Vicaine and suboxone

[tenny]

the new thing now......is SHOOTING sub.....

peeps are shooting 8mg films and getting high...

for like 24 hours

 

[makaveli25]

the new thing now......is SHOOTING sub.....

peeps are shooting 8mg films and getting high...

for like 24 hours

That's not a new thing. People have done that since they came out. It's retarded.

 

[Broseph11]

WOW this thread went crazy, I know we all have had some shitty experiences with these drugs and best wishes to all. So the moral of this thread is dont take vicaine if you have an opiate problem!

 

[way2tense]

the new thing now......is SHOOTING sub.....

peeps are shooting 8mg films and getting high...

for like 24 hours

one of the last times i got high(hadnt used in over year)...i shot an 8mg sub(tab)...

i was high for 3 days...vomiting often for the first 48 hrs...

what really blew my mind was...i got it from a pregnant chick who had been prescribed two a day...could not understand how a doctor could give that shit to someone who was pregnant.

 

[ChemJr.]

Thanks boys appreciate the insight. Agree with you both. Suboxone sucks, just as bad as opiates in my opinion

Suboxone is worse in my opinion. It's more addictive than Crack mixed with dope mixed with benzos mixed with the best antidepressant type thing. It does EVERYTHING for your brain so your brain shuts off and doesn't produce dick anymore.

I have a list of supplements I can recommend to help you taper off of the subs. Mostly things that helps boost dopamine naturally and a few other things that you'd never think of that I just so happened to of found that helped.


And to answer your question I think that tianeptine would most definitely interact with the naloxone in subs and with the bupinorphine itself as it is a partial antagonist as well, considering that tianeptine interacts with all three opiate receptors just like morphine etc. Amd if there have reported cases of people going into a rehab for it (forster case was in Europe somewhere, believe it was the UK) then I would most definitely stay away from it.
And again, if people are posting about how they can get high from mega dosing the stuff on reddit and bluelight then I would also venture a guess that it's no good for someone trying to stay clean.

Again, if you would like some help with natty supps to help you taper off the subs lmk. And lastly, Kratom can be your best friend and worst enemy for tapering off so don't think that stuff is without consequence. Basically think of it like this- if you take it and it alters the way your body feels about anything then there has to be a down side. Even nsaids can kill you, my father is proof. After 30+ yrs of 6-800mg ibuprofen for his horrific archaic neck surgeries (plural) where's they wrapped wire around his vertebrae, his liver was covered in cysts and looked the same as a chronic severe alcoholic the Dr's said.

Sorry for lengthy rant, coffee is kicking in. Hope this helps and the board is here for ya. Stay serine

 

[ChemJr.]

I felt compelled to respond to both of these for the nurse that walks thru the addiction clinic and wanted some answers. And for any others.

I don't know how your can legitimately claim this? How many people have gone through WDs from only subuxone vs only heroin? People that are weaning off subuxone and go into WD have abused heroin, oxy, morphine, whatever BEFORE they got onto subuxone which contributes to their WD from subuxone.

There is no control group where we have tested withdrawals from suboxone only vs heroin only, that would be an extremely unethical study.

Some have gotten off of morphine, methadone, dope, oxys and subs at different times with no help at home. And from what I've heard sub withdrawal is as bad or worse than methadone withdrawal if your stopped abruptly above 4mg, but def hell at 8 and stopped. If you taper anything down its going to be easier to stop and most long time dope heads will tell you they've come off different stuff multiple times by themselves and subs are the worst which is why so many end up buying SUBS off the street- bc they can function and it's the only thing that keeps them happy as well so they'll discard the high for the ability to stay well longer and just Be Happy*/ have feel good chemicals in their brain that they haven't felt in years or decades and, at never feel again without it. Just giving the input I know first hand from kids I went to high school with who all ended up on some kind of doper.

You're completely talking out of your ass man. In no way shape or form is it worse than heroin. It can be titrated down to wean somebody off (try doing that with heroin of varying potency not to mention different fentanyl analogues synthesized in china mixed in). It is taken in the last non-addictive way possible (sublingual) unlike heroin which is typically smoked (tar) or snorted (powder) or injected (either tar or powder).

You're 100% wrong Tenny.

