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What do you think is the correct weekly dose for Primo ?
- Thread starter The Wolf
- Start date
- Joined
- Jul 26, 2006
- Messages
- 109
I have been using 500/wk with test .. very good resluts.
what are you hoping to see from the primo? hardness? growth?
i always ask myself this when taking anything gear, supp, food.....
primo holds some mistique with people for some reason i dont know? i assume it is the price,"if it costs that much it has to be good" i dont belive so.....
as far as results go you would probably notice a better effect from taking 20-30mg of var a day than 800mg of primo a week....
F
Future
Guest
Primobolan
(methenolone acetate)
Primobolan is one of those anabolic steroids which has a cult following not unlike the old original version of Masteron. Actually, as you can easily see from it´s anabolic:androgenic ratio below in the profile, it´s a pretty weak steroid but actually stronger(!) than Masteron in both regards. I don´t know anyone who has run both compounds at the same dose. We are probably justified in speculating that you´d probably get similar results from either of them, when you consider the fact that you are getting quite a bit less actual drug and more ester when you choose injectable Primobolan (which has the very long Enanthate ester attached to it) over Masteron (which has the very short propionate ester attached to it). In truth, I think part of the reason many Primobolan users have been disappointed is that they failed to use enough of it, for long enough. From it´s chemical structure and anabolic:androgenic rating, we can assume it is at least as effective as Masteron, on an equal Mg for mg basis. However, due to its ester (in the injectable version), it needs to be run for at least 12 weeks to see the full benefits from it. When you consider a measly dose of 400mgs of this stuff for 12 weeks will probably cost you around $500.
It´s easy to see why many people have tried to use less...and have been disappointed with their results. On the other hand, many competitive bodybuilders consider Primobolan indespensible to their pre-contest drud routine, and wouldn´t consider dieting without it. Anyway...I think the comparison to Masteron (another great precontest drug) is the best one we can make, with reference to expected gains and results.
I happen to be one of the few people who have used Drostanolone Enanthate (Masteron with the Enanthate ester attached) as well as Methenolone Enanthate (injectable Primobolan). I can tell you that the results from these two compounds, when ester and mg potency are the same, are in fact very similar.
Effects of Primobolan
Let´s flesh out some of the various general effects of Primobolan, before we get into the differences between the oral and injectable versions... One study performed on sheep involved administering 100mgs of Methenolone, and electronically stimulating their lats (electronic stimulation was used because they kept falling off the chin-up bars). Anyway, when compared with the lat muscles of sheep who didn´t receive Methenolone, the receiving group gained significantly more muscle mass as well as strength (1)(2). It´s also has a relatively high affinity for binding to the AR, actually binding better than testosterone (3). This ability to strongly bind to the AR may be why Primobolan is such a good "fat burner." Strong AR binding has been positively correlated with lypolysis (fat-burning) (8).
In addition, as this steroid can actually aid in reducing breast tumors, no ancillary products need be considered for use with Primobolan, and in fact, it may actually be a useful ancillary agent in it´s own right, similar to Masteron. Also, just like Masteron, Primobolan has no propensity to aromatize (convert to estrogen). Since it doesn´t aromatize, alot of the side effects commonly associated with estrogen will not be of concern. This means water retention, acne, and gyno will be non-existent more or less. this lack of water retention combined with the slow and steady gains provided by Primo may help to explain why it has earned a reputation for creating quality muscle gains. This also helps to explain why it is so expensive. Although estrogenic sides are not a concern, hair loss still, remains a very real concern with Primobolan, as with many DHT-Derived steroids. Many primobolan fans always include Finasteride and Ketoconazole (shampoo) in cycles containing Primobolan.
Although nobody would ever suggest to use Primobolan as a bulking agent, it´s been studied as an agent to halt wasting and possibly reverse many of the adverse effects of anemia. It is a shocking failure in both areas, according to some of the case studies I´ve read, (5)(6) and this should come to no surprise to anyone. Anadrol reigns supreme in this area, and nobody in the athletic community would ever compare those two drugs. However, Michael Mooney and many other respected doctors who work with AIDS patients have found sufficient evidence to claim that Primobolan is an immune enhancer and as such is very useful for AIDS patients (not that the FDA cares...Primobolan is still not approved for sale in the United States). AIDS patients aren´t really in need of Bulking Drugs, so an immune enhancer like Primo which will add small, quality gains in muscle is perfect for them. And since we aren´t even going to vaguely consider the use of Primobolan as a bulking agent, clearly this leaves us with considering it primarily for use in gaining and maintaining lean tissue. It´s a great choice for this purpose, and many competitors have used it very successfully to retain muscle while on a calorie reduced diet. The reason Primo is so useful for this purpose is that one of its primary functions is to help your body retain nitrogen (7) at a greatly enhanced rate. The greater your nitrogen retention is, the more muscle you will build. In the case of using primo as a pre-contest drug, this nitrogen retention will help you retain muscle and ensure that your dieting preferentially favors fat loss over muscle loss.
