VMO(teardrop) vs. Lateralis(sweep)?

[TooPowerful4u]

Something is fucked up goin on with my legs. It is startin to get noticeable that my VMO is gettin a lot bigger than my sweep. My VMO dominates ever type of leg movement i can think of. I get such a painful pump there that i can hardly deal with it, yet NOTHING in the sweep no matter what movement or foot position i use (and iv tried a lot). After workouts, only my VMO is sore, sweep feels fine. Only time sweep is ever sore the next day or two is if i beat the shit out of my legs til i almost pass out and cant stand up out of a chair for 15min, and thats gotta be overtraining.

Any ideas?

 

[Nssca]

Try a little bit wider stance or foot placement until you can feel the outer muscle. I read an article not to long ago about wide stance smith squats. supposed to hit the outer leg more. Just experiment with diff positions till you hit it.

 

[xcelbeyond]

I have the same problem!

The issue, IMHO, is genetics. I have big quads but very little sweep. Just like I have big biceps, but no "peak."

I'm REALLY confused on what's suppose to do what. I thought close stance squates were suppose to emphasis "sweep" Anymore, I believe that you're either "working" a muscle or not (not putting adequate stress on it). How does the quad know the difference between a close or wide stance? How does the quad know you're not doing "full" range of motion? There's some great info on this here: http://www.professionalmuscle.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=7550

Now I do know that when you do "full range" motions that you're placing a MUCH GREATER emphasis on your joints (tendons & ligaments). So - if varying positions (to the extreme) and doing full-range motion is bad for joints, why do we emphasize it so much. Don't get me wrong, I do more than one type of exercise for a bodypart

What I am saying is how does your chest muscle know you're using a wide grip vs a close grip. Now you may want to argue that you can press more weight doing a declline vs flat bench - no argument here. You can usually do more weight using incline position than seated (military) press too!

Just some food for thought

xcel

 

[weight77]

Genetics. It is funny becaues the exact opposite happends to me. I get a pump so bad in my sweep it is almost painful. I do nothing out of the ordinary. So I guess it must be genetics.

 

[gainingmass]

Im with Darooster, i tried all the close stances feet 9 inches apart and all, but it wasnt until i started gettin a good wide stance and going down past parrallel for my sweep to really start growing, now i do point my toes in towards each other on leg ext. but for me a wide stance squatting made a big difference

 

[TooPowerful4u]

haha the funny thing is, the only time i DO feel the sweep is on leg extensions with toes pointed in. I didnt think that was an adequate mass builder though.

I dont think its genetic, cuase its a different head of the muscle. I HAVE had it sore before, and it has grown a good amount in the recent years, but not as much as my VMO.

I was pondering the idea in relation to calves. . . Youv all heard the toes in for outer gastrocs, toes out for inner right? Well, for calves iv learned the only reason for turning the toes in or out, is all about which side of the foot the weight is displaced. Iv learned myself, that i can put more pressure on the outside of my foot for the outer head, and more on the inside for the inner. Iv seen it work in my own development focusing on the inner head.
Now, my friend matty has insane sweep, but hes also kinda bowlegged and always has been. I have a friend i met at my new gym, also bowlegged a little from birth as he tells me, awesome sweep again. Tryin to figure this out . . .

 

[weight77]

Something to think about. If it were not genetic and it really was just a matter of doing different exercises then every pro would have huge a huge quad sweep.

 

[TooPowerful4u]

You could have a point. Still.... MOST pro's do have a really good sweep, weather its genetic or i dont like to believe but iv heard SYNTHOL), but id rather give it a shot. I know i CAN make my quad sweep sore and hit it hard with an extreme workout, and i feel if i can do this consistently itl work. Soo.... any ideas?

Weight : you stated that your sweep is excessivly pumped during workouts. Just for some outlook, could u state what exercises u predominantly do for quads, and ur foot stance width and direction?

 

[bigbadasian]

Reply

|--[\\\]>---------- It's your stance/foot position, the closer together, more the 'tears' come into place.

 

[TooPowerful4u]

The stance MIGHT be my mistake. I remember reading years ago on elite that sweep is emphasized with close stance, feet pointed foward. Now im bein told the opposite here. I been squattin like that for almost 2yrs now. Maybe time to change it up in light of new advice.

 

[weight77]

Well I am on a different program now but before I was killing my legs. I was doing 5 sets of squats, 3 sets of legg press, 3 sets of hack squats, 4 sets of extensions, and then lunges till I could not do anymore. I think becaues of that workout right there is the reasons I have so many strations in my legs. But I do feel my legs are growing more now since I have reduced the amount of sets and exercises I do.

 

[TooPowerful4u]

Sounds better than my program. Mine was, Wed. squat til u drop then extensions and curls, then sat front squat til u drop then extensions n curls.

Im currently tryin DC's training split recommended by his articles, and its workin nicely. Dont kick the hell outa my legs for long, less sore the next day, never had better strength gains, even while "on" and i been clean for 10 weeks now. Recommended protein intake sux tho haha

 

[WeirdAl]

If you can feel it in your outer quads doing leg extensions with a certain leg position, how about doing them before you do your squats to get some pre-exhaustion? And when you're doing your squats, really mentally focus on flexing your outer quads (sweep). I actually think it's more knee position than foot position

 

[TooPowerful4u]

I actually think it's more knee position than foot position

That is EXACTLY what i was thinking. Do you think it is knees in or out though?

 

[Nssca]

I think your just going to have to experiment with diff positions and placements till you find what works for your frame.
Do you have long legs? short legs? Ave. leg length?
Also, put some heavy dead lifts into your routine(From the floor)
The deads help build lower back strength(which helps in free weight squatting) and it also works the thighs and hips.
DC says to build thighs requires "high reps" for your one all out set. I try to hit 20-25reps before going up in weight.

 

[TooPowerful4u]

I am definatly gonna experiment. First thing il do is widen my stance a little. Im also gonna drop weight and play games with knee placement, possibly itl help. Wish me luck, thanx everyone.

 

[weight77]

Just watch out for you knees. Don't hurt them.

But again it is really genetics. Look at art atwood. Has zero quad sweep but massive legs none the less. It is just that more muscle tissue lays on the inside of his legs. I never do anything special for my sweep and it is always the first thing to blow up.

 

[TooPowerful4u]

Good analogy with Atwood. Still, the thicker my biceps get, the more they seem to peak, and i was told that couldnt be done, and its not like i have monster peaks, but im far from flat now where i used to be flat.

Im gonna give it a shot anyway, if you dont try, uv already lost any possibility of succeeding. I will post before and after leg shots in like 6 mo. lets test this theory out. . .

 

[rugbythug]

Re: I have the same problem!

, I believe that you're either "working" a muscle or not (not putting adequate stress on it). How does the quad know the difference between a close or wide stance? How does the quad know you're not doing "full" range of motion? There's some great info on this here: http://www.professionalmuscle.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=7550

Now I do know that when you do "full range" motions that you're placing a MUCH GREATER emphasis on your joints (tendons & ligaments). So - if varying positions (to the extreme) and doing full-range motion is bad for joints, why do we emphasize it so much. Don't get me wrong, I do more than one type of exercise for a bodypart

What I am saying is how does your chest muscle know you're using a wide grip vs a close grip. Now you may want to argue that you can press more weight doing a declline vs flat bench - no argument here. You can usually do more weight using incline position than seated (military) press too!

Just some food for thought

xcel [/B][/QUOTE]

Excel-One thing you have not touched on is leverage within the muscle. As you go through a full ROM you bones and joints move. At different postitions you have different leverage. Thus you also have differents stresses and required output to move the weight. So no your quad doesn't know. But the angle of the joint and ROM will require it to fire more or less intensly to move the weight. If you put a muscle in a disadvenatages leverage position-Ass on the floor-It would require different strength and more than if you keep it at a advantages position.

Just my Opinion

 

[Rogue]

Take it from the top and re-teach the muscle what it already knows. Devote one or two month doin front squats high reps (15) alternating on the next leg WO with regular squats Moderate rep range. Throw in a couple sets of leg ext. at the end of each training session
Devote 6-8 weeks doing this, it will reshape the most stubborn of tree trunks.
This is not fr the faint harted now... as you have to be able to do at least a month of this consistently to see the desired effect.
I wont charge you anything for this one.