Way too many health issues on the boards the past few years...why?

[Tyrone]

I agree with many. Big A, LATS, and Jello jump out at me first. It's not always AAS although some contributions can contribute. Environment and heredity will always be the main factors IMO.

Glad to see you BN...Please become openly involved more often, if at all possible.

Thanks brother!

 

[maldorf]

I agree with many. Big A, LATS, and Jello jump out at me first. It's not always AAS although some contributions can contribute. Environment and heredity will always be the main factors IMO.

With those that have some hereditary factors going on, the taking of AAS will either bring on health problems at a much younger age than normal or make an event that might not have happened at all happen. It really ups the ante, especially used at the dosages a lot of us use it at.

In a perfect world, all users would have a full checkup before they embark on using steroids. Running a CBC, doing the DNA work for coagulation problems, etc. Have all the potential risks analyzed fully. The problem is that none of us do that, and 2-5% of us having these genetic condtions that lead to hypercoagulability and then others have gentic traits that lend different risks. Just the 2-5% or so from the blood disorders is high enough to make a significant risk IMO, and thats not counting all of the other gentic traits that lend more risk that might be magnified by the use of AAS.

 

[BigChef]

BN welcome back bro. Good to see you posting again. We all missed you.

 

[BALDNAZI]

Thanks to all my old friends for saying hello. Life is so freaking busy I wish I could post more often, but I am definitely keeping up with the board. No worries.

As to the thread, I agree that it is a numbers game and of course more people juicing more problems. BUT it wasnt too long ago that MANY people on these boards denied that steroids contributed to any health problems. It was taboo to say so.

Even when my liver blew up I was getting people saying that it was coincidence and "how could you say it was the gear, there is no proof" etc etc
In my case it was 100% MY ABUSE of the compounds, no ifs ands or buts. Again, it was my doing.

But as I stated there are many cases where people are not abusing and things are still happening. Thats where I was curious. Genetics must play a role along with lifestyle as was stated.

Just thinking out loud when I started the thread, but the answers are definitely in front of all of us. I care about our community, just want to make sure all of us are getting our bloods done and scans as well. If your going to play with the drugs, please be smart about it...

 

[maldorf]

Thanks to all my old friends for saying hello. Life is so freaking busy I wish I could post more often, but I am definitely keeping up with the board. No worries.

As to the thread, I agree that it is a numbers game and of course more people juicing more problems. BUT it wasnt too long ago that MANY people on these boards denied that steroids contributed to any health problems. It was taboo to say so.

Even when my liver blew up I was getting people saying that it was coincidence and "how could you say it was the gear, there is no proof" etc etc
In my case it was 100% MY ABUSE of the compounds, no ifs ands or buts. Again, it was my doing.

But as I stated there are many cases where people are not abusing and things are still happening. Thats where I was curious. Genetics must play a role along with lifestyle as was stated.

Just thinking out loud when I started the thread, but the answers are definitely in front of all of us. I care about our community, just want to make sure all of us are getting our bloods done and scans as well. If your going to play with the drugs, please be smart about it...

I had an aquaintance back about 10 years ago or so that ended up having to have a good part of his liver removed too. He told me that he had it done because he donated part of his liver to his mother. Back then it never occured to me that he might have been lying. I was like most and thought that the risks of AAS were all media hype and bullshit. When I read on here about what happend to you a light bulb turned on in my head and I began to wonder about the guy I knew.
I too am glad that you came back to make this post.

 

[LEX]

Thanks to all my old friends for saying hello. Life is so freaking busy I wish I could post more often, but I am definitely keeping up with the board. No worries.

As to the thread, I agree that it is a numbers game and of course more people juicing more problems. BUT it wasnt too long ago that MANY people on these boards denied that steroids contributed to any health problems. It was taboo to say so.

Even when my liver blew up I was getting people saying that it was coincidence and "how could you say it was the gear, there is no proof" etc etc
In my case it was 100% MY ABUSE of the compounds, no ifs ands or buts. Again, it was my doing.

