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Well hoped to not ever have to post this, heart problems help

MethodAir

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"The association between testosterone-replacement therapy and cardiovascular risk remains unclear with most reports suggesting a neutral or possibly beneficial effect of the hormone in men and women. However, several cardiovascular complications including hypertension, cardiomyopathy, stroke, pulmonary embolism, fatal and nonfatal arrhythmias, and myocardial infarction have been reported with supraphysiologic doses of anabolic steroids. We report a case of an acute ST-segment elevation myocardial infarction in a patient with traditional cardiac risk factors using supraphysiologic doses of supplemental, intramuscular testosterone. In addition, this patient also had polycythemia, likely secondary to high-dose testosterone. The patient underwent successful percutaneous intervention of the right coronary artery. Phlebotomy was used to treat the polycythemia acutely. We suggest that the chronic and recent “stacked” use of intramuscular testosterone as well as the resultant polycythemia and likely increased plasma viscosity may have been contributing factors to this cardiovascular event, in addition to traditional coronary risk factors. Physicians and patients should be aware of the clinical consequences of anabolic steroid abuse."
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2663437/


About this subject in the study:

" His physical examination was remarkable for his muscular appearance and a blood pressure of 190/100. He was in mild distress with no signs of heart failure. His blood chemistry revealed a creatinine of 1.3 mg/dl and elevated liver enzymes (aspartate aminotranferease 86 units/L, and alanine aminotransferase 79 units/L). Hematologic studies noted an hemoglobin of 22 g/dl and hematocrit of 63%. The ejection fraction was 35%. The patient was phlebotomized until his resultant hematocrit was 45%."

"Several case reports describe the deleterious cardiac effects of anabolic steroids including its potentially atherogenic and thrombotic properties. These range from lipid disorders to acute myocardial infarction and sudden cardiac death (Kennedy and Lawrence 1993; Hourigan et al 1998; Fineschi et al 2001; Wysoczanski et al 2008). Thromboembolic phenomenoma, intracardiac and peripherally, have been described (McCarthy et al 2000). Cardiomyopathy, cardiomegaly and biventricular dilatation have been associated with AAS use. Mewis and colleagues (1996) demonstrate a case report of a young bodybuilder with severe coronary artery disease with a two-year history of chronic anabolic steroid use. A case control study of 62 male competitive powerlifters notes a possible increase in premature mortality compared with controls (12.9% versus 3.1%) Parssinen et al 2000). Although difficult to quantitate, the increased risk of cardiac disease may be as high 3-fold among individuals who use AAS (Melchert and Welder 1995; Sullivan et al 1998)."

"Development of an atheromatous plaque perpetuates endothelial dysfunction and promotes platelet aggregation and intracoronary thrombus formation (Ajayi et al 1995; Nieminen et al 1996). AAS may cause a hypercoagulable state, by an increase in production of thromboxane A2 and platelet thromboxane A2 receptor density as well as aggregation responses and a decrease in production of prostaglandins (Ajayi et al 1995). Moreover, a component of endothelial dysfunction has been proposed, which may contribute to abnormal vessel reactivity. However, testosterone in physiologic doses may even be beneficial in patients with angina (English et al 2000), have higher ischemic thresholds and improved quality of life (Malkin et al 2004). Short-term intracoronary administration of testosterone induces coronary artery dilation and increases coronary blood flow in men with established coronary artery disease (Webb et al 1999). Therefore, an interplay of endogenous factors of the patient’s risk profile as well as the testosterone dosing may be issues of whether adverse events occur."

You omitted these findings from the article:

Unfortunately, the data on the use of high dose anabolic steroids in humans are mainly offered as case reports or small studies that lack adequate control groups. In addition, the data available in the literature does not account for the steroid type(s) or dose, as neither may be known. Patients also may be taking concomitant stimulants, such as ephedra, which can confound data and the potential for adverse events.
 

Pissbrain259

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Yea, you could get a coronary angiogram, but maybe consider a non-invasive ct angiogram first, after an echocardiogram and lab work etc.

What you are describing sounds like early stage congestive heart failure, which could be reversed if you make some immediate lifestyle changes.

Fouad Abiad reported an incredible drop in blood pressure using the protocol found here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVYed2a5yk8&t=2s

Depending on ECG abnormalities, there are not many competent docs that would jump straight to a left heart cath (angiogram). It may help to actually see the ECG.
 

MethodAir

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Depending on ECG abnormalities, there are not many competent docs that would jump straight to a left heart cath (angiogram). It may help to actually see the ECG.

I was referring to a coronary angiogram (which examines the coronary arteries), not a left heart cath/LV angiogram, which examines the left ventricle via catheters pushed and pulled through the aortic valve.

As you mentioned, invasive cardiac tests should be preceded by an ECG, and non-invasive tests like ct-angiogram, echocardiogram etc.
 
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maldorf

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How are you doing?

Chris288. Havent heard from you in awhile. How are you doing now?
 

maldorf

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Hope he is ok.
 

OTD

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This is a reeal interesting thread for me because I have had multiple heart issues including bypass, heart attack, AFIB and A Flutter (in that order) . Just had an ablasion done 4 weeks ago. I am on zero test for 6 months because the AFIB and Flutter was so bad. I was suffering from the AFIB and Flutter for over 5 years because my 11 year old daughter got bone cancer and I had no time to take care of myself since I was a single dad.

Previosly I was on test 700wk/EQ 400 wk for about 13 years. I am 60 now. I went off that in 2012 and have only done 250test per week since. I stopped doing any test about 6 months ago and I look pretty darn good.
 

maldorf

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This is a reeal interesting thread for me because I have had multiple heart issues including bypass, heart attack, AFIB and A Flutter (in that order) . Just had an ablasion done 4 weeks ago. I am on zero test for 6 months because the AFIB and Flutter was so bad. I was suffering from the AFIB and Flutter for over 5 years because my 11 year old daughter got bone cancer and I had no time to take care of myself since I was a single dad.

Previosly I was on test 700wk/EQ 400 wk for about 13 years. I am 60 now. I went off that in 2012 and have only done 250test per week since. I stopped doing any test about 6 months ago and I look pretty darn good.

I had ablation of my ventricle, sounds like your's was in the atrium? The ablation I had seems to have made my problem worse. I hope your's helps you. I was told before the surgery that my chance of success was only about 30%. I suffer from VFIB, which is much more serious and I have a defibrillator. Read up on my thread if you want to know more.

https://www.professionalmuscle.com/...heart-attack-age-38-follow-up-phils-post.html

I just got my new defibrillator installed but went into V FIB and had to get cardioverted(defibrillated). Have you had that yet?
 

maldorf

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This is a reeal interesting thread for me because I have had multiple heart issues including bypass, heart attack, AFIB and A Flutter (in that order) . Just had an ablasion done 4 weeks ago. I am on zero test for 6 months because the AFIB and Flutter was so bad. I was suffering from the AFIB and Flutter for over 5 years because my 11 year old daughter got bone cancer and I had no time to take care of myself since I was a single dad.

Previosly I was on test 700wk/EQ 400 wk for about 13 years. I am 60 now. I went off that in 2012 and have only done 250test per week since. I stopped doing any test about 6 months ago and I look pretty darn good.

You were on that dose for 13 years straight, or did you cycle on and off!?
 

Ls61973

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Your Juice days are over. Either you stop taking them or you'll die. But either way they are over. Be smart and live long.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
 

Black Beard

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This is a reeal interesting thread for me because I have had multiple heart issues including bypass, heart attack, AFIB and A Flutter (in that order) . Just had an ablasion done 4 weeks ago. I am on zero test for 6 months because the AFIB and Flutter was so bad. I was suffering from the AFIB and Flutter for over 5 years because my 11 year old daughter got bone cancer and I had no time to take care of myself since I was a single dad.

Previosly I was on test 700wk/EQ 400 wk for about 13 years. I am 60 now. I went off that in 2012 and have only done 250test per week since. I stopped doing any test about 6 months ago and I look pretty darn good.

You should be on at least a low TRT dose, hypogonadism can lead to heart issues, it is a major risk factor.


Something like 500-700 ng/dL total testosterone. Testosterone and E2 at optimal levels have a strong protective effect from heart disease, stroke, etc.


1 gram of test and 0 milligrams of test are both extremely bad for you long-term (if hypogonadal) do your research and discuss with your physician/practitioner.
 
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maldorf

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You should be on at least a low TRT dose, hypogonadism can lead to heart issues, it is a major risk factor.


Something like 500-700 ng/dL total testosterone. Testosterone and E2 at optimal levels have a strong protective effect from heart disease, stroke, etc.


1 gram of test and 0 milligrams of test are both extremely bad for you long-term (if hypogonadal) do your research and discuss with your physician/practitioner.

So many of my doctors don't think low testosterone is bad for the heart. Ive read some studies that show otherwise, but maybe those are wrong? Even one of my cardiologist seems think exogenous test is dangerous. Ive not discussed it much with them because I can see the resistance. I think they worry because I had the clot that nearly killed me before and I was using steroids. They don't realize though that I was taking about 750 mg/wk test along with other steroids, the test alone is over 7x the HRT dose I am on now.

My hematologist is fine with my HRT, he has me on coumadin. My endo too is fine with it of course. Its my family doctor mainly that was really pushing me to get off it completely. Fool.
 

Black Beard

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So many of my doctors don't think low testosterone is bad for the heart. Ive read some studies that show otherwise, but maybe those are wrong? Even one of my cardiologist seems think exogenous test is dangerous. Ive not discussed it much with them because I can see the resistance. I think they worry because I had the clot that nearly killed me before and I was using steroids. They don't realize though that I was taking about 750 mg/wk test along with other steroids, the test alone is over 7x the HRT dose I am on now.

My hematologist is fine with my HRT, he has me on coumadin. My endo too is fine with it of course. Its my family doctor mainly that was really pushing me to get off it completely. Fool.

The healthiest age group being teenagers and young adult men have the highest testosterone levels, there is a strong protective effect.


You will find a ton of research supporting this, hypogonadism is a risk factor for heart disease and heart issues. Most doctors still have medical knowledge of the 50s-80s. Much of this research has been done in the 2000s and 2010s.


Testosterone actually has fibrinolytic properties (anti-clotting)


This is not to even mention the garbage quality of life of having very low testosterone levels. Testosterone in the optimal physiological range is heart protective, period.The studies showing otherwise were flawed. If you don't control HCT/BP, the risk goes up.
 
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emeric delczeg

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The healthiest age group being teenagers and young adult men have the highest testosterone levels, there is a strong protective effect.


You will find a ton of research supporting this, hypogonadism is a risk factor for heart disease and heart issues. Most doctors still have medical knowledge of the 50s-80s. Much of this research has been done in the 2000s and 2010s.


Testosterone actually has fibrinolytic properties (anti-clotting)


This is not to even mention the garbage quality of life of having very low testosterone levels. Testosterone in the optimal physiological range is heart protective, period.The studies showing otherwise were flawed. If you don't control HCT/BP, the risk goes up.

Optimal-range yes.

http://www.hormonebalance.org/images/documents/Winkler 96 Effects androgens hemostasis Mat.pdf
 

maldorf

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"The absence of classical risk factors, the youth of the patients and the lack of atherosclerotic lesions suggested a atherthrom- botic rather than atherogenic pathomechanism raising questions on the prothrombotic effects of high dose androgens [32]. It has recently been suggested that an increased platelet aggregability in vivo might mediate this prothrombotic effect of high dose androgens: platelet aggregability with adenosin diphosphate and collagen was significantly increased in abusers of anabolic steroids when compared to their fel- low male weight-lifters who did not use androgens [33]. Platelet aggregability is largely dependent on the arachnidonic acid metabolism and an effect of high dose androgens on both platelet [5], as well as vascular cyclooxygenase activity [34] has been demonstrated. Thus, high dose anabolic steroids are capable of increasing vascular tone and reac- tivity, i.e. blood pressure, and platelet aggregabil- ity (i.e. blood coagulability). Obviously, these effects are clearly prothrombotic and in opposi- tion to the antithrombotic effects via improved fibrinolytic action. "

Some good info in that paper, thanks. Certainly what happened with me, and having the clotting trait I have was a double whammy.
 
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gungalunga

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Reading this thread definitely got my lazy ass motivated to go do cardio today.
 

2elbows

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Well all finally went to the Dr because of some chest pains and my fear confirmed.. looks like there are some heart abnormalities from the EKG.

So this is a long story, but having some symptoms and after lethargy n shortness of breath so need to know what are next steps from others who have had this issue.

Dr says I have left ventricle issues this far. They are going to do a chemical stress test and another test that I am waiting for. They pulled labs which I do every 6months anyway. Dont have them back yet. Here is some info below....

42 years old 5ft 10 244pounds 18%BF.
Always had high BP ,but lately its averaged 160-180 over 100/130. Very very high stress job. Also family history.
Cholesterol is total 205, but HDL n LDL always been bad.
Just started high BP meds n a statin.

Gear- 600mg test cyp/500mg Primo/ 50mg proviron daily.
Been cutting past 8weeks.

This year have run test up to 900mg and 8 weeks tren at 150mg per week.

I used to cycle 20 years ago, only started back when I started TRT at 40. Only ran test at high doses up to 900mg nothing else except arimidex 3times a week Nolva 3 times a week.

I dont know if gear has caused any of this. I am worried about blockage in the arteries. BP has been a concern.

So is there any tests I should ask for? Can i check for Heart health? Can they run dye in the arteries to check for plaque buildup?

Just not sure what to ask for or what to do next. I am droppin test to my TRT dose of 300mg. Primo i stopped not sure if it affects heart at all. Proviron same dont know whether to start back.

Any help would be appreciated. Will report labs when I get them.

Thanks

Trust your docs they will tell you. I am 51 and had a Mitral Valve repair in 2016. Open heart surgery! Gear had nothing to do with mine just a bad valve it happens . You will learn more abut the heart than you ever though you would.
They will put you through all the right tests. I suspect like a lot of us you have a leaky valve of some type which is cause the left ventricle issues. BUT I am not a doctor.
 

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