Again, if Anything is titrated (down is redundant) then you'll obviously do better. Just like my thoughts above about the many people I know that have come off of dopers themselves just by lowering the dose and then getting sick for a while. But just because the administration method of suboxone is different doesn't mean withdrawals are any easier (actually harder) and Certainly* doesn't mean they aren't abused. One of the people I was thinking about when I wrote above is a female that Still SHOOTS UP subutex (bupinorphine without the naloxone) AND suboxone! So not only are they hard as fk to get off of but also can be abused. Please don't speak on matter that you don't have sufficient knowledge of. I'm not being disrespectful so please don't come attacking me. I'm merely saying that before posting something that is disrespectful and accusatory you may want to know that you are in the right.

Hope this helps everyone out there amd those with loved ones that are hurting.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-T377A using Professional Muscle mobile app

 

[ChemJr.]

**EDIT**

How many people have you lost this year from subuxone? I never lost a single person in my life from subs. The body count for people that loved me and I loved them is up around a dozen now from heroin. THREE THIS FUCKING YEAR.

And you're telling me subuxone is worse than heroin?

I would pray to goddamn fucking satan himself if it would help my friends be on subuxone today and not underground.

I feel your pain as its been the same story with me. About 20 of us all grew up together and there's about 4 or 5 of us left. So I feel your pain.
But I know a woman that shoots up suboxone and it's collapsing her veins and I have no idea how much longer she'll be around. Was a up and coming realtor who ,adex one of the biggest deals in her area, looked hot, etc. Now lost her job at giant and apt and lives in hotel paid for by parents (they're rich) and uses whatever she can get her hands on. She was clean from dope for almost 4 years. Did some dope for week or two then got subs as a way out and now will never*** stop slamming them and is withering away to nothing and is getting sick all the time, her time is limited. Doesn't matter what you, matters how you do it!
To explain that point I know a close relative who's been on opiates for over 40yrs now and is healthy as a horse bc they take them orally and have legitimate pain.

So I would say your issue is with HOW people are doing things and for what reason, rather than what specific drug they are using. Fkn asprin will kill you. So can too much water.

Cool off bro, we're all hurting.

 

[tenny]

one of the last times i got high(hadnt used in over year)...i shot an 8mg sub(tab)...

i was high for 3 days...vomiting often for the first 48 hrs...

what really blew my mind was...i got it from a pregnant chick who had been prescribed two a day...could not understand how a doctor could give that shit to someone who was pregnant.

LOL....its a NASTY drug....

made not to kill ya.....made for you to become DEPENDENT....for LIFE...

again....that's the scam....

the ONLY way out.....ONLY WAY.....is to cold turkey....tapper and cold turkey.

might take a year.....or two.....but its the ONLY way....

sub is not the answer to opiates addiction.....its a bandaid, that the
government and pham companies profit BILLIONS!!!!!!! from....

I'm just the messenger....don't hate....it is what it is....

and thats what it is.......sadly

 

[ChemJr.]

You have to be a complete idiot to OD on subs. I have years of experience never even really nodded from them. You don't use 16 mgs. If you need to take it you use the lowest possible amount. The lower the amount the better you feel. People in the know realize 1 mg doses you get the best effect. Your tolerance never goes up. Been on it for years this way zero issues.

Guy I was in rehab with lied about how much subs he needed so he'd get a GOOOOOOOD nod from them. Like drooling on himself with head completely laid back when he was just talking a few minutes earlier. All depends on the persons brain chemistry. Just like I know some that can get high while on subs while others get sick if they touch anything- person dependent.

 

[ChemJr.]

Completely untrue. It is actually the EXACT OPPOSITE of what you said.
Buprenorphine PROTECTS an opioid user from overdose by preventing other opioids from attaching to their receptor sites.

You may get "some" effects if you push the opioid high enough, but if the Bup dose is sufficient it won't have any effect at all...which means it will not be affecting your cardio-respiratory system...which means it cannot kill you.
It won't be doing anything at all. It will just float around doing nothing until it is metabolized...and since it is metabolized way faster than Bup, it will be out of the system before the Bup is, thereby eliminating the possibility of overdose.

Even a moderate dose of Buprenorphine pretty much eliminates the possibility of opioid overdose.


...and to those who said Bup is worse than heroin...absolute nonsense! I've been using Bup for 10 year straight now and have zero issues. I can't even tell I take it. I feel fine and function perfectly well with no physical or emotional health issues.

Go try and find a heroin addict under similar circumstances. Good luck.

There are a LOT of reason why Bup is WAY less injurious than something like heroin, so I'm not even going to elaborate on them here...other than to say that the belief that Bup is worse than heroin (or any full-opioid agonist) is absolutely wrong.

Holy crap I feel I MUST respond to these posts. Sorry for the influx of my Experiences.

