Weird blood work - 7 months of low DHB with TRT

[Zarati]

Been on 30-50mgs of DHB with 80mg of test E for a good 7 months.

Liver and kidneys are in range.
Hematocrit - 49
Glucose - 61 (I was fasting, and worked out on empty stomach for an hour.)


Cholesterol total - 177
Triglycerides - 113
HDL - 33 (I've always had low HDL, genetics. It was 35 on TRT so not much damage there)
VLDL - 21 (range 5-41)
LDL - 122 max is 99
T chol ratio - 5.3 max is 5. Says I'm average risk.

Total testosterone 434
Free testosterone 30 (range 5-26)
SHBG 6
Estradiol 21
Dhea 533 (max is 475)
TSH - 0.7
Free T3 - 3.4 (2 - 4.4)
Igf1 - 301 (max is 290)
Prostate - 0.8 (max is 4)

So bloodwork looks pretty decent. I've always had high IGF1 and high DHEA, cholesterol is always meh but it's because of genetics and I eat alright not the best not the worst. My shbg is usually 9-11 only on TRT. That is usually because of metabolic syndrome but I don't know, I'm very lean and fit

 

[Gizmo]

What’s weird about this blood work?

 

[Matsuo Munefusa]

yeah I don't see anything I would call "weird" - you've crashed your SHBG on DHB and now you're metabolizing your testosterone faster than normal but you have a higher than average free test level because of low SHBG. You need more testosterone to reach normal TRT levels but then because you have low SHBG your estradiol will skyrocket because of so much free Test converting by aromatase. You'll need to run an AI and/or SERM if you increase testosterone dosage because your e2 will rise and your free E2 level will be very high.

Good luck. Having low SHBG sucks. I know because I also have low SHBG.

 

[Matsuo Munefusa]

by the way I wouldn't call IGF level 300 high. I guess you mean higher than an average natural guy? Last time I checked IGF I was at 600 on 4iu GH and 15iu lantus per day.

 

[Type-IIx]

Bloods look great! Good to know low dose 1-Testo is quite mild. You'd be a hyper-responder to rhGH, probably huge benefits from 3.5IU daily.

 

[Zarati]

yeah I don't see anything I would call "weird" - you've crashed your SHBG on DHB and now you're metabolizing your testosterone faster than normal but you have a higher than average free test level because of low SHBG. You need more testosterone to reach normal TRT levels but then because you have low SHBG your estradiol will skyrocket because of so much free Test converting by aromatase. You'll need to run an AI and/or SERM if you increase testosterone dosage because your e2 will rise and your free E2 level will be very high.

Good luck. Having low SHBG sucks. I know because I also have low SHBG.

My shbg is btw 9-11 on TRT without anything so yes I'm low shbg too and yes it sucks, it's supposedly from metabolic syndrome but so far I haven't found anything wrong. Maybe I have high insulin? I don't know.

Why high dhea tho? Not taking any supps

 

[Type-IIx]

Oh, interesting. Some of 1-Testo's metabolites are likely substrates for CYP17 (17alpha-hydroxylation to DHEA) like Proviron's.

 

[MasteroniPepperoni]

Oh, interesting. Some of 1-Testo's metabolites are likely substrates for CYP17 (17alpha-hydroxylation to DHEA) like Proviron's.

Makes sense as the compound 1-DHEA, or 1-andro converts to dhb

Would this cause any dhea related sides ?

 

[Zarati]

I've always had high dhea even without dhb

 

[camy9000]

how do you feel ?

 

[buck]

What is your injection schedule?

 

[Zarati]

how do you feel ?

I feel decent on this protocol

What is your injection schedule?

Test e everyday, dhb twice a week

 

[Zarati]

yeah I don't see anything I would call "weird" - you've crashed your SHBG on DHB and now you're metabolizing your testosterone faster than normal but you have a higher than average free test level because of low SHBG. You need more testosterone to reach normal TRT levels but then because you have low SHBG your estradiol will skyrocket because of so much free Test converting by aromatase. You'll need to run an AI and/or SERM if you increase testosterone dosage because your e2 will rise and your free E2 level will be very high.

Good luck. Having low SHBG sucks. I know because I also have low SHBG.

Have you checked for hyperinsulenimia?

 

[Matsuo Munefusa]

Have you checked for hyperinsulenimia?

no, I haven't but I should. I actually feel MUCH MUCH better on insulin than off.

 

[Type-IIx]

Makes sense as the compound 1-DHEA, or 1-andro converts to dhb

Would this cause any dhea related sides ?

Correct, 1-androstenediol is a 1-Testo prohormone! Patrick Arnold's hit product. And 1-Test (DHB) is technically a 1-androstene (specifically, a member of the class androst-1-ene-3-ones).

Yes, elevated DHEA may cause related sides.

 

[Type-IIx]

@Zarati there are several biosynthetic pathways for DHEA, but it is generally regarded as an adrenal androgen. Have you ever had ACTH or cortisol checked?

 

[MasteroniPepperoni]

Correct, 1-androstenediol is a 1-Testo prohormone! Patrick Arnold's hit product. And 1-Test (DHB) is technically a 1-androstene (specifically, a member of the class androst-1-ene-3-ones).

Yes, elevated DHEA may cause related sides.

So, you think DHB can elevate dhea levels? You mention proviron too. This could technically increase estrogen via having elevated dhea levels? May also decrease cortisol ?

Curious what your thoughts are on 1-andro ...

 

[Reload]

12 mg Test/day gets you to 434?
That's about the only thing that jumps out at me.
Your total is a little low.

10mg/day and I'm low/mid 700.
15mg/day and I'm 900+

 

[Type-IIx]

So, you think DHB can elevate dhea levels?

I think it may in some individuals, similar to Proviron. It comes down to metabolism.

The Δ4 pathway of T biosynthesis ⇒ greater (>) FSH and lesser (<<) DHEA

1-Testo differs from T by lacking the Δ4 double bond, having a 1,2 double bond instead.

Proviron (mesterolone, 1α-methyl-DHT) greatly (>>>) increases DHEA levels in many individuals, either by blocking or inhibition of the Δ5 pathway of T synthesis, or by the activity of its metabolites acting as substrates for CYP17 (17alpha-hydroxylation to DHEA), or both.

Some relevant, likely active metabolites of Proviron are 1α-methyl-5α-androsten-3α,17β-diol and/or 1α-methyl-5α-androstan-3α,17-one. Similarly, some 1-Testo metabolites are 1-epitestosterone, 5α-androst-1-ene-3α-ol-17-one, and some other 3, 17 ketones.

It is noteworthy that the primary metabolite of 1-AD (Patrick Arnold's prohormone) is 5α-androst-1-ene-3α-ol-17-one.

You mention proviron too. This could technically increase estrogen via having elevated dhea levels? May also decrease cortisol ?

Curious what your thoughts are on 1-andro ...

Technically, having elevated DHEA levels could have this effect. But I doubt that this is a major issue with active metabolites in most persons favoring the delta-4 pathway, without knowing the full metabolic breakdown of the metabolites, potency of the metabolites, their activities throughout the body in more detail, it's speculative.

I think 1-Andro was ingenious. I believe Patrick Arnold reverse engineered some old data, recognized that enzymatic interaction (i.e., hydrolysis) at the C-3 ketone would yield 1-Testo. Though I think his ego must have just been massive, he was smart.

I find some of the other compounds from the designer era more fascinating, particularly Epistane, Superdrol, and my favorite, Methylstenbolone.

 

[MasteroniPepperoni]

I think it may in some individuals, similar to Proviron. It comes down to metabolism.

The Δ4 pathway of T biosynthesis ⇒ greater (>) FSH and lesser (<<) DHEA

1-Testo differs from T by lacking the Δ4 double bond, having a 1,2 double bond instead.

Proviron (mesterolone, 1α-methyl-DHT) greatly (>>>) increases DHEA levels in many individuals, either by blocking or inhibition of the Δ5 pathway of T synthesis, or by the activity of its metabolites acting as substrates for CYP17 (17alpha-hydroxylation to DHEA), or both.

Some relevant, likely active metabolites of Proviron are 1α-methyl-5α-androsten-3α,17β-diol and/or 1α-methyl-5α-androstan-3α,17-one. Similarly, some 1-Testo metabolites are 1-epitestosterone, 5α-androst-1-ene-3α-ol-17-one, and some other 3, 17 ketones.

It is noteworthy that the primary metabolite of 1-AD (Patrick Arnold's prohormone) is 5α-androst-1-ene-3α-ol-17-one.

Technically, having elevated DHEA levels could have this effect. But I doubt that this is a major issue with active metabolites in most persons favoring the delta-4 pathway, without knowing the full metabolic breakdown of the metabolites, potency of the metabolites, their activities throughout the body in more detail, it's speculative.

I think 1-Andro was ingenious. I believe Patrick Arnold reverse engineered some old data, recognized that enzymatic interaction (i.e., hydrolysis) at the C-3 ketone would yield 1-Testo. Though I think his ego must have just been massive, he was smart.

I find some of the other compounds from the designer era more fascinating, particularly Epistane, Superdrol, and my favorite, Methylstenbolone.

All that nomenclature is giving me a headache lol. So, the possible dhea elevation could happen , but probably won't be as severe as taking actual dhea unless the individuals metabolism converts the compound dramatically. Yet most likely rare. Guess we have to look deep with these compounds as some will experience strange side effects which aren't associated with the typical ones.

Patrick Arnold is the man

Many love msten and I too am interested in epistane. people love epistane and prefer it over winstrol and anavar. I have heard of gyno reports on epi but also gyno reduction, though. Maybe it was a spiked product vs a legit one.