But as I stated there are many cases where people are not abusing and things are still happening. Thats where I was curious. Genetics must play a role along with lifestyle as was stated.

Just thinking out loud when I started the thread, but the answers are definitely in front of all of us. I care about our community, just want to make sure all of us are getting our bloods done and scans as well. If your going to play with the drugs, please be smart about it...

well let's not say 100%...maybe the leading contributing factor? yes ...could of been a perfect combo of everything? dunno
...this is one of the problems...we really don't have enough documented cases.... just the raw data to say ...hey if you do this ...this will happen......
don't get me wrong BN....I mean didn't we learn from you that blood work is a GREAT idea but to monitor your liver for what happened to you one would need ultrasounds?
what we really need is someone to take all of these reports and document them with real blood work and results all the clinical details...its a huge task to compile that kinda shit...and most of the people proly wouldn't be either honest or helpful in giving all the details ... thats really the only way we can answer stuff like if I take x and x mg's what are my chances...

I mean most of us that are still alive and healthy could help by saying be sane...but one guys sane is someone's scary...

 

[Stewie Griffon]

Are all of these things because of anabolics and the lifestyle? Maybe not, but for someone who has been down that road, is it just coincidence? Would like to hear your thoughts...

it APPEARS to be because of anabolic, when its not - its only that we are informed because we read the board. for example many horrific crimes have happened for 1000s of years. to some it appears that crime is worse than it was years ago when in reality its only because we are able to know what has transpired across the globe instantaneously because of technology. years ago crap would happen across the globe and we lived totally oblivious to it

if you take the statistical rate of occurrence of all health ailments of societies of industrialized countries, and compare that to the rate of occurrence of health ailments of the bodybuilding community across the world, you would find that we sure are a healthy bunch compared to the average individual.

it is because we care so much for our health that we tend to share our info with others so that they may learn from what has happened to us. this may make it seem like we have more problems, that is not that case

 

[ericraven2003]

How could anyone think that large doses over years is not harmful? Shit. Drink a fifth of vodka a day for 5 years, and see how your body fares. Its the same concept. Putting large amounts of hormones in your body over years cant be good. Thats just common sense. Or should I say lack of it.

 

[morepain]

To BN...we talked about this once in the past , our paths were very similar and for years i measured my anabolic intake in bottles per week not milligrams, LOL. thanks to guys like you and also maldorf i opened my eyes before it was too late. I now have extensive labs 4 times per year...luckily for me even while extremely abusing these compounds i had no real issues...other than the fact that they could not believe my test levels and kept having it re-checked at the lab (it was near 10000). Regardless i stopped all the stupid shit and while i will never be completely off i work with a specialist that keeps me right on the high end of normal as long as we find no negative indicators on my blood work. I think Big A is right in that alot of it is jsut a bigger statitical data set, but also many of us that abused for years are "coming of age" where we start to see these problems. I personally have lost three friends in their thirties to heart attacks and to pretend that being 300lbs and on juice year round was not a factor is kind of silly. Anyway again i extend my well wishes and a huge thank you to both you and Maldorf for sharing your stories. One final note...i still maintain 250 plus year round, leaner, and healthier than ever before...so to those ccontemplating changing their lifestyle its not the end of your bodybuilding its just a new path!

 

[maldorf]

Anyway again i extend my well wishes and a huge thank you to both you and Maldorf for sharing your stories. One final note...i still maintain 250 plus year round, leaner, and healthier than ever before...so to those ccontemplating changing their lifestyle its not the end of your bodybuilding its just a new path!

Thanks for the good words. I know for certain that if I had just escaped a heart attack and just had a clot somewhere benign like in the leg that my health would be much better than it was in the past. I have still managed to maintain some size on just my 120mg/wk test and not even lifting heavy. To the average joe I still look huge and in shape. Everone is shocked when I tell them about my heart attack and how Im looking at a heart transplant in the next 10 years or so. That's why I liked how you said that your bodybuilding lifestyle isnt over, it just takes a new path.