Buprenorphine is a Partial* agonist and partial antagonist of the opiate receptors. It is the NALOXONE that in the suboxone (hence subutex and suboxone*) that blocks other opiates from coming in. But***, this is person dependant. Because like I said before I know those that get sick as hell if they touch anything while on subs (like what happened to me when I was dumb enough to take a bump of oxy) and those that can get high as a kite while on subs. Just proof I've seen with my own two eyes.

 

[ChemJr.]

LOL....its a NASTY drug....

made not to kill ya.....made for you to become DEPENDENT....for LIFE...

again....that's the scam....

the ONLY way out.....ONLY WAY.....is to cold turkey....tapper and cold turkey.

might take a year.....or two.....but its the ONLY way....

sub is not the answer to opiates addiction.....its a bandaid, that the
government and pham companies profit BILLIONS!!!!!!! from....

I'm just the messenger....don't hate....it is what it is....

and thats what it is.......sadly

Well put tenny. They can kill ya too.

And much love to all of those affected by any of this crap, personally or second hand. Either way it's a shity situation and I feel bad for everyone who's participating or reading this thread.

 

[Broseph11]

LOL....its a NASTY drug....

made not to kill ya.....made for you to become DEPENDENT....for LIFE...

again....that's the scam....

the ONLY way out.....ONLY WAY.....is to cold turkey....tapper and cold turkey.

might take a year.....or two.....but its the ONLY way....

sub is not the answer to opiates addiction.....its a bandaid, that the
government and pham companies profit BILLIONS!!!!!!! from....

I'm just the messenger....don't hate....it is what it is....


and thats what it is.......sadly

Im living proof of this. Been on subs for almost 3 years and its not my first time. They definitely created this drug to make money. Don’t get me wrong they do what they are supposed to but impossible to get off..

 

[Samson250]

The Subject is Vic and Sub BUT on a related note..

All week I've been looking into Tianeptine, Nigella and Agmatine and got excited about trying it but on the opiate junkie boards they say since I'm a kratom guy and price wise that's a far less expensive option once a tolerance to Tianeptine is built (which is quick apparently) kratom and other receptor antagonist becomes obsolete and ineffective. They all recommended keeping the kratom and adding the Nigella and Agmatine.

It's considerably cost effective to buy the 3 ingredients listed above (T,N,A) separately on the net instead of products that already have all 3 by the way.

The point they make is the fact Tianeptine is a manufactured Chem and really messes with the receptors in a way they said makes other equal alternatives null and void and stronger op's not as potent once a tolerance was reached. Not always as everyone is different but the consensus agreed.

 

[sub7percent]

Completely untrue. It is actually the EXACT OPPOSITE of what you said.

Buprenorphine PROTECTS an opioid user from overdose by preventing other opioids from attaching to their receptor sites.



You may get "some" effects if you push the opioid high enough, but if the Bup dose is sufficient it won't have any effect at all...which means it will not be affecting your cardio-respiratory system...which means it cannot kill you.

It won't be doing anything at all. It will just float around doing nothing until it is metabolized...and since it is metabolized way faster than Bup, it will be out of the system before the Bup is, thereby eliminating the possibility of overdose.



Even a moderate dose of Buprenorphine pretty much eliminates the possibility of opioid overdose.





...and to those who said Bup is worse than heroin...absolute nonsense! I've been using Bup for 10 year straight now and have zero issues. I can't even tell I take it. I feel fine and function perfectly well with no physical or emotional health issues.



Go try and find a heroin addict under similar circumstances. Good luck.



There are a LOT of reason why Bup is WAY less injurious than something like heroin, so I'm not even going to elaborate on them here...other than to say that the belief that Bup is worse than heroin (or any full-opioid agonist) is absolutely wrong.

Mike - i would be interested if you would elaborate a bit if you don't mind. My understanding is that bupe has a stronger binding affinity than naloxone and therefore an OD can be disastrous. I understand tat OD will occur at higher than average doses, but nevertheless this could be an issue. No?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[laxfan24]

I know this thread is a bit of an debate between which opiate/opioid is less threatening to your life and well being, which is just odd, but I find it hard to believe that not one person has mentioned recovery. I have worked a program in AA for 9 plus years and I haven't felt it necessary to take suboxone, heroin, oxys, Norcos, Percs, etc. It's available to everyone and it's FREE and allows you to be FREE all this crap.

 

[Mike Arnold]

Holy crap I feel I MUST respond to these posts. Sorry for the influx of my Experiences.

