Visualization / Power of the Mind

[Deleted member 106824]

What are everyone's thoughts on visualization / the power of the mind in terms of how it related to bodybuilding / lifting?

My thoughts on it are that the more inexperienced one is, and the more technical the skill, the more it will help. For example someone new to olympic weightlifting I would think would benefit from mental practice far more than an advanced bodybuilder (who's lifts require much less technical skill). Having said that, I have seen 2 studies showing advanced powerlifters being tricked into thinking they were taking steroids making tremendous gains in strength in the weeks they were "on" (placebo pills) and then when they were told they were just placebo pills they ended up losing most of that strength even though they knew the progress was made regardless of not being on steroids...so clearly even with these elite athletes the mind's influence can be very powerful.

I also think it would probably influence strength more than size unfortunately.

I have done visualization in the past, though the only time I have given it a truly dedicated effort was 2-3 summers ago where I spent a full month envisioning every single workout from start to finish going perfectly. However, I was dieting during this period so it is very hard to judge how well I worked. I certainly had bad workouts, but maybe I still held onto more than I would have otherwise. I would say it slightly improved motivation as well, though for most of us being consistent is not a problem.


Thoughts?


Here are studies indicating that mental practice, alone or in conjunction with training, lead to improvements (or more improvements than training alone) in strength, coordination, etc. Some of these studies are of course better than others. Unfortunately, none of the ones involving mental training are in well trained athletes.

**broken link removed**

Mental preparation, mental practice and strength tasks: a need for clarification. - PubMed - NCBI

Effects of mental practice on rate of skill acquisition. - PubMed - NCBI

Effects of mental practice on balance in elderly women. - PubMed - NCBI

Effect of mental practice on isometric muscular strength. - PubMed - NCBI

Can mental practice increase ankle dorsiflexor torque? - PubMed - NCBI

[Mental practice has influence on limitation of motion and muscle atrophy following immobilisation of the radiocarpal joint - a prospective randomi... - PubMed - NCBI

Strength gains by motor imagery with different ratios of physical to mental practice. - PubMed - NCBI

Anabolic steroids: the physiological effects of placebos - This study is one of three in an investigation of the short and long term effects of an anabolic steroid (Dianabol) upon human performance - Ariel Dynamics

 

[doug1]

Thoughts? After I read three hours of literature with my fourloco buzz!? My thoughts are visualization for a bb is bs. Put the time in on the iron and watch the diet, that's reality, that's what produces. Can visualizing what we want to look like and using that to discipline us to train hard and eat right affect our reality, of course.

 

[Deleted member 106824]

Thoughts? After I read three hours of literature with my fourloco buzz!? My thoughts are visualization for a bb is bs. Put the time in on the iron and watch the diet, that's reality, that's what produces. Can visualizing what we want to look like and using that to discipline us to train hard and eat right affect our reality, of course.

LOL I didn't put those links there for everyone to read, I put them there as further evidence of visualization IF someone wanted to look further into what I was talking about. Reading them is in no way required for the thread.

You also just said it was bs, followed by saying that it can "of course" have an effect...

 

[doug1]

Affect our reality by influencing our actions....
If you have fat to loose, visualizing yourself with abs and cuts in the arms and legs, gives greater discipline with dieting.
If you're scrawny and want to gain muscle, visualizing more muscle on your frame will help you to train harder in order to accomplish that. It's more of a subconscious programming of the mind, which then the mind has the thoughts to take the action necessary to accomplish the goals.
Maybe that's all you are trying to say. I remember an article in muscle and fitness when I was a kid that tried to imply you could "visualize" your way to a world class physique....That the brain alone could somehow build bigger muscles. Hogwash, just like the big ass ripped Russian that had electrodes hooked up to his massive, ripped, vascular arms that use to be in the magazines back then too. Yeah, buy this product and look like this. So many scams out there, still going strong. We see the commercials of the bodybuilder who built his physique with years in the gym and strict dieting, using some piece of cardio equipment and implying that thing built his physique. Yeah right.

 

[b_cornelius]

You also just said it was bs, followed by saying that it can "of course" have an effect...

It's funny, but I think that's how our society treats it.

 

[doug1]

It's funny, but I think that's how our society treats it.

I'm skeptical. I know the mind is powerful. I believe there has to be a physical demand on the body requiring it to adapt, I don't think the mind alone can produce that demand.