 

[Emery]

How could anyone think that large doses over years is not harmful? Shit. Drink a fifth of vodka a day for 5 years, and see how your body fares. Its the same concept. Putting large amounts of hormones in your body over years cant be good. Thats just common sense. Or should I say lack of it.

Very true! Some people can abuse their livers for years... We all know people that are in 70s + that smoke/drink and have their whole lives. Some just have the genetics to handle toxins and the abuse of certain chemicals... others don't. It's kind of a crap shoot! I know a guy that is in his 60s, lived clean, etc. and now has a disease related to his time in Vietnam. He is dying and it just isn't fair, but that is life. None of us knows the when or why of our mortality. We certainly know that things can contribute to the disease process but, just because we do or don't do something doesn't mean we are safe or doomed.

Life is a crap shoot, even on the best days. I want to live a long life but when I do leave this world, I want to leave it in a completely worn out body that has experienced everything that I wanted to experience!

 

[Anafit]

The answer is kind of what Big A said. The reason it seems like so many people have ailments is that those are the people who post. Your sampling is skewed. People don't come on a board and post, "hey, I'm healthy". They post when they have a problem. I had this come up before so I counted the number of people who had high blood pressure on my board, as an example, and then counted the people who were on the board for that year. The percentage was within 2% of the national average. But it doesn't look that way because no one posted "I don't have high blood pressure" as a topic during the sample year. When you have board as vast as this one it's amplified even more.

I'm not saying that steroid use can't be a contributing factor to many of the problems. It can, especially with so many not using an AI all the time. But as someone else posted genetic disposition plays a huge roll in determining who has a given side and who doesn't. That's why it doesn't make sense to read the board and change your cycle because you saw someone had a particular side effect. They're not you.

 

[minister]

Now days we have more AAs users than ever before, I read in a study that over 10 million people are on steroids in Th US, both prescribed and not prescribed, and in this age of the world wide net info, and the lack of knowledge of the medical community about anything related to gear, we seek information on the boards, where we have a lot of guys that have been around and have experience just about every side effect there is known to man, and have experienced treatments and know about supplements to control side effects, so it is only natural that we seek for answers here when we experience adverse effects. However I agree with Big A and some of the others when blaming lack of precaution and simply keeping doses at reasonable amounts would diminish the amount of casualties. But to be honest given the big amount of men and women on gear I think the serious cases are few and far in between. God bless you brothers.

 

[ericraven2003]

Very true! Some people can abuse their livers for years... We all know people that are in 70s + that smoke/drink and have their whole lives. Some just have the genetics to handle toxins and the abuse of certain chemicals... others don't. It's kind of a crap shoot! I know a guy that is in his 60s, lived clean, etc. and now has a disease related to his time in Vietnam. He is dying and it just isn't fair, but that is life. None of us knows the when or why of our mortality. We certainly know that things can contribute to the disease process but, just because we do or don't do something doesn't mean we are safe or doomed.

Life is a crap shoot, even on the best days. I want to live a long life but when I do leave this world, I want to leave it in a completely worn out body that has experienced everything that I wanted to experience!

I don't care about quantity, but I do want to be in good health for my age in my 60's. Still able to do things I want. Excess in any part of our life is not good.

 

[dragonfire101]

Good to see yuo posting Bro.

Like many others said it could be a combination of things. Yes the internet has increased the amount of people on the boards, but I don’t think that it. I think the internet has made gear more available to more people and where seeing the side effects now from the first generation of mass internet uses since they had the past 10-12 years to use. A lot of boards came up in around 98 and gear was more available.

That’s 10 year s now that the first wave of internet/ gear users had messing with gear and there probably all over 30 now and sides are catching up to them.

Yes maybe you have more people using as well now, but I don’t think we will see those peoples health risk until they are over or around 30. You can blame it on predisposition or whatever. Fact is lot of people aren’t going to know their predisposition until 10 years later after gear use those past 10 years and until something happens. They may never had clots though or tumors etc.. or other health issues if they never used.