Buprenorphine is a Partial* agonist and partial antagonist of the opiate receptors. It is the NALOXONE that in the suboxone (hence subutex and suboxone*) that blocks other opiates from coming in. But***, this is person dependant. Because like I said before I know those that get sick as hell if they touch anything while on subs (like what happened to me when I was dumb enough to take a bump of oxy) and those that can get high as a kite while on subs. Just proof I've seen with my own two eyes.

The naloxone in suboxone is NOT what prevents people from getting high while taking other opiates...because the naloxone isn't absorbed orally. It is only when a sub is injected that the naloxone can cause withdrawal...and is the entire reason naloxone is included in Suboxone. Naloxone is NOT included in suboxone to prevent other opioids from working.

please do respond...becuase you do not understand how this drug works. The Buprenorphine ITSELF is what stop other opioids from working...because of its very high binding affinity it prevents other opioids from attaching.

Now, if someone is currently addicted to other opioids, such as heroin...and the person takes any kind of buprenorphine containing drug, it WILL cause withdrawal because it will knock the heroin off the receptor.

However, if the person is no longer addicted to other opioids and has been taking buprenorphine for a while...and then takes another opioid...the other opioid will have no effect because it cannot bind.

 

[Mike Arnold]

Mike - i would be interested if you would elaborate a bit if you don't mind. My understanding is that bupe has a stronger binding affinity than naloxone and therefore an OD can be disastrous. I understand tat OD will occur at higher than average doses, but nevertheless this could be an issue. No?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

No, the naloxone will still bind when taken with buprenorphine, but only when injected because it has very poor oral bioavailbility. This is why they add it to Suboxone--to prevent abuse via injecting.

Buprenorphine is EXTREMELY unlikely to cause death even in the event of an extreme overdose due to its limited ceiling effect...and the fact it does not impact the cardio-respiratory system like other full opioid agonists. Both of these reasons (among many more) are the reason it is prescribed for addicts. It is infinitely safer than full opioid agonists.

 

[Mike Arnold]

I've had withdraws from suboxone methadone and oxy cotin. Methadone was the worst followed by oxies. Suboxone isn't as intense but it lasts a long time.

I plan on micro dosing sub for the distant future. It doesn't fuck up my health I feel great. I get 12 mgs I use 2-3. It's maintenance. Same thing as trt imo. I realize it's an addiction. Try coming of trt, anti depressants, benzos, sleep meds. All have similar consequences.

Correct.

 

[Mike Arnold]

If someone says suboxen is worse than heroin or whatever i have hard time believing they have any experience. Subs don't get you high like heroin or oxys, or even tabs or nubain. I forget to take my subs all the time and i promise you that never happened with hard drugs. The withrawl is uncomfortable and last longer but the withdrawl from the other stuff had me puking laying in bed for days like you see in movies and tv. Same here too, they had me at 3 a day and all ever take is half a strip a day and maybe an extra quarter on days I'm tired or don't feel like training. I've got my visits down to every other month and could go every 4 if was allowed.

Steroids have been the hardest thing for me to come off of. I'm happy to be off all the hard drugs but I still miss a good cycle

Exactly. There is some retarded as shit being said in this forum...by people that pretend to know how this drug works, but don't. Not only is buprenorphine infinitely safer and almost impossible to die from even after an extreme OD, but many buprenorphine users live a normal, healthy life. This is NEVER the case with heroin or any other full opioid agonists.

There are some people here saying "but you're still addicted to opioids!". No shit! Does that even need to be mentioned? No.

People do not engage in buprenorphine maintenance (key word being "maintenance") to get off opioids. They do it to live a normal, happy life...and THAT is what really matters. If someone can do it without Bup...great...they should, but if experience has shown they can't, even after many years of clean time, then the better option is to stay on it. People can live a long, normal life taking Bup every day. Let's see any heroin addicts in a similar situation. There are none.

Comparing heroin use to prescribed Bup use is beyond retarded.

 

[Mike Arnold]

Try quitting 16mg daily Suboxone cold turkey and you will be begging for any OxyContin withdrawal.
It depends on the dose. 16 mg of Bup is WAY more potent than say, 20 mg of oxy, but if you're comparing equivalent doses then the oxy withdrawal is absolutely worse...in terms of intensity. Bup just withdrawals last longer, but that also sucks.


Also, if you od on it you are in real trouble
No. Buprenorphine is nowhere near as dangerous as full opioid agonists. For the thrived time, it is almost impossible to die from a Bup OD because of its ceiling effect and the fact it has a much smaller impact on the cardio-respiratory system, which is what kills people when OD'ing on full agonists.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

.....