 

[psypower]

i believe bodybuilding is mainly mental.

read "Jonathan Livingston Seagull" by Richard Bach

 

[homonunculus]

Figured I'd post this up here for you:

**broken link removed**

"What would you say if I told you that there is a singular technique for improving athletic performance in just about any way you want? You want more strength, more endurance, greater pain tolerance? You name it and you can have it. I’m talking about one simple strategy, a magic bullet, that you can use to break past previous performance barriers whatever your chosen sport. Perhaps best of all (I know what you’re thinking), this performance panacea is undetectable through any form of (body fluid analysis-based) drug screening ever.

Such a “super supplement” exists, but it isn't a drug, technically speaking. Like many things in life, it’s a matter of what you make of it. I’m referring to a placebo, the famous “sugar pill” that is used as a “control” condition in many scientific experiments to account for the general effects of administering a substance or treatment."

-S

 

[doug1]

Good article, thanks.

Since this is predominantly a bb website and not a powerlifting website, I made the assumption of visualization alone to BUILD muscle. So based on that, I stand behind every word I typed. Some can disagree, it's a free country(and board for that matter).
peace out

 

[brutus69]

Figured I'd post this up here for you:

**broken link removed**

"What would you say if I told you that there is a singular technique for improving athletic performance in just about any way you want? You want more strength, more endurance, greater pain tolerance? You name it and you can have it. I’m talking about one simple strategy, a magic bullet, that you can use to break past previous performance barriers whatever your chosen sport. Perhaps best of all (I know what you’re thinking), this performance panacea is undetectable through any form of (body fluid analysis-based) drug screening ever.

Such a “super supplement” exists, but it isn't a drug, technically speaking. Like many things in life, it’s a matter of what you make of it. I’m referring to a placebo, the famous “sugar pill” that is used as a “control” condition in many scientific experiments to account for the general effects of administering a substance or treatment."

-S

there u go. explain how the placebo effect works if the mind/body connection is a hoax. then again, opinions arent facts.

 

[doug1]

:banghead:

 

[Deleted member 106824]

Homonunculus, thanks for posting your recent article as I said I was a big fan of it and am looking forward to the next one.

Doug1, I think we are on the same page. I in no way think sitting around thinking about leaning out or building muscle will do anything for one's physique. I believe I have seen a study where visualization did increase muscle activity in the visualized muscle but I don't believe this would lead to significant growth. However, as the studies I posted suggested, it is well established that when it comes to skills mental practice can provide a great benefit, sometimes nearly as much as actual practice. And other studies show strength itself (so not really a technical skill) can improve with mental practice.

However, I believe the large majority of these improvements, including the strength gains, are based on neural adaptations. And therefore as I said in my first post I believe it would, unfortunately, have less of an effect for bodybuilding.

I do see 2 ways it could at least potentially help though:
1.) As you said, it could help one's motivation and make them push harder in the gym, stay stricter on their diet, reinforce their self-perception as a bodybuilder and therefore stay the course and remain vigilant
2.) Maybe, if over time it allows greater strength increases and a better "mind-muscle connection" it could lead to great muscle growth. I do not know though.

In any case, this is why I wanted to hear what people's thoughts were and if they had any personal experience

 

[BEASTZ6]

There are some good books out there on this subject. Jennifer O'Neill's book 18 Laws of the Universe is a good read.

 

[doug1]

However, I believe the large majority of these improvements, including the strength gains, are based on neural adaptations.
2.) Maybe, if over time it allows greater strength increases and a better "mind-muscle connection" it could lead to great muscle growth. I do not know though.

I totally agree.:yeahthat:

 

[Fitilla]

I've never in any of this mind mentall bullshit,never will, people wjo praise that usually ewant to make some $ of it

 

[homonunculus]

Good article, thanks.

Since this is predominantly a bb website and not a powerlifting website, I made the assumption of visualization alone to BUILD muscle. So based on that, I stand behind every word I typed. Some can disagree, it's a free country(and board for that matter).
peace out

Sure, man.

Check this article out. The study here involves hypnosis, which one could characterize as a form of visualization whereby one utter believes in that being visualized...

**broken link removed**



-S

 

[homonunculus]

Homonunculus, thanks for posting your recent article as I said I was a big fan of it and am looking forward to the next one.