It’s the same with many diseases. You can have a predisposition to an autoimmune disease, but never may develop it if the trigger is not activated. Could be a car crash that left you months in the hospital, stress out given various medications for months and that trigger the autoimmune disease to activate.

So I believe gear can cause side effects directly over years and indirectly by being a trigger mechanism for predisposition to diseases. Either way after 10 years of use and lot of people now over 30 on the board s and still using increases their chances I believe directly and indirectly.

 

[dragonfire101]

The answer is kind of what Big A said. The reason it seems like so many people have ailments is that those are the people who post. Your sampling is skewed. People don't come on a board and post, "hey, I'm healthy". They post when they have a problem. I had this come up before so I counted the number of people who had high blood pressure on my board, as an example, and then counted the people who were on the board for that year. The percentage was within 2% of the national average. But it doesn't look that way because no one posted "I don't have high blood pressure" as a topic during the sample year. When you have board as vast as this one it's amplified even more.

I'm not saying that steroid use can't be a contributing factor to many of the problems. It can, especially with so many not using an AI all the time. But as someone else posted genetic disposition plays a huge roll in determining who has a given side and who doesn't. That's why it doesn't make sense to read the board and change your cycle because you saw someone had a particular side effect. They're not you.

Its not a reason to ignore as well...Many people don't report things also on these boards. I believe the sample is skewed because of that and there is actually a much higher percentage of people on the boards with medical issues /side related to their use.

 

[oldfella]

Good to see you here Bald Nazi!!!

I agreee with Big A on the nymbers game. Also I think that as a community we are ageing, along with age comes a compilation of stats. Let us all not forget that it has not been all that long that studies have actually began on the long term effects of AAS use and abuse. Because it is usually an illegal activity no one was or is willing to talk about it. But now as the years have rolled up we have data to draw from and case histories to use as data. You will not know when you are 20 and hitting the super supps super hard how this will effect you in 20 years! So with the passage of time we start to see the cumulation of years of AAS use and its' effects on people. No not all of what we are reading about from our brothers is gear related, but I am damn sure the gear has not done many of us any facors for our health either. Step out in front of a metro bus and the adverse effects are immediate, Run 3,4,5, or more grams of gear into you and the adverse effects will not become apparent until later, much later.

 

[maldorf]

Its not a reason to ignore as well...Many people don't report things also on these boards. I believe the sample is skewed because of that and there is actually a much higher percentage of people on the boards with medical issues /side related to their use.

Yes, just yesterday another guy thats been a member on here for awhile just announced that he too had suffered a blood clot a number of years ago. Now that some of us are stepping forward and talking about our health problems after using AAS, others now have the courage to come out of the shadows. I believe as time passes more people will feel comfortable on here revealing what happened to them. When you have a severe health problem after using steroids, the individual feels like they will be stigmatized if they annonce it on a bodybuilding board because most of the members will feel like it was either caused by extreme abuse or "bad genes". So the person just keeps quiet about it. After all you "dont know for sure that steroids caused it". There are lots more guys out there that have had problems.

 

[maldorf]

So I believe gear can cause side effects directly over years and indirectly by being a trigger mechanism for predisposition to diseases. Either way after 10 years of use and lot of people now over 30 on the board s and still using increases their chances I believe directly and indirectly.

Good way to view it. It can be just the stimuls needed to pull the trigger on something like a clot, something of which might have never happend without the added stimulus of the AAS. This can happen even when moderate amounts of AAS are used, it doesnt have to be extreme doses of multiple grams per week.

Others that use multiple grams a week for months on end can pull the trigger too because the stimulus is so much bigger.

Some people have a trigger thats easy to pull, and others take just a bit more of a pull.

 

[animal eater]

Good thread here. Clearly there are a multitude of factors. I am a pretty good example that it isn't always gear related with the bilateral pulmonary embolism that I suffered which was do to a child falling asleep on my lap on a long flight. The big take home message is always the same though. If you are going to get into changing what your hormones are naturally doing, do so with blood test so you don't push your luck.