Wake up! (Dante Trudel)

[Doitagain]

If you want TRT never inject 200mg once per week , or 100mg, 50mg 20mg. Just 10mg maximum per day.

I have absolutely no idea why you've quoted my post. Makes no sense whatsoever.
That being said, NO. Interindividual variability kind Sir.

 

[cage99]

Personally I prefer 400mg for my TRT!!!!

Cage

 

[Tomgrass]

What if 10mg a day doesn’t keep an individual at optimal levels where they feel best in a hormone replacement context?

I agree on this as also huge part of trt is how you mentally feel. Being honest if somebody ask me would you trade 5-10 years of life for feeling till end of your days like 20-30 years old i would say 3x yes

 

[totalrecomp]

If 105mg of test a week is giving you issues with lipids and making you have to watch your BP closely it really makes me question your lifestyle and bodyfat. Just being honest.

I thought "TRT" was a life hack / cheat code to eat like the 17 year old me.........................."experts" said so on tocktic!

 

[emeric delczeg]

What if 10mg a day doesn’t keep an individual at optimal levels where they feel best in a hormone replacement context?

10mg will keep every individual in normal range. Very important to inject daily.

 

[totalrecomp]

Do you actually have any background or credentials in this subject or is this just a personal opinion of yours?

I’ll leave this right here for you, but I’ll ask the better question I keep asking others who post stuff like this on this forum- why are you here… that’s rhetorical.

Testosterone Replacement Therapy and Mortality in Older Men - PubMed

While US testosterone prescriptions have tripled in the last decade with lower trends in Europe, debate continues over the risks, benefits and appropriate use of testosterone replacement therapy (TRT). Several authors blame advertising and the availability of more convenient formulations, whilst...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

As I've stated before my area is supplements and those being sold on the site he linked are some of the MOST OVERPRICED hodge podge supplements clearly targeting the VERY non-informed consumer, fucking boils my blood to see this type of shit for easily 300% more than buying them from a reputable company like Now or Jarrow or many others. I would put ZERO stock in ANYTHING that shit site says.

 

[totalrecomp]

thanks for the study. i see what you guys are saying and i agree.... if you are naturally HG (e.g due to illness or age) then raising levels to normal likely wont impact mortality negatively.

So I agree with the study where it notes:
"There is considerable evidence of cardio-metabolic benefits that are shown to reduce cardiovascular risk plus sexual, mood and quality of life changes associated with restoring testosterone levels to the normal range in men with proven HG."

HG for the study is defined as less than 8 nmol/L (230ng/dl) and they say the benefits are from raising from HG to normal range, which it seems they define as above 15 nmol/L (432ng/dl), one goes up to 700.

so if you are saying that naturally you have a level of < 8 nmol/L and you want to raise it to the normal range of 15-24 nmol/L then I would agree this will benefit and not impact your mortality significantly.
but if you have a level of 15 nmol/L naturally and you are going to raise it to 28 nmol/L (trough) and you are saying this will make you live longer than leaving it at 15 i am not sure this study supports that and where we likely diverge.

Worth noting this study didn’t mention anything about the recommended treatment protocol (e.g. a weekly dose with an AI). If they ever do the studies I suspect that the most beneficial protocol will be as close to natural as possible (e.g. daily with no AI).
I also agree with this from the study:

"There is a considerable body of evidence that low testosterone is associated with increased cardiovascular mortality and reduced quality of life. Whilst it is unclear whether low testosterone is a ‘‘risk factor’’, it is clear that it is a ‘‘marker’’ of increased risk"

Now that is absolute horseshit, reduced quality of life? Are you serious? So all these folks just keep pinning away despite a "reduced quality of life?" Please stop.

 

[SouthernMuscle]

“10mg will keep every individual in normal range. Very important to inject daily.”

It ain’t what you don’t know that gets you into trouble. It’s what you know for sure that just ain’t so.

 

[Vanilla Thunder]

10mg will keep every individual in normal range. Very important to inject daily.

That's not true. There's a hugely individual response that makes absolute statements like this dumb. 150mg/wk puts me at 1100-1200 4 days after an injection. My training partner is on 250mg / wk and he barely breaks 500 (and he has higher estrogen than me). We both get our test Rx from Wells Pharmacy. 70mg of Test a week and he's in the shitter.

 

[KingOfSushi]

10mg will keep every individual in normal range. Very important to inject daily.

Ok. That didn’t answer my question but it’s fine.

 

[KillerStack]

As I've stated before my area is supplements and those being sold on the site he linked are some of the MOST OVERPRICED hodge podge supplements clearly targeting the VERY non-informed consumer, fucking boils my blood to see this type of shit for easily 300% more than buying them from a reputable company like Now or Jarrow or many others. I would put ZERO stock in ANYTHING that shit site says.

I always get frustrated when new studies come out saying 85% of supplements do not conform to label claims and/or contain undisclosed drugs. Obviously the contamination is going to be high when you look at just "muscle building supplements" or "herbal supps for sex drive" but still.

I've been enjoying a certain posters posts on reddit. He seems to know his shit, but he has his own supp company so factor that in. But he says he has very extensive testing of a ton of competitors products and he says not a single one has always met label claims, except one, Thorne. "So far."
Problem for me is that Thorne is about 3x the price of other supp brands lol. I think there were a few Thorne fans here.

Maybe this is not interesting to most but maybe someone here cares mildly. One infuriating example he mention is these chelated minerals. He says most of the time a magnesium compound, say mag malate, is just magnesium and malate mixed together, not what the sell it as, and the mag is probably just mag oxide with shit bioavailability.

One highly interesting case, at least to me, was this "turkesterone" craze. Turns out, what the poster asserted long ago, turned out to be true, there is ZERO real turkesterone on the market. Now did these supp companies apologise, recall product, give refunds etc? Of course not. One example concerns "our" circle, JP continues to sell "turkesterone" from what I saw last time I checked. I saw someone suggest testing Emeric's Ecdy supp but I don't know if he ever did, he doesn't mention names a lot of the time but he's also said anyone is welcome to sue him.

The poster on reddit calls himself MisterYouAreSoDumb.
Here's him talking about his testing testing lab. If some of the sciency guys here takes a look I'd be interested in opinions. I'm too stupid to know how to give a link to the actual threads, but he has one on turkesterone from 2 years back and one on "independent testing" one year ago.

 

[bjjgear]

I always get frustrated when new studies come out saying 85% of supplements do not conform to label claims and/or contain undisclosed drugs. Obviously the contamination is going to be high when you look at just "muscle building supplements" or "herbal supps for sex drive" but still.

I've been enjoying a certain posters posts on reddit. He seems to know his shit, but he has his own supp company so factor that in. But he says he has very extensive testing of a ton of competitors products and he says not a single one has always met label claims, except one, Thorne. "So far."
Problem for me is that Thorne is about 3x the price of other supp brands lol. I think there were a few Thorne fans here.

Maybe this is not interesting to most but maybe someone here cares mildly. One infuriating example he mention is these chelated minerals. He says most of the time a magnesium compound, say mag malate, is just magnesium and malate mixed together, not what the sell it as, and the mag is probably just mag oxide with shit bioavailability.

One highly interesting case, at least to me, was this "turkesterone" craze. Turns out, what the poster asserted long ago, turned out to be true, there is ZERO real turkesterone on the market. Now did these supp companies apologise, recall product, give refunds etc? Of course not. One example concerns "our" circle, JP continues to sell "turkesterone" from what I saw last time I checked. I saw someone suggest testing Emeric's Ecdy supp but I don't know if he ever did, he doesn't mention names a lot of the time but he's also said anyone is welcome to sue him.

The poster on reddit calls himself MisterYouAreSoDumb.
Here's him talking about his testing testing lab. If some of the sciency guys here takes a look I'd be interested in opinions. I'm too stupid to know how to give a link to the actual threads, but he has one on turkesterone from 2 years back and one on "independent testing" one year ago.

If there’s a Thorne option I always take it. They don’t have everything unfortunately.

 

[bbxtreme]

I always get frustrated when new studies come out saying 85% of supplements do not conform to label claims and/or contain undisclosed drugs. Obviously the contamination is going to be high when you look at just "muscle building supplements" or "herbal supps for sex drive" but still.

I've been enjoying a certain posters posts on reddit. He seems to know his shit, but he has his own supp company so factor that in. But he says he has very extensive testing of a ton of competitors products and he says not a single one has always met label claims, except one, Thorne. "So far."
Problem for me is that Thorne is about 3x the price of other supp brands lol. I think there were a few Thorne fans here.

Maybe this is not interesting to most but maybe someone here cares mildly. One infuriating example he mention is these chelated minerals. He says most of the time a magnesium compound, say mag malate, is just magnesium and malate mixed together, not what the sell it as, and the mag is probably just mag oxide with shit bioavailability.

One highly interesting case, at least to me, was this "turkesterone" craze. Turns out, what the poster asserted long ago, turned out to be true, there is ZERO real turkesterone on the market. Now did these supp companies apologise, recall product, give refunds etc? Of course not. One example concerns "our" circle, JP continues to sell "turkesterone" from what I saw last time I checked. I saw someone suggest testing Emeric's Ecdy supp but I don't know if he ever did, he doesn't mention names a lot of the time but he's also said anyone is welcome to sue him.

The poster on reddit calls himself MisterYouAreSoDumb.
Here's him talking about his testing testing lab. If some of the sciency guys here takes a look I'd be interested in opinions. I'm too stupid to know how to give a link to the actual threads, but he has one on turkesterone from 2 years back and one on "independent testing" one year ago.

There are bad eggs in every bunch. Meaning are there companies out there whose labels don’t conform to the certificate of analysis (COA)? Yes.

Thanks to Amazon and other companies third party verification is slowly becoming a new norm in the supplement industry. You’re not going to get a fake Eurofins or NSF third party test.

But on the other side for people who complain about cost- third party testing and high quality ingredients that are not from China are expensive.

Looking for mineral sources such as Albion should be a staple as they will be trademarked on the label and that’s only cleared by Balchem. Thorne uses them as a supplier as do the top brands. It’s the only minerals I personally trust.

The answer in this situation is consumers need to stop trusting website landing pages and ask for COA’s and third party testing.

Sadly most people just look at the website copy and price. The FDA does oversee this industry, but there are far too many brands compared to FDA reps to chase them all down.

But let’s not derail this thread with this subject.

 

[DOGGCRAPP]

Ok can i comment on this really quick and then let you guys get back to some of the original content. Killerstack I run a manufacturing facility.FDA comes in all the time. Audits, batch, testing, SOP's the whole gamut. I have an internal lab, I have a full quality control crew. FTIR Spect machines, incubators (background in the pic of my crew), again the whole gamut. Obviously if you run a legit enterprise you test for Potency, Purity, Identity and follow GMP all things 111. Do you know what the problem is when you have a first party lab like I do and also (the Nootropics Depot guy you are talking about above does)? You own the lab. How is that a checksafe? You need an outside lab to be the checksafe of the internal lab and vice versa. So i use my first party lab to keep the 3rd party lab legitimate. So every material that comes in gets sent out to one of our 3rd party labs and I make sure they arent just cashing checks and letting things go thru with some of the first party lab testing we do. I have caught one lab 2 times having different results than us. They passed it, my internal lab said it failed. Vendor gets notified, material gets sent back, money returned. Checksafe. Now if i am keeping external labs legit, what can you do with "Shhhhh just pass it thru" if you own the lab?!?! I am not saying thats rampant but heck you have to have a checksafe system here. With that said I have used Nootropics Depot products and think they run a highly legit company.

 

[emeric delczeg]

That's not true. There's a hugely individual response that makes absolute statements like this dumb. 150mg/wk puts me at 1100-1200 4 days after an injection. My training partner is on 250mg / wk and he barely breaks 500 (and he has higher estrogen than me). We both get our test Rx from Wells Pharmacy. 70mg of Test a week and he's in the shitter.

The problem is that you did the blood test 4 days after , next time have the blood test 12 hours after injection, 150mg will have you over 2000. Also try it with 10mg and 12 hours after injection.

 

[emeric delczeg]

Ok. That didn’t answer my question but it’s fine.

What was your question?

 

[Vanilla Thunder]

The problem is that you did the blood test 4 days after , next time have the blood test 12 hours after injection, 150mg will have you over 2000. Also try it with 10mg and 12 hours after injection.

I don't shoot 150 1x/wk. I shoot 50 3x/wk. When I do bloods I take a shot Sunday, draw blood Wednesday morning and take the next shot that afternoon. Has nothing to do with it, it's cyp.

 

[nothuman]

You have a point, blanket statements are wrong. Well done, I feel pretty dumb now.

I wish more people would respond like this.

It doesn't show weakness. It actually shows strength.

 

[Mufasa123]

I wish more people would respond like this.

It doesn't show weakness. It actually shows strength.

Absolutely. While we are humans/pack animals and we naturally feel comfort being part of consensus or in agreement with another, I have always said, "The most valuable thing I can hear is the well articulated and supported counted-argument to exactly what I believe."

Every opinion I have is open to revision based on more information. I step back, think and revise as I feel appropriate. Granted sometimes a counter argument in my opinion may not have merit or be sufficient to alter my view but good ones allow me to better hone and narrow down key areas and differentiation and support. Invaluable for me personally and my work.

 

[nidnoy]

I wish more people would respond like this.

It doesn't show weakness. It actually shows strength.

It also helps when the other guy is forgiving and gracious. Sourhernmuscle is a good dude and even was kind enough to give brief and kindly put explanation and educating me. He did well both in the thread and through pm and I am not quite as dumb as I used to be. I appreciate how he handled things.