Primobolan is a very unique steroid, as it is one of the few that comes in both an oral as well as an injectable version. I suppose Winstrol does also, but Primobolan actually has a different ester on the oral (acetate ) and injectable (Enanthate) versions. The oral version is one of the more interesting oral compounds I´ve looked into. For starters, it´s one of the few compounds available to athletes and bodybuilders which is both oral as well as non-17-alpha-alkylation. This alteration is (as I´m sure you remember from other stuff I´ve written) what generally makes oral steroids survive their first pass through your liver, but also makes them Hepatoxic (Liver toxic). Well... oral Primo doesn´t have this feature, so it is very mild on your liver (actually it basically isn´t liver toxic at all), but also is largely destroyed by it, since 17 beta estrification and 1 alkylation is the method used to make this stuff orally available. You´ll need to take a lot of this stuff for it to be effective... 100mgs/day of the oral version is a safe estimate for reasonable gains& for women, you could get away with less; perhaps 25mgs/day. Even though the acetate ester has a 2-3 day active life, your liver will do some damage to oral primo, so every day dosing will still be necessary.
When men were given a 30-45mg dose of the oral version of Primo, they experienced a 15-65% decrease in gonadotropin levels (9). Remember, I said 100mgs is a good dose for gains... well, you´ll also reduce your gonadotropin levels considerably. I have personally never understood why people recommend either oral or injectable Primobolan as a possible bridging compound for this reason... maybe at a too-low-to-do-anything dose of 10mgs it could be used as a bridge. And forget about using injectable Primo to bridge&
Hey... speaking about injectable Primo...
I´ve used this stuff at 200mgs/week and wasn´t very impressed with it. Generally, I think injectable primo needs to be used at a dose of at least 350mgs/week (100mgs/Every other Day), and preferably at a dose of 400-600mgs/week. I happen to like running it with testosterone propionate, but for convenience I would imagine most people would run it with Testosterone Enanthate, to keep dosing times the same (shooting it twice per week, in most cases).
Buying Primobolan
The unfortunate truth about injectable Primo is that it´s a very expensive chemical to obtain, and that price is reflected in the cost to the average consumer. Ten dollars per 1ml/100mg ampule is not unheard of, and I´ve seen it go for more. This is, of course, absurd. As if that´s not enough, this is also the most commonly counterfeited steroids on the black market. I recommend buying Primobolan (either the oral or injectable) from a respected Underground lab instead of trying to play a game of "spot the fake steroid" in Mexico or Europe. The underground versions should cost between $5-7 for 100mgs of Methenolone and I wouldn´t really consider paying more for it, although I have seen the British Dragon version of this product priced up to $20/ml.
Primobolan Profile
(Methenolone)
(Oral Version is + Acetate Ester)
(Injectable Version is + Enanthate Ester)
[17beta-Hydroxy-1-methyl-5alpha-androst-1-en-3-one]
Molecular weight of base: 302.4558
Molecular weight of Acetate ester: 60.0524
Molecular weight of Enanthate ester: 130.1864
Formula: C20H30O2
Melting Point:
Manufacturer: Schering
Effective dose(oral): (Men)50-100mgs/day; (Women) 10-25mgs/day
Effective dose (injectable): (Men) 350-600mgs/week; (Women) 100mgs/week
Active Life: 10-14 days (injectable); 4-6hrs (oral)
Detection Time: 4-5 weeks
Anabolic/Androgenic Ratio (Range): 88:44-57
References:
1. Anabolic steroids (metenolone) improve muscle performance and hemodynamic characteristics in cardiomyoplasty. Ann Thorac Surg. 1995 Apr;59(4):961-9; discussion 969-70.
2. Effect of an anabolic steroid (Metenolon) on contractile performance of the chronically stimulated latissimus dorsi in sheep. Eur J Cardiothorac Surg. 1994;8(4):214-9.
3. Relative binding affinity of anabolic-androgenic steroids: comparison of the binding to the androgen receptors in skeletal muscle and in prostate, as well as to sex hormone-binding globulin. Endocrinology. 1984 Jun;114(6):2100-6.
4. [Anabolic therapy in metastatic breast cancer] Med Klin. 1981 Nov 20;76(24):689-91. German.
5. Partial remission and severe adverse effect caused by metenolone acetate in a male patient with aplastic anem. Eur J Haematol. 1995 Jul;55(1):57-8.
6. Fatal outcome of a patient with severe aplastic anemia after treatment with metenolone acetate. Ann Hematol. 1993 Jul;67(1):41-3.
7. Metabolic effects of anabolic steroids. Wien Med Wochenschr. 1993;143(14-15):368-75.
8. Biochim Biophys Acta. 1995 May 11;1244(1):117-20.
9. Comparative Studies about the influence of MetenoloneAcetate and Mesterolone on hypophysis and male gonads. Arzneimittelforshung. 1970 20(4) 545-7
(methenolone acetate)
Primobolan is one of those anabolic steroids which has a cult following not unlike the old original version of Masteron. Actually, as you can easily see from it´s anabolic:androgenic ratio below in the profile, it´s a pretty weak steroid but actually stronger(!) than Masteron in both regards. I don´t know anyone who has run both compounds at the same dose. We are probably justified in speculating that you´d probably get similar results from either of them, when you consider the fact that you are getting quite a bit less actual drug and more ester when you choose injectable Primobolan (which has the very long Enanthate ester attached to it) over Masteron (which has the very short propionate ester attached to it). In truth, I think part of the reason many Primobolan users have been disappointed is that they failed to use enough of it, for long enough. From it´s chemical structure and anabolic:androgenic rating, we can assume it is at least as effective as Masteron, on an equal Mg for mg basis. However, due to its ester (in the injectable version), it needs to be run for at least 12 weeks to see the full benefits from it. When you consider a measly dose of 400mgs of this stuff for 12 weeks will probably cost you around $500.
It´s easy to see why many people have tried to use less...and have been disappointed with their results. On the other hand, many competitive bodybuilders consider Primobolan indespensible to their pre-contest drud routine, and wouldn´t consider dieting without it. Anyway...I think the comparison to Masteron (another great precontest drug) is the best one we can make, with reference to expected gains and results.
I happen to be one of the few people who have used Drostanolone Enanthate (Masteron with the Enanthate ester attached) as well as Methenolone Enanthate (injectable Primobolan). I can tell you that the results from these two compounds, when ester and mg potency are the same, are in fact very similar.
Effects of Primobolan
Let´s flesh out some of the various general effects of Primobolan, before we get into the differences between the oral and injectable versions... One study performed on sheep involved administering 100mgs of Methenolone, and electronically stimulating their lats (electronic stimulation was used because they kept falling off the chin-up bars). Anyway, when compared with the lat muscles of sheep who didn´t receive Methenolone, the receiving group gained significantly more muscle mass as well as strength (1)(2). It´s also has a relatively high affinity for binding to the AR, actually binding better than testosterone (3). This ability to strongly bind to the AR may be why Primobolan is such a good "fat burner." Strong AR binding has been positively correlated with lypolysis (fat-burning) (8).
In addition, as this steroid can actually aid in reducing breast tumors, no ancillary products need be considered for use with Primobolan, and in fact, it may actually be a useful ancillary agent in it´s own right, similar to Masteron. Also, just like Masteron, Primobolan has no propensity to aromatize (convert to estrogen). Since it doesn´t aromatize, alot of the side effects commonly associated with estrogen will not be of concern. This means water retention, acne, and gyno will be non-existent more or less. this lack of water retention combined with the slow and steady gains provided by Primo may help to explain why it has earned a reputation for creating quality muscle gains. This also helps to explain why it is so expensive. Although estrogenic sides are not a concern, hair loss still, remains a very real concern with Primobolan, as with many DHT-Derived steroids. Many primobolan fans always include Finasteride and Ketoconazole (shampoo) in cycles containing Primobolan.
Although nobody would ever suggest to use Primobolan as a bulking agent, it