Want to increase free T3

homonunculus · Jun 30, 2018

nothuman said:
Latest set of bloods. I'm on 2.5iu HGH

TSH: 1.78
Free T4: 1.5
Free T3: 2.68

I would like to get my Free T3 into the 3.2-4 range without altering my TSH and Free T4 much. Would 12.5mcg of Cytomel do the trick and what level would I likely have of Free T3 using this dose?

What's the overall goal here?... (If you really knew for sure that raising free T3 that much without altering TSH and T4 would bring about what you're wanting to here, you'd probably already have the intimate knowledge of thyroid metabolism to answer the question you actually asked...

)

-S

G.I.Bro · Jun 30, 2018

homonunculus said:
What's the overall goal here?... (If you really knew for sure that raising free T3 that much without altering TSH and T4 would bring about what you're wanting to here, you'd probably already have the intimate knowledge of thyroid metabolism to answer the question you actually asked... )

-S

Post more here Scott!

nothuman · Jul 1, 2018

homonunculus said:
What's the overall goal here?... (If you really knew for sure that raising free T3 that much without altering TSH and T4 would bring about what you're wanting to here, you'd probably already have the intimate knowledge of thyroid metabolism to answer the question you actually asked... )

-S

Ultimate goal is to have all my thyroid numbers in the optimal range (not just normal range). If you have any advice for me, I’d love to hear it. I wouldn’t have made this thread if I knew how to accomplish this on my own.

Thebigone · Jul 1, 2018

nothuman said:
How much? I'm already taking some

Then I'll get fat. I eat more than I should be as it is.

Did you ever get iodine test it? How much are using? Iodine doses very greatly from 150mcg up to 50 mg for some people.

Zinc play is a pretty big role

https://thyroidadvisor.com/effects-zinc-thyroid/

Also the balance of neurosteroids like DHEA, progesterone and pregnenolone Have an impact on thyroid function

nothuman · Jul 2, 2018

Thebigone said:
Did you ever get iodine test it? How much are using? Iodine doses very greatly from 150mcg up to 50 mg for some people.

Zinc play is a pretty big role

https://thyroidadvisor.com/effects-zinc-thyroid/

Also the balance of neurosteroids like DHEA, progesterone and pregnenolone Have an impact on thyroid function

I’m on 1000mcg of iodine but haven’t tested for it. I started DHEA at 25mg last week when I only score 216 on the DHEA-S test. Zinc, I use religiously before bed.

homonunculus · Jul 2, 2018

nothuman said:
Ultimate goal is to have all my thyroid numbers in the optimal range (not just normal range). If you have any advice for me, I’d love to hear it. I wouldn’t have made this thread if I knew how to accomplish this on my own.

I was asking if there is some expected health benefit (a sense of energy, a sense of well-being) or a body composition benefit (you suspect you'll be leaner, be a able to eat more, be able to gain a better ratio of muscle / fat) you're hoping will come along with a higher T3 level?...

Another way of getting at what I'm asking is, if you didn't have any bloodwork to go by, why would you have thought to look at your thyroid hormone levels?... (Did some set of signs / symptoms tip you off that it's not optimal?...)

If the ultimate goal is simply to have a higher T3 value (regardless of how that might impact metabolism, body comp. or what have you), then not using GH or perhaps including more carbohydrate in the diet might bring about this effect. Exogenous T3 may reduce TSH.

(You've got some good info. here as far at being sure your zinc and iodine impact your thyroid metabolism.) You can do your own blood testing, e.g., for selenium, on your own. (This is true for most blood testing.)

But, no, as far as actual advice, please don't take any of this as advice per se. That's not my intent. Just trying to help you out with your quandary.

-S

nothuman · Jul 2, 2018

homonunculus said:
I was asking if there is some expected health benefit (a sense of energy, a sense of well-being) or a body composition benefit (you suspect you'll be leaner, be a able to eat more, be able to gain a better ratio of muscle / fat) you're hoping will come along with a higher T3 level?...

Another way of getting at what I'm asking is, if you didn't have any bloodwork to go by, why would you have thought to look at your thyroid hormone levels?... (Did some set of signs / symptoms tip you off that it's not optimal?...)

If the ultimate goal is simply to have a higher T3 value (regardless of how that might impact metabolism, body comp. or what have you), then not using GH or perhaps including more carbohydrate in the diet might bring about this effect. Exogenous T3 may reduce TSH.

(You've got some good info. here as far at being sure your zinc and iodine impact your thyroid metabolism.) You can do your own blood testing, e.g., for selenium, on your own. (This is true for most blood testing.)

But, no, as far as actual advice, please don't take any of this as advice per se. That's not my intent. Just trying to help you out with your quandary.

-S

Ok full story is I have been having symptoms of extreme light headedness (sometimes will last for days) and all day burping that is sometimes, so bad that I feel like I'm being choked. Add a dose of fatigue and I am wondering what the hell is going on. I had a bunch of bloods recently that were exceptionally good, but didn't get everything tested. I made an appt with my endo to get thyroid, dhea, test, estradiol, etc. tested to see if there was anything there to indicate why I'm dealing with these symptoms. I actually think I have candida or sibo after doing research (gut/yeast infection for those who are unaware. Seeing another doctor Tuesday to do a stool test). I know it's not a supplement I take since I've tried testing out removing things and symptoms never improved.

I do not think the low-ish Free T3 is behind anything other than maybe losing out on some extra energy. I figure I will see if there is a safe and effective way to bring my free T3 into the optimal range regardless, because why settle for less? People here wouldn't want to live with low test, so why live with less than optimal thyroid function?

Thebigone · Jul 2, 2018

nothuman said:
Ok full story is I have been having symptoms of extreme light headedness (sometimes will last for days) and all day burping that is sometimes, so bad that I feel like I'm being choked. Add a dose of fatigue and I am wondering what the hell is going on. I had a bunch of bloods recently that were exceptionally good, but didn't get everything tested. I made an appt with my endo to get thyroid, dhea, test, estradiol, etc. tested to see if there was anything there to indicate why I'm dealing with these symptoms. I actually think I have candida or sibo after doing research (gut/yeast infection for those who are unaware. Seeing another doctor Tuesday to do a stool test). I know it's not a supplement I take since I've tried testing out removing things and symptoms never improved.

I do not think the low-ish Free T3 is behind anything other than maybe losing out on some extra energy. I figure I will see if there is a safe and effective way to bring my free T3 into the optimal range regardless, because why settle for less? People here wouldn't want to live with low test, so why live with less than optimal thyroid function?

Maybe look into Bpc 157. It has extreme Gastro healing properties along with several neurotransmitters. Also all the dose is used in the studies were only 10mcg/kg so typically only 100mcg/day is needed.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/1345210/

Look in the article section for more info on its properties.

joe1988 · Jul 2, 2018

Shooting for a number of free t3 can be difficult because of its pharmacokinetic profile. If you take 12.5mcg you could be over the range for a few hours before it drops back down. Some people take it twice a day. I take 5 mcg once a day along with 50 mcg t4. If you test your levels before taking your cytomel the levels will be lower than ideal. If you test your levels before taking the cytomel and your levels are already high normal then for sure you will be over the range for most of the day.

Thebigone · Jul 2, 2018

T3 can still suppress natural production for 2-3 days

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5167556/

nothuman · Jul 2, 2018

Thebigone said:
Maybe look into Bpc 157. It has extreme Gastro healing properties along with several neurotransmitters. Also all the dose is used in the studies were only 10mcg/kg so typically only 100mcg/day is needed.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/1345210/

Look in the article section for more info on its properties.

Funny you should suggest this. I tried BPC 157 for it and it didn't work at all for this. Zero relief. I didn't realize only 100mcg daily was necessary though. That's good news because this makes it more affordable long term.

nothuman · Jul 2, 2018

joe1988 said:
Shooting for a number of free t3 can be difficult because of its pharmacokinetic profile. If you take 12.5mcg you could be over the range for a few hours before it drops back down. Some people take it twice a day. I take 5 mcg once a day along with 50 mcg t4. If you test your levels before taking your cytomel the levels will be lower than ideal. If you test your levels before taking the cytomel and your levels are already high normal then for sure you will be over the range for most of the day.

Good info to think about next time I get my thyroid tested. Thanks

Kaladryn · Jul 2, 2018

nothuman said:
Ok full story is I have been having symptoms of extreme light headedness (sometimes will last for days) and all day burping that is sometimes, so bad that I feel like I'm being choked. Add a dose of fatigue and I am wondering what the hell is going on. I had a bunch of bloods recently that were exceptionally good, but didn't get everything tested. I made an appt with my endo to get thyroid, dhea, test, estradiol, etc. tested to see if there was anything there to indicate why I'm dealing with these symptoms. I actually think I have candida or sibo after doing research (gut/yeast infection for those who are unaware. Seeing another doctor Tuesday to do a stool test). I know it's not a supplement I take since I've tried testing out removing things and symptoms never improved.

I do not think the low-ish Free T3 is behind anything other than maybe losing out on some extra energy. I figure I will see if there is a safe and effective way to bring my free T3 into the optimal range regardless, because why settle for less? People here wouldn't want to live with low test, so why live with less than optimal thyroid function?

T3 levels change based on stress and calorie intake. You can get your levels up the high end of normal range just through diet. Do you really want to be on thyroid for the rest of your life?

nothuman · Jul 3, 2018

Kaladryn said:
T3 levels change based on stress and calorie intake. You can get your levels up the high end of normal range just through diet. Do you really want to be on thyroid for the rest of your life?

No not really, but what dietary changes could I possibly change in order to help? It's not like I'm the classic fat sedentary guy sitting at a desk eating cookies. That being said, my calories are pretty high (don't count but probably 3500 on average). What specific diet do you suggest?

homonunculus · Jul 3, 2018

nothuman said:
Ok full story is I have been having symptoms of extreme light headedness (sometimes will last for days) and all day burping that is sometimes, so bad that I feel like I'm being choked. Add a dose of fatigue and I am wondering what the hell is going on. I had a bunch of bloods recently that were exceptionally good, but didn't get everything tested. I made an appt with my endo to get thyroid, dhea, test, estradiol, etc. tested to see if there was anything there to indicate why I'm dealing with these symptoms. I actually think I have candida or sibo after doing research (gut/yeast infection for those who are unaware. Seeing another doctor Tuesday to do a stool test). I know it's not a supplement I take since I've tried testing out removing things and symptoms never improved.

I do not think the low-ish Free T3 is behind anything other than maybe losing out on some extra energy. I figure I will see if there is a safe and effective way to bring my free T3 into the optimal range regardless, because why settle for less? People here wouldn't want to live with low test, so why live with less than optimal thyroid function?

Well, it would make sense to me to treat to root of your symptoms, which seem to be gastrointestinal, rather than related specifically due to low thyroid output.

If you were to reduce you fatigue by (artificially) elevating your T3, you could be masking symptoms of an underlying pathology (SIBO or some other GI disorder or something else) and thus making matters worse.

Hopefully, you get some answers from the stool test.

FYI: **broken link removed**

-S

Kaladryn · Jul 3, 2018

nothuman said:
No not really, but what dietary changes could I possibly change in order to help? It's not like I'm the classic fat sedentary guy sitting at a desk eating cookies. That being said, my calories are pretty high (don't count but probably 3500 on average). What specific diet do you suggest?

meal frequency, balanced macros, and calorie total would be what I would say would increase thyroid output. You may have to eat slightly more than maintenance and gain a very small amount fat, but it could be a tinny amount if you are careful.

Look at it this way: you can never eat the "perfect" number of calories, you will always be either overeating or undereating, it's impossible to get it perfect, so if you are always slightly undereating to prevent fat gain, you will lower your metabolism, if you slightly overeat (with the right macros and frequency) you will increase your metabolism.

This assumes you don't have underlying issues or substances impacting your thyroid level, which could be the case.

Sure you could take thyroid for a while and get lean, but eventually, you will probably want to go off, gain a little fat and get that metabolism and thyroid going again.

nothuman · Jul 3, 2018

homonunculus said:
Well, it would make sense to me to treat to root of your symptoms, which seem to be gastrointestinal, rather than related specifically due to low thyroid output.

If you were to reduce you fatigue by (artificially) elevating your T3, you could be masking symptoms of an underlying pathology (SIBO or some other GI disorder or something else) and thus making matters worse.

Hopefully, you get some answers from the stool test.

FYI: **broken link removed**

-S

Thanks Dr. Stevenson. I appreciate your input and that link. To be clear, I was separating the sort-of thyroid issue from the potential candida/sibo I might have but that link looks like they may be related. My main focus is to get rid of whatever it is I have. It's pretty disabling at times.

Kaladryn said:
meal frequency, balanced macros, and calorie total would be what I would say would increase thyroid output. You may have to eat slightly more than maintenance and gain a very small amount fat, but it could be a tinny amount if you are careful.

Look at it this way: you can never eat the "perfect" number of calories, you will always be either overeating or undereating, it's impossible to get it perfect, so if you are always slightly undereating to prevent fat gain, you will lower your metabolism, if you slightly overeat (with the right macros and frequency) you will increase your metabolism.

This assumes you don't have underlying issues or substances impacting your thyroid level, which could be the case.

Sure you could take thyroid for a while and get lean, but eventually, you will probably want to go off, gain a little fat and get that metabolism and thyroid going again.

I see. So I'm better off just accepting a normal but below optimal free T3 since the alternative isn't sustainable is what I am gathering from this. I take 1000mcg iodine and wonder if more could help.

I will also bring this up with the osteopath I am seeing tomorrow. Unsure how deep his knowledge of thyroid hormones is.

nothuman · Jul 3, 2018

homonunculus said:
Well, it would make sense to me to treat to root of your symptoms, which seem to be gastrointestinal, rather than related specifically due to low thyroid output.

If you were to reduce you fatigue by (artificially) elevating your T3, you could be masking symptoms of an underlying pathology (SIBO or some other GI disorder or something else) and thus making matters worse.

Hopefully, you get some answers from the stool test.

FYI: **broken link removed**

-S

Kaladryn said:
meal frequency, balanced macros, and calorie total would be what I would say would increase thyroid output. You may have to eat slightly more than maintenance and gain a very small amount fat, but it could be a tinny amount if you are careful.

Look at it this way: you can never eat the "perfect" number of calories, you will always be either overeating or undereating, it's impossible to get it perfect, so if you are always slightly undereating to prevent fat gain, you will lower your metabolism, if you slightly overeat (with the right macros and frequency) you will increase your metabolism.

This assumes you don't have underlying issues or substances impacting your thyroid level, which could be the case.

Sure you could take thyroid for a while and get lean, but eventually, you will probably want to go off, gain a little fat and get that metabolism and thyroid going again.