What’s Your Go To Bulking Cycle?

[Flocci]

Speaking of bulking, what in your opinion is the best protocol just for gaining the most muscle mass as possible across a blast? Im hearing a lot of coaches and educators in the space advocating pre-bed bolus dose before bed to maximize IGF1 output but im also hearing people like stefan kienzl being a fan of postworkout hgh use coupled with insulin. Leveraging insulin to supress igfbp1 and thus having a higher free pool of igf1 makes sense and you wouldnt get that if you dose it before bed(?) and thus you'd actually be getting less igf1 output with the pre-bed vs periworkout if you think about it that way, or am i wrong?

You also have the discussion about IM vs subQ and certain people like kurt havens claiming that IM degrades or decreases the bioavailability by 20% or so, which seems like a claim without anything to back it up. If the peak of HGH is the most important for the igf1 output it would make sense to pin IM, but if you care more about the area under the curve, it would make sense to pin subQ. I go back and forth and then think about what most pros say "just get the fucking GH in you and stop overcomplicating it".


In terms of side effects, ive heard and seen best results pinning it pre-bed subQ personally, what do you guys think and what is your experience with different protocols?

lets assume we are using 6-12iu pr day for example.

There probably is an upper limit to how much the body can effectively use in a single bolus, but in my opinion it’s closer to 20 IU than the 12 IU I typically run. Beyond that, the liver likely can’t keep up with IGF-1 production—especially without complementary insulin use.

is that by decreasing igf1bp1?

 

[juiceddunk_backup]

I recently split my dose and noticed an increase in side effects too. The question I have now is whether that means that it is also more effective in a split dose ... what is your experience? Maybe everything above a certain bolus amount is pretty much wasted? Interested to hear you thoughts

offseason, 1 large bolus dose 10-20iu.
precontest, if i was doing 10iu, id do 5/5, or 20iu id do 5/5/5/5.

 

[massephase]

offseason, 1 large bolus dose 10-20iu.
precontest, if i was doing 10iu, id do 5/5, or 20iu id do 5/5/5/5.

Thanks. I think I'll go back to the bolus dose too

When would you time the bolus? Pre workout? AM, PM? And what was your experience with different timings?

 

[juiceddunk_backup]

Thanks. I think I'll go back to the bolus dose too

When would you time the bolus? Pre workout? AM, PM? And what was your experience with different timings?

man you hear everyone say it doesnt matter when you take your gh...idk i think every little thing matters but I wouldnt MAJOR in the MINORS...meaning its not a huge deal so dont worry about it.

Having said that, for me, I've always done the bolus dose POST WORKOUT. Idk, it just feels right to me..you crush your workout then shoot gh, then slin then eat and recover. Before bed also makes sense to me. Pick one.

I will say that I wouldn't do more than 10iu at once...mainly because it's gonna shoot up your BP and just make you feel off.. it does for me anyways. example, I'm doing 20iu/day rn and I do split it up cuz the amount is so high...10iu postworkout / 10iu before bed. So take that for what you will.

 

[hawkmoon]

Speaking of bulking, what in your opinion is the best protocol just for gaining the most muscle mass as possible across a blast? Im hearing a lot of coaches and educators in the space advocating pre-bed bolus dose before bed to maximize IGF1 output but im also hearing people like stefan kienzl being a fan of postworkout hgh use coupled with insulin. Leveraging insulin to supress igfbp1 and thus having a higher free pool of igf1 makes sense and you wouldnt get that if you dose it before bed(?) and thus you'd actually be getting less igf1 output with the pre-bed vs periworkout if you think about it that way, or am i wrong?

You also have the discussion about IM vs subQ and certain people like kurt havens claiming that IM degrades or decreases the bioavailability by 20% or so, which seems like a claim without anything to back it up. If the peak of HGH is the most important for the igf1 output it would make sense to pin IM, but if you care more about the area under the curve, it would make sense to pin subQ. I go back and forth and then think about what most pros say "just get the fucking GH in you and stop overcomplicating it".


In terms of side effects, ive heard and seen best results pinning it pre-bed subQ personally, what do you guys think and what is your experience with different protocols?

lets assume we are using 6-12iu pr day for example.




is that by decreasing igf1bp1?

In short I agree with Stefan and disagree strongly with Kurt.

Post-workout IM especially combined with humalog insulin, gives me the best results. I’ve tried the more “common” methods—subcutaneous injections or pre-bed dosing—but for me those are less effective, except perhaps for fat loss. I already get plenty of fat-burning benefits with my approach.

In my opinion, taking GH before bed mainly works by liberating fatty acids during sleep. You’re also suppressing your natural GH pulse at night (small as it may be, why not take advantage of it?). I also think people mistakenly associate GH administration with better sleep quality. There’s no evidence for that in the literature, and I believe it’s mostly placebo. GH is produced naturally during sleep, but there’s no data showing exogenous GH improves sleep. Anecdotally, I notice no benefit.

I’ve experimented with different protocols, and post-workout with insulin remains the most effective for
me.

 

[pezevenk19]

1gr test
500 mast
500 npp
500 bold
600 tren
75mg anadrol
30iu rapid
6iu turkish pharmacy genotropin

 

[Brock456]

1gr test
500 mast
500 npp
500 bold
600 tren
75mg anadrol
30iu rapid
6iu turkish pharmacy genotropin

I hope you’re 300lb or close if you’re using that much gear

 

[pezevenk19]

I hope you’re 300lb or close if you’re using that much gear

I will share my body information soon.

 

[Moberg14]

1-1,2g test
800 eq
500 mast
300 Dhb
4-6iu hgh
50-100 Anadrol here and there for a couple of weeks and some insulin pre and post wo.

Will be doing something similar this offseason but no mast and more hgh. Might try to push the test up as well

 

[luki7788]

Fuck I think I've become a pussy because your cycles seem really big to me lol

 

[d4ve]

Fuck I think I've become a pussy because your cycles seem really big to me lol

I think you've said plenty of times that even your SHW clients grow extremely well on ~2g injectables and 8-10iu GH. Little to no orals or tren while growing. It's been the same for me, and I'm no genetic marvel.

I really wonder what diet, training, and sleep are like for all these people running 3-4+ grams.

 

[Duke309]

I think you've said plenty of times that even your SHW clients grow extremely well on ~2g injectables and 8-10iu GH. Little to no orals or tren while growing. It's been the same for me, and I'm no genetic marvel.

I really wonder what diet, training, and sleep are like for all these people running 3-4+ grams.

I wonder if it is more of a case of diminishing returns once you get to a certain dosage and it doesn't really noticeably increase the muscle protein synthesis rate. If assume just 10 grams of muscle could be built, per day, so 70 grams per week, roughly 6.5 weeks for a pound. Increase that number by 20% (which may be very generous for going from 2grams to 3-4 grams), 12 grams of muscle per day, 84 grams per week, 5.4 weeks per pound. Assuming perfect training and diet to get these numbers, you have only decreased the time taken to build a pound of muscle by 1 week. The time scale of this is so long it may not even be that obvious anything has changed other than the additional side effects from basically doubling the dose. All the additional water weight is going to blur all the muscle acquisition anyway.

 

[Flocci]

I wonder if it is more of a case of diminishing returns once you get to a certain dosage and it doesn't really noticeably increase the muscle protein synthesis rate. If assume just 10 grams of muscle could be built, per day, so 70 grams per week, roughly 6.5 weeks for a pound. Increase that number by 20% (which may be very generous for going from 2grams to 3-4 grams), 12 grams of muscle per day, 84 grams per week, 5.4 weeks per pound. Assuming perfect training and diet to get these numbers, you have only decreased the time taken to build a pound of muscle by 1 week. The time scale of this is so long it may not even be that obvious anything has changed other than the additional side effects from basically doubling the dose. All the additional water weight is going to blur all the muscle acquisition anyway.

in my experience, i dont see more from 3-3.5g than i see from 2-3g. Thats just me anecdotal experience though.

 

[massephase]

I hope you’re 300lb or close if you’re using that much gear

You got it backwards. He is taking 3g to get to the size of someone taking 3g. He is growing into the dose