at all...which means it will not be affecting your cardio-respiratory system...which means it cannot kill you.
It won't be doing anything at all. It will just float around doing nothing until it is metabolized...and since it is metabolized way faster than Bup, it will be out of the system before the Bup is, thereby eliminating the possibility of overdose.

Even a moderate dose of Buprenorphine pretty much eliminates the possibility of opioid overdose.


...and to those who said Bup is worse than heroin...absolute nonsense! I've been using Bup for 10 year straight now and have zero issues. I can't even tell I take it. I feel fine and function perfectly well with no physical or emotional health issues.

Go try and find a heroin addict under similar circumstances. Good luck.

There are a LOT of reason why Bup is WAY less injurious than something like heroin, so I'm not even going to elaborate on them here...other than to say that the belief that Bup is worse than heroin (or any full-opioid agonist) is absolutely wrong.

 

[Mike Arnold]

Suboxone (buprenorphine) has a very high binding affinity at the opiate receptor (which is why it can be a problem for trying to use naltrexone in overdose situations). Therefore, the activity of certain vicaine ingredients at the opiate receptor is likely null.

However being that you are trying to get clean, staying away from ALL mind or mood altering substances - complete abstinence - is strongly suggested, in addition to a program of recovery.


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Exactly.

 

[Mike Arnold]

NO.....!!!!

YOU ARE.....

suboxone is MANY MANY times more addictive that straight up heroin...

**EDIT**, ive seen first HAND how it effects people...

sub is synthetic heroin.....formulated by mutli-BILLION dollar pharm
companies.....

ask how many people on this board are using sub....????
and for how long....???.....because that's the scam....
get off the H....and get on our H...!!!!.....

its the perfect scam....

I know people who have been on it for over 10 YEARS!!!!!
it LEGAL HEROIN!!!!! (with a script)....
1 film of sub goes for 10$....on black market.....I know people who pay
their fucking mortgage....because they get 90 a month....and they ALL
sell the very first day...!!!!....

It's nothing like heroin, Tenny. It's euphoric effects are a fraction a potent and quickly deteriorate to almost nothing with regular use because it is a PARTIAL opioid against...not a FULL opioid agonist like other opioids. No opioid addict trying to get high prefers Bup to heroin (or any other full agonist) because it sucks in comparison. It does not in any way, shape, or form act like heroin on the user.

Bup has saved many people's lives...heroin (and other full opioid agonists) only destroy lives. The VAST majority of prescribed Bup users are living healthy, normal lives....while the vast majority of heroin addicts are a complete wreck.

The entire point of Bup therapy is the IMPROVE the addicts life...NOT to get them off opioids. In my opinion, who really cares if someone is technically taking an opioid, as long as they're healthy and their life is in order.

Now, opinions vary in the medical community as to how long it should be used for. Some doctors only use it to stabilize the patient...then slowly wean them off. Other doctors evaluate each patient according to how they respond. Those who can live a better life without it should go off, while those who won't shouldn't. it's really that simple...and not everyone is the same in this regard.

That is the WHOLE POINT of Bup therapy...to improve lives...and it does a marvelous job in the vast majority of cases.

Heroin and other opioids are WAY more dangerous...both from a physical standpoint (you can't die from an OD with bup due to its low ceiling effect and it being a partial agonist)...and from a mental-emotional health standpoint. The available research/statistics on this are overwhelmingly clear on this.

The only downside to Bup compared to heroin is the WD's last longer if someone goes cold turkey, but that should never happen when someone is taking it as prescribed from their doctor. However, Bup WD's are not as intense--they're just longer.

I was clean for 5 years without any Bup and I felt bad the entire time. Prior to Bup, even after 5+ years clean time, I still felt depressed constantly, had horrible insomnia, and always felt like something was wrong inside. Bup took all that away and saved my life. For the first time ever I am feeling and functioning the way others do and I have zero cravings for other opioids...something that never happened before. I will use t the rest of my life...because both me and all my doctors agree that my life is better with it....and that's what really matters.

 

[tenny]

It's nothing like heroin, Tenny. It's euphoric effects are a fraction a potent and quickly deteriorate to almost nothing with regular use because it is a PARTIAL opioid against...not a FULL opioid agonist like other opioids. No opioid addict trying to get high prefers Bup to heroin (or any other full agonist) because it sucks in comparison. It does not in any way, shape, or form act like heroin on the user.

Bup has saved many people's lives...heroin (and other full opioid agonists) only destroy lives. The VAST majority of prescribed Bup users are living healthy, normal lives....while the vast majority of heroin addicts are a complete wreck.

The entire point of Bup therapy is the IMPROVE the addicts life...NOT to get them off opioids. In my opinion, who really cares if someone is technically taking an opioid, as long as they're healthy and their life is in order.

Now, opinions vary in the medical community as to how long it should be used for. Some doctors only use it to stabilize the patient...then slowly wean them off. Other doctors evaluate each patient according to how they respond. Those who can live a better life without it should go off, while those who won't shouldn't. it's really that simple...and not everyone is the same in this regard.

That is the WHOLE POINT of Bup therapy...to improve lives...and it does a marvelous job in the vast majority of cases.

Heroin and other opioids are WAY more dangerous...both from a physical standpoint (you can't die from an OD with bup due to its low ceiling effect and it being a partial agonist)...and from a mental-emotional health standpoint. The available research/statistics on this are overwhelmingly clear on this.

The only downside to Bup compared to heroin is the WD's last longer if someone goes cold turkey, but that should never happen when someone is taking it as prescribed from their doctor. However, Bup WD's are not as intense--they're just longer.

I was clean for 5 years without any Bup and I felt bad the entire time. Prior to Bup, even after 5+ years clean time, I still felt depressed constantly, had horrible insomnia, and always felt like something was wrong inside. Bup took all that away and saved my life. For the first time ever I am feeling and functioning the way others do and I have zero cravings for other opioids...something that never happened before. I will use t the rest of my life...because both me and all my doctors agree that my life is better with it....and that's what really matters.

of course your doctors want you to stay on it...

they get their pockets lined too...

that's the scam....

your right....its not the same....its worse....what makes it worse..???
blood life...