Doug1, I think we are on the same page. I in no way think sitting around thinking about leaning out or building muscle will do anything for one's physique. I believe I have seen a study where visualization did increase muscle activity in the visualized muscle but I don't believe this would lead to significant growth. However, as the studies I posted suggested, it is well established that when it comes to skills mental practice can provide a great benefit, sometimes nearly as much as actual practice. And other studies show strength itself (so not really a technical skill) can improve with mental practice.

However, I believe the large majority of these improvements, including the strength gains, are based on neural adaptations. And therefore as I said in my first post I believe it would, unfortunately, have less of an effect for bodybuilding.

I do see 2 ways it could at least potentially help though:
1.) As you said, it could help one's motivation and make them push harder in the gym, stay stricter on their diet, reinforce their self-perception as a bodybuilder and therefore stay the course and remain vigilant
2.) Maybe, if over time it allows greater strength increases and a better "mind-muscle connection" it could lead to great muscle growth. I do not know though.

In any case, this is why I wanted to hear what people's thoughts were and if they had any personal experience

The bolded can make one hell of a difference.

-S

 

[Deleted member 106824]

The bolded can make one hell of a difference.

-S

Scott do you have any personal experience with yourself or clients using visualization/hypnosis/mental imagery/etc?

Conversely, I wonder if people hold themselves back by thinking a certain supplement/routine/etc is worthless and therefore they don't get anything out of that.

Having said that, I have we all know people who truly believe they're making gains and getting crazy results from supplements/routines, who haven't made any real progress in years lol

 

[doug1]

Having said that, I have we all know people who truly believe they're making gains and getting crazy results from supplements/routines, who haven't made any real progress in years lol

LOL! I remember about 5 years or so ago, which would have been after 20 years of training, having my wife do calipers and figuring out my lbm. I compared it in a notepad I had been keeping for many years with the previous time(I have no idea the time difference, at least a year or more). Anyway, I had been training really hard and eating right and doing whatever the latest training was that suited my fancy. Turns out I hadn't gained ANYTHING in years! I was so depressed for a couple hours. Then said to myself, "well, you've hit your genetic limit with gear." I haven't done Gh to go the next level, I'm too old for that now and didn't want to risk a distended belly. So I have just been working on refining my physique and staying lean. Staying lean is when I'm the happiest. Whats the point of bulking and pigging out, to gain nothing but fat that takes WAY longer to take off, than put on. With how often and hard I train, no one would know that I have come to the realization of not gaining anymore muscle. I just love training and staying in shape.

haha, I just read my above post to my wife, she remembers that day!

 

[Deleted member 106824]

LOL! I remember about 5 years or so ago, which would have been after 20 years of training, having my wife do calipers and figuring out my lbm. I compared it in a notepad I had been keeping for many years with the previous time(I have no idea the time difference, at least a year or more). Anyway, I had been training really hard and eating right and doing whatever the latest training was that suited my fancy. Turns out I hadn't gained ANYTHING in years! I was so depressed for a couple hours. Then said to myself, "well, you've hit your genetic limit with gear." I haven't done Gh to go the next level, I'm too old for that now and didn't want to risk a distended belly. So I have just been working on refining my physique and staying lean. Staying lean is when I'm the happiest. Whats the point of bulking and pigging out, to gain nothing but fat that takes WAY longer to take off, than put on. With how often and hard I train, no one would know that I have come to the realization of not gaining anymore muscle. I just love training and staying in shape.

haha, I just read my above post to my wife, she remembers that day!

Haha oh man I feel ya. It is a very depressing realization indeed. How much gear did you get up to, out of curiosity?

That's a part of why I decided to just go back to TRT. Whether I was on TRT or blasting eventually I would still have a limit. For me, I am not the best responder to gear so even if I just kept blasting 1-1.5g forever I don't think I'd hold more than maybe 10-15lb more max compared to TRT so it wasn't worth staying on for many more years for that.

As an example, this past year I bulked up on a 12 week cycle of "safer" injectables and then cut down with another cycle of the same compounds....I netted pretty much nothing. It's a harsh reality to see that even with gear we have limits that aren't yet what we desire but like you said unless we want to make a jump to the next set of compounds like GH, slin, etc then we pretty much have to go crazy.

I am only 24, so I'd like to think I can still make some progress, but I've trained very hard and very consistently with a proper diet for 9 years, and 3 years on gear....the reality may be that I'm pretty much capped out if I just stay on TRT (which I plan to). Then again maybe I'm just putting a mental block on myself :banghead: