What are the Pro's/Con's of Anti-E to raise natural test?

[TheRogueOne]

Could you raise your natural test levels by only cycling anti-e's (SERM) like Nolvadex, Clomid or Arimidex? My thought would be to use it in a short burst(1-2 weeks) to jump start the body's production of free T. I have read it can increase you LH and T up to 150%. I would think that long term use would force your body to produce SHBG to regulate the over-balanced T/E ratio but if done for a short enough time the body would never move to that stage...thoughts, experiences?

 

[Dnpcuriousguy]

good question i was also thinking about this before too! excited for the answers

 

[Vicious]

Lipids could suffer. Dont see you getting anything out of it remotely worth cost.

 

[TheRogueOne]

Nolvadex has been shown to improve LDL and HDL profile.

 

[Voxide]

This is a horrible idea. Estrogen is needed in everyone. Your sex drive will suffer and long term estrogen deficiency will lead to more serious health problems down the road. Run Test and do it right or don't do it at all.

 

[woodswise]

This is a horrible idea. Estrogen is needed in everyone. Your sex drive will suffer and long term estrogen deficiency will lead to more serious health problems down the road. Run Test and do it right or don't do it at all.

^^^^ This.

I thought about doing exactly what you propose, then I did a lot of reading. It is clear to me that using an AI without taking test, will lower your natural estrogen, leading to side effects like dry and sore joints, and other problems.

If you're going to mess with AI's why not just take the plunge and use AAS?

 

[steelrain]

I have found that i need only 20mgs of nolvadex to maintain my hormones after a long cycle of aas, I've used it for months at a time with no adverse effect, but many consider arimidex a better alternative as it will not cut all estrogen at .5mgs per day, cost is usually the issue.

 

[flexdurden]

using an AI without taking test, will lower your natural estrogen, leading to side effects like dry and sore joints, and other problems.

This is my impression as well. As already stated in this thread you need a certain level of estrogen to be healthy (and even for erections) and if you are not using anything that would cause your body to produce more estrogen that normal (like test) then using an AI may cause you more harm than good. However, if you natually have a very high level of estrogen then there may be some merit to it, but without the bloodwork you are really taking a shot in the dark.

I have found that i need only 20mgs of nolvadex to maintain my hormones after a long cycle of aas, I've used it for months at a time with no adverse effect, but many consider arimidex a better alternative as it will not cut all estrogen at .5mgs per day, cost is usually the issue.

Although arimidex is a better option than nolvadex (AIs kill the aromatase enzyme but SERMs do not, and the estrogen leftover can potentially cause a rebound effect), it is harder on your lipid profile than exemestane, and in some people can work TOO good and make estrogen too low. Exemestane at 12.5mg/day is a safe bet to go with.

 

[Hmmm]

this is taken off of another forum, I copied and emailed to a friend without siting it so I no longer know where it is from. Sorry for the way it formatted.



"First you need to understand what tells your body to make test. It's estrogen.

It gets a little confusing if you're not familiar with the way Aromatese Inhibitors work.
There is only one estrogen receptor so they all want to do the same thing. Limit the estrogen that binds to that receptor. Nolvadex, not an AI, does it by binding to it itself and blocking off the estrogen from being able to affect you.
Then comes the AI's which work one of two ways. They either inhibit the aromatese enzymes from converting the test in your blood to estrogen OR they kill the aromatese off (called suicidal) so that they aren't there to convert the test to estrogen.
So your reference to irreversible pertains to the later, a suicidal aromatese inhibitor.
Arimidex is one that only inhibits the aromatese from converting test to estrogen. It was one of the first introduced. It works much better in women than in men. In men it's only preventing a little over half of the conversion. And that’s at 1mg/day.
Aromasin is suicidal and kills off the aromatese enzyme so it's much more powerful and does a better job in men and women.

The AIFM from the AF Store is suicidal and is much stronger than Arimidex for that reason. If you have REAL aromasin pills then you are taking the best AI there is. And with proviron you should do very well.
AI's are used to increase natural test levels. They do this by lowering estrogen. HUH? Yes by lowering estrogen you raise test in your body. That's because your body doesn't measure the amount of test you have to determine if it should make more. The HPTA (system controlling your test) "knows" that test is converted to estrogen by the aromatese. So when the HPTA reads low estrogen it signals the testes to start producing more test. So when you use AIFM or similar AI you lower your estrogen levels, this triggers the HPTA to read "we need more test down there" and your test levels then go up as the testes start pumping it out. The AI will continue to limit the conversion and the HPTA will continue to read low estrogen and keep your natural test levels at the high side or normal."
__________________

 

[TheRogueOne]

that was my logic behind this idea

 

[LiftAmongstGiants]

this is taken off of another forum, I copied and emailed to a friend without siting it so I no longer know where it is from. Sorry for the way it formatted.



"First you need to understand what tells your body to make test. It's estrogen.

It gets a little confusing if you're not familiar with the way Aromatese Inhibitors work.
There is only one estrogen receptor so they all want to do the same thing. Limit the estrogen that binds to that receptor. Nolvadex, not an AI, does it by binding to it itself and blocking off the estrogen from being able to affect you.
Then comes the AI's which work one of two ways. They either inhibit the aromatese enzymes from converting the test in your blood to estrogen OR they kill the aromatese off (called suicidal) so that they aren't there to convert the test to estrogen.
So your reference to irreversible pertains to the later, a suicidal aromatese inhibitor.
Arimidex is one that only inhibits the aromatese from converting test to estrogen. It was one of the first introduced. It works much better in women than in men. In men it's only preventing a little over half of the conversion. And that’s at 1mg/day.
Aromasin is suicidal and kills off the aromatese enzyme so it's much more powerful and does a better job in men and women.

The AIFM from the AF Store is suicidal and is much stronger than Arimidex for that reason. If you have REAL aromasin pills then you are taking the best AI there is. And with proviron you should do very well.
AI's are used to increase natural test levels. They do this by lowering estrogen. HUH? Yes by lowering estrogen you raise test in your body. That's because your body doesn't measure the amount of test you have to determine if it should make more. The HPTA (system controlling your test) "knows" that test is converted to estrogen by the aromatese. So when the HPTA reads low estrogen it signals the testes to start producing more test. So when you use AIFM or similar AI you lower your estrogen levels, this triggers the HPTA to read "we need more test down there" and your test levels then go up as the testes start pumping it out. The AI will continue to limit the conversion and the HPTA will continue to read low estrogen and keep your natural test levels at the high side or normal."
__________________

Like he said running a AI will lower your estrogen tricking your testes to make more test until estrogen returns to normal. but lack of estrogen and being that low will dry you out hurt your joints and ultimately make you weaker. Higher estrogen especially on cycle the stronger You'll feel for sure. now when you get off your AI you have been a little weaker and your estrogen climbs back up and having to take nolva to combat the spike. All for what? to chance fucking up your lipids and messing with your sex drive cause low estrogen killlllssss sex drive and coming back with slightly higher test levels that hopefully hold after losing strength from the low Estro?Maybe time for the sauce get stacked up run a pct levels go back out to normal and you have extra size to keep with it. :lightbulb: