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Wellness judging criteria_ Advice, Input

Designbuilt

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I'm attaching an image of a client/teammate. She's done 1 year in wellness, has done 2yrs in bikini previously. She's been placing 1st and overall, and competing at a pro qualifier in 4wks. This is what her 4wks out looks like!! Taken a few days ago. She's about 5'5", around 137, 138#
She looks fantastic! and I hope she wins... But again back to my original posts and this...



Here are the criteria directly from the NPC website:

-Level of conditioning?
We are looking for conditioning almost on par with Bikini athletes, but the athletes will have slightly more muscle. We want to see a little body fat with slight separation but no striations.
-Abs defined like Figure or less defined like Bikini?
As it currently is in Bikini.

-Shoulders? Rounded & Capped like Figure and Women’s Physique or less pronounced like Bikini?
Slightly more developed than Bikini and a little less than Figure, but not as lean and with no striations. Not like Women’s Physique.

-How much definition for quads?
The quads should display an athletic appearance with slight separation but no striations. Not as lean and defined as Figure and Women’s Physique.

-Glute Development?
Full round glutes with a slight separation between the hamstring and glute area but no striations, as is in place for the Bikini Division. Glutes will be bigger than current Bikini competitors. They will not be as lean and defined as Figure and Women’s Physique.


I like your friend's physique, but she seems harder than what's listed above. Just in my opinion and that's what makes these categories so tough to judge.


This is a girl Nikki follows on instagram and tiktok. She's a Wellness IFBB Pro. (Nikki's uncle is an IFBB men's open Pro btw)




 

11sh11

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She looks fantastic! and I hope she wins... But again back to my original posts and this...



Here are the criteria directly from the NPC website:

-Level of conditioning?
We are looking for conditioning almost on par with Bikini athletes, but the athletes will have slightly more muscle. We want to see a little body fat with slight separation but no striations.
-Abs defined like Figure or less defined like Bikini?
As it currently is in Bikini.

-Shoulders? Rounded & Capped like Figure and Women’s Physique or less pronounced like Bikini?
Slightly more developed than Bikini and a little less than Figure, but not as lean and with no striations. Not like Women’s Physique.

-How much definition for quads?
The quads should display an athletic appearance with slight separation but no striations. Not as lean and defined as Figure and Women’s Physique.

-Glute Development?
Full round glutes with a slight separation between the hamstring and glute area but no striations, as is in place for the Bikini Division. Glutes will be bigger than current Bikini competitors. They will not be as lean and defined as Figure and Women’s Physique.


I like your friend's physique, but she seems harder than what's listed above. Just in my opinion and that's what makes these categories so tough to judge.


This is a girl Nikki follows on instagram and tiktok. She's a Wellness IFBB Pro. (Nikki's uncle is an IFBB men's open Pro btw)




Those guidelines are seldom followed. Like I said previously. They're a catchall requirement to present structure.

Conditioning is always expected
 

11sh11

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I checked out the IG link, that girl isn't stage ready. She has a great, off season look, not stage ready.

Seriously though, those guidelines are a formality. Going pro can depend on how many followers on social media, who's friends with the judge, how much money has been invested into multiple shows, who's your sponsor, who's your coach, who's your posing coach... its also more of what's considered a model division. The right jewelry, right color and cut of suit. How well you pose is essential.
Many of the top pros are injecting hyaluronic acid into the quads and glutes, glute implants, etc. (Dr Sunni Andrews, eg.)
Very few are genetic freaks, and it's seldom "fair".

So, don't forget to just enjoy the process. The training, the transformation, and those supporting you every day. A show is just one day. As many have said, 'there's no crying in bodybuilding'. Have to have thick skin. And for women especially, if you don't love the day to day, it can break a woman. Eating disorders, body dysmorphia, depression, and metabolic damage.
Facts
 

11sh11

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I like your friend's physique, but she seems harder than what's listed above. Just in my opinion and that's what makes these categories so tough to judge.
Just a followup... my client took 3rd at Jr Nats this weekend, out of 14 in her height class. Her judges feedback was she needed to add just a bit more size still, a little more glute fullness. Conditioning was on point, and she needed to make a slight posing adjustment. So, this is coming from bikini division last year, and placing 13th at a national show.
Hope you guys are doing great in Nikki's training and goals!
 

Designbuilt

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Just a followup... my client took 3rd at Jr Nats this weekend, out of 14 in her height class. Her judges feedback was she needed to add just a bit more size still, a little more glute fullness. Conditioning was on point, and she needed to make a slight posing adjustment. So, this is coming from bikini division last year, and placing 13th at a national show.
Hope you guys are doing great in Nikki's training and goals!
Thank you and congrats to both of you! I'm having Nikki maintain and a few ideas/tricks and theories I have for her... but now I see that she'll have to add more size and definitely come in harder.

The girl who I showed in a previous post above didn't place top 5 at the pro show in Puerto Rico...
 

cm

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I've found that some women will have bigger boobs and less on the hips/butt area.
Where as others are opposite, some have both, but it's rare and... Those who have more on top, rarely build the glutes to match and if and when they do, they'll lose a lot when they diet down. Similar to men, I'm the opposite, I can get my lower body to grow in the offseason and they'll still have striations even when my upper body gets fat, but I'll lose a lot of the gains when I diet down...



-Level of conditioning?
We are looking for conditioning almost on par with Bikini athletes, but the athletes will have slightly more muscle. We want to see a little body fat with slight separation but no striations.
-Abs defined like Figure or less defined like Bikini?
As it currently is in Bikini.

-Shoulders? Rounded & Capped like Figure and Women’s Physique or less pronounced like Bikini?
Slightly more developed than Bikini and a little less than Figure, but not as lean and with no striations. Not like Women’s Physique.

-How much definition for quads?
The quads should display an athletic appearance with slight separation but no striations. Not as lean and defined as Figure and Women’s Physique.

-Glute Development?
Full round glutes with a slight separation between the hamstring and glute area but no striations, as is in place for the Bikini Division. Glutes will be bigger than current Bikini competitors. They will not be as lean and defined as Figure and Women’s Physique.


My goals for her are to lean out a little bit more, especially bring in her abs more and make her waist a little smaller and tighten the glutes and hams slightly. But the thing is that I've looked at the advanced Wellness competitors and they've deviated from what the criteria as listed on their site. I see girls who are very lean and have striations and very little fat. It's frustrating, because when the judging isn't consistent, almost any decision can be justified... But if the criteria states that they want to see some fat and some softness, then why are they awarding the titles to very lean girls with no fat?


Regardless, she's 5 weeks out and this is where she is now as of today: (the last pic with the hooters outfit was last week)

Any input would be appreciated.
I'm sticking to my plan with her, I'm confident in my methods and that I'll have her ready in less than a month.
just reading this. why ask for help and then tell people your good without their advice, esp when its spot on becasue she was out of shape in the previous photos and needed to be way harder?
what is going on around here, or is it all the time and I m just late
 

cm

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This is exactly why I made the opening posts to begin with.

The criteria listed seen to describe Nikki to a T. What I'm going to do, is just have her look as good as possible.

Tighten everything up more. But not to the point of striations.
nikki - i assume who was posted is not in stage shape to be at a national show. posters here are correct. she is not in condition. it is not to a T. needs to be way harder, way tighter. abs are not visible. and she has too much lower body fat %. the glutes may be "big enough" if they were leaner and if they can be seen. tighten up to the point of striations.-absolutely- girls dont have to flex on stage to show them.
 

cm

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I'm attaching an image of a client/teammate. She's done 1 year in wellness, has done 2yrs in bikini previously. She's been placing 1st and overall, and competing at a pro qualifier in 4wks. This is what her 4wks out looks like!! Taken a few days ago. She's about 5'5", around 137, 138#
this what a conditioned athlete looks like at a national level, and should be sought after at a local level as well. its not 2 different sports because its on a different stage
 

BLang

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IMO Wellness became a very broken category very quickly the same way Men's Physique has.

Because women tend to lose BF last in the hips/thighs/glutes, when they get extremely skinny (Bikini) they end up with very small lower bodies. If you bring most of them up to a healthy (but still very lean) body weight, most of them will see that added size show up in the lower body.

Wellness was designed to be "Bikini with women at a healthy body fat" which would see women carrying a little more fat in the lower body but still generally be very lean up top. Almost immediately that got conflated with "women who have bigger glutes either naturally or because of training".

At the same time, the judges immediately started rewarding conditioning, and very quickly, instead of Wellness being women at a healthy body fat, it turned into Bikini for women who have naturally wide hips/large glute muscles.

It's pretty ridiculous. So instead of "if you want to get super skinny to Bikini (and even then, Bikini was never originally meant to put people at an unhealthy BF), if you want to have a healthy BF with a little muscle to balance do Wellness, regardless of natural proportions", it's "if you have naturally narrow hips get shredded and do bikini, if you have naturally wide hips get shredded and do wellness".

I agree that your wife has nearly the exact body that "Wellness" was designed for and she's fucking stunning IDGAF what the judges say, but my fear is that your wife will get docked for her conditioning and be told to get leaner and do bikini.
 
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11sh11

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they end up with very small lower bodies
True, for those who don't train hard. I had a teammate go pro at the same show, in bikini. She's definitely an athlete, and trains hard.
If someone wants to just diet a little, and 'do a show', maybe consider a natural league. The bodies are more typical of what's attainable with some diet and exercise.
Looking good to someone is a very different definition than looking good to a judge.
 

OuchThatHurts

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Looking good to someone is a very different definition than looking good to a judge.
This right here. How many times has it been said that in the end, the competitor in any class with the best conditioning will always win. The bikini, wellness, figure, and physique categories, in almost every one, you're asking the judges to disregard fat (even if just in certain areas)? I don't see that happening.

Conditioning wins the race. Always has. Occasionally in heavier bbing weight classes the "size wins all" philosophy wins out but even then not always.
 

cm

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IMO Wellness became a very broken category very quickly the same way Men's Physique has.

Because women tend to lose BF last in the hips/thighs/glutes, when they get extremely skinny (Bikini) they end up with very small lower bodies. If you bring most of them up to a healthy (but still very lean) body weight, most of them will see that added size show up in the lower body.

Wellness was designed to be "Bikini with women at a healthy body fat" which would see women carrying a little more fat in the lower body but still generally be very lean up top. Almost immediately that got conflated with "women who have bigger glutes either naturally or because of training".

At the same time, the judges immediately started rewarding conditioning, and very quickly, instead of Wellness being women at a healthy body fat, it turned into Bikini for women who have naturally wide hips/large glute muscles.

It's pretty ridiculous. So instead of "if you want to get super skinny to Bikini (and even then, Bikini was never originally meant to put people at an unhealthy BF), if you want to have a healthy BF with a little muscle to balance do Wellness, regardless of natural proportions", it's "if you have naturally narrow hips get shredded and do bikini, if you have naturally wide hips get shredded and do wellness".

I agree that your wife has nearly the exact body that "Wellness" was designed for and she's fucking stunning IDGAF what the judges say, but my fear is that your wife will get docked for her conditioning and be told to get leaner and do bikini.
unfortunately every line here is your opinion, and its all wrong, all false, not because anyone including myself, will agree or disagree with your statements, they are just not factual

not broken- extremely popular, boundary crossing & rewarding for woman, not girls- esp girls who are beginners in the gym

never designed to be fat bikini- never

judges always award conditioning-every category, every division, every show= its bodybuilding, leaner bodies win

hips might dictate the initial choice, but the work you put in will determine where you end up or where you want to be- imagine saying this to a guy that wants to gain muscle- you put him in a box and tell him you got no chance top do what you want-your structure says this- just do something else instead........no

off season body- starting point for a diet for a show- yes- what wellness was designed for - not even close. you realize wellness was happening in other countries and the champions were already determining what the category was to be. it was years in the making, having nothing to do with what you are saying

oh exception-YES- she will get docked for conditioning-told to get leaner everytime, and also told by everyone who is a coach who gets people ready for shows. I also agree IDGAF about what the judges say either, except when onstsage, and they are judging me or my clients, and that judgement determines show outcomes
 

BLang

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unfortunately every line here is your opinion, and its all wrong, all false, not because anyone including myself, will agree or disagree with your statements, they are just not factual

not broken- extremely popular, boundary crossing & rewarding for woman, not girls- esp girls who are beginners in the gym

never designed to be fat bikini- never

judges always award conditioning-every category, every division, every show= its bodybuilding, leaner bodies win

hips might dictate the initial choice, but the work you put in will determine where you end up or where you want to be- imagine saying this to a guy that wants to gain muscle- you put him in a box and tell him you got no chance top do what you want-your structure says this- just do something else instead........no

off season body- starting point for a diet for a show- yes- what wellness was designed for - not even close. you realize wellness was happening in other countries and the champions were already determining what the category was to be. it was years in the making, having nothing to do with what you are saying

oh exception-YES- she will get docked for conditioning-told to get leaner everytime, and also told by everyone who is a coach who gets people ready for shows. I also agree IDGAF about what the judges say either, except when onstsage, and they are judging me or my clients, and that judgement determines show outcomes
Well, you start off by saying that every line is wrong and "all false" and then proceed to agree with about half of what I said. But you make good points for sure.

As far as the points you actually disagreed with:

Re: Broken category.

You're absolutely right that it isn't a functionally "broken" category in that its very popular and doing very well, and that's great. But Men's Physique is very popular as well, and its very much "broken" compared to its original intent. That was what I was getting it.

"never designed to be fat bikini- never"

I agree with that on the surface, however the specifications literally say that their conditioning isn't meant to be on par with Bikini. There's intended to be a built-in allowance for storage of fat, and much like in Men's Physique, judges have quickly forgotten about that and just defaulted to rewarding conditioning.

Functionally, it's very difficult to differentiate between the two categories, except that it was a way to cater to the "wider lower bodies" in other countries like you said. But then there was push to make it "healthier" than bikini. If it was just about having "more glute muscle", why would it be called "wellness"?

That initial intent was forgotten very quickly even by the time the first rules were put in place.

It's a very strange paradigm to try and define or crack, honestly.
 

cm

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Well, you start off by saying that every line is wrong and "all false" and then proceed to agree with about half of what I said. But you make good points for sure.

As far as the points you actually disagreed with:

Re: Broken category.

You're absolutely right that it isn't a functionally "broken" category in that its very popular and doing very well, and that's great. But Men's Physique is very popular as well, and its very much "broken" compared to its original intent. That was what I was getting it.

"never designed to be fat bikini- never"

I agree with that on the surface, however the specifications literally say that their conditioning isn't meant to be on par with Bikini. There's intended to be a built-in allowance for storage of fat, and much like in Men's Physique, judges have quickly forgotten about that and just defaulted to rewarding conditioning.

Functionally, it's very difficult to differentiate between the two categories, except that it was a way to cater to the "wider lower bodies" in other countries like you said. But then there was push to make it "healthier" than bikini. If it was just about having "more glute muscle", why would it be called "wellness"?

That initial intent was forgotten very quickly even by the time the first rules were put in place.

It's a very strange paradigm to try and define or crack, honestly.
re read
I disagree with all but one statement you made.
Youre reading into things that are on a website- not actually attending and competing in shows/ nothing was forgotten.
its going-(including mens physique) exactly as planned minus some of the implants and injections the girls are doing, but again, that was expected to some point as well. I am not sure why you are arguing with facts, and with people like 11 and myself on here, who are in the arena and onstage themselves?
coaches and competitors have had no problems cracking the paradigm, unless they arent really either
 

Designbuilt

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nikki - i assume who was posted is not in stage shape to be at a national show. posters here are correct. she is not in condition. it is not to a T. needs to be way harder, way tighter. abs are not visible. and she has too much lower body fat %. the glutes may be "big enough" if they were leaner and if they can be seen. tighten up to the point of striations.-absolutely- girls dont have to flex on stage to show them.
Thanks for your replies, I agree, she's not even CLOSE to being ready for nationals. She was competing at a State level, national qualifier. Which she did, she took 2nd and the posing could've possibly gotten her a win. Understand that I threw her in pretty quickly... I'm not a personal trainer, I don't have a personal trainers certification, or whatever is needed... I am an architect, and building code consultant. (I have a degree in that area) So although I may not have the credentials most of you have in the fitness industry... I am a pretty smart guy who figures things out and can spot patterns and I've come up with my own revolutionary ideas... I can talk Until I'm blue in the face... I disagreed with someone who said that she looked 12 weeks out and wouldn't be ready. I'm confident in my ability in getting her as lean as needed... and I was right, she looked pretty good on show day...

However, now it's a matter of her pursuing this further... I currently have offers from an agent who says he can promote her to making 6 figures a month on onlyfans... He wants no money upfront and is going to work on percentage... That to me is worth pursuing more than an IFBB pro card; because I know for a fact that most IFBB Pros don't even make close to that much...

She's currently making a great living camming, and she's getting very popular on Tiktok, one of her videos has about 11 million views after a couple of weeks, with no promotion whatsoever. But even there, a lot of angry five inchers say that she looks too manly (which is idiotic, there's no way in hell a man can look like this) but my point is that she did want to compete, it's in her genes. Her Uncle is an IFBB pro, (won his class at nationals in 2004)

And I know that I can get her ready to do damage at a national level show; the question is if it's smart. An agent who's working with me, said it would be a terrible idea if she continued to compete and her winning a major title would be the "biggest tragedy possible" Me and Nikki have a meeting with him Tuesday morning and we're going to decide how to pursue this...

She's motivated to compete and it's a fun hobby... When we're talking that much money and being overall more marketable... Plus what I personally find more appealing; I like this... As do more people...
She also competed at Ms. Exxxotica and an IFBB figure pro who does pole dancing also entered the show, the Pro, had a lot of publicity leading up to the show, but NOBODY seemed to like her or clap to her... She looked way too hard and the appeal for that is very limited...

These are all things to consider... thanks for your input and I appreciate it very much... If and when she decides to continue pursing competition; I'll keep everyone posted...
 

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Designbuilt

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I made a lot of typos above and grammatical errors; this one reads slightly better... Not perfect, but better: Also that last picture is her current condition, take a few days ago...


Thanks for your replies, I agree, she's not even CLOSE to being ready for nationals. She was competing at a State level, national qualifier. Which she did, she took 2nd and the posing could've possibly gotten her a win. Understand that I threw her in pretty quickly... I'm not a personal trainer, I don't have a personal trainers certification, or whatever is needed... I am an architect, and building code consultant. (I have a degree in that area) So although I may not have the credentials most of you have in the fitness industry... I am a pretty smart guy who figures things out and can spot patterns and I've come up with my own revolutionary ideas... I can talk Until I'm blue in the face... I disagreed with someone who said that she looked 12 weeks out and wouldn't be ready. I'm confident in my ability in getting her as lean as needed... and I was right, she looked pretty good on show day...

However, now it's a matter of her pursuing this further... I currently have offers from an agent who says he can promote her to making 6 figures a month on onlyfans... He wants no money upfront and is going to work on percentage... That to me is worth pursuing more than an IFBB pro card; because I know for a fact that most IFBB Pros don't even make close to that much...

She's currently making a great living camming, and she's getting very popular on Tiktok, one of her videos has about 11 million views after a couple of weeks, with no promotion whatsoever. But even there, a lot of angry five inchers say that she looks too manly (which is idiotic, there's no way in hell a man can look like this) but my point is that she did want to compete, it's in her genes. Her Uncle is an IFBB pro, (won his class at nationals in 2004)

And I know that I can get her ready to do damage at a national level show; the question is if it's smart. An agent who's working with me, said it would be a terrible idea if she continued to compete and her winning a major title would be the "biggest tragedy possible" Me and Nikki have a meeting with him Tuesday morning and we're going to decide how to proceed with this...

She's motivated to compete and it's a fun hobby... But when we're talking that much money, it's about being more marketable and being liked by more people in general, more of the mainstream audience... Plus this is what I personally find more appealing; I like this look... A lot...

She also competed at Ms. Exxxotica and an IFBB figure pro who does pole dancing also entered the show, the Pro, had a lot of publicity leading up to the show, but NOBODY seemed to like her or clap to her... She looked way too hard and the appeal for that is very limited... her hips were too narrow, she just looked hard overall, perhaps it was the hormones and I don't want to talk negatively about her, so I won't go into details...

These are all things to consider... thanks for your input and I appreciate it very much... If and when she decides to continue pursing competition; I'll keep everyone posted...
 

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Go for the money and leave the bodybuilding in the rear view. Life’s short so take advantage of the good opportunities when they present themselves.

Cage
Absolutely , use the opportunity to bank roll a savings and later on if she's still passionate about it she can still compete.
I know a hand full of IFBB pros and none of them make any money because they are a pro. The few that are trainers simply use the pro card as an advertisement. I think there are so many pros now that there isn't enough sponsors to go around. I guess if you are winning pro shows it can be lucrative but many get a pro card and don't continue to compete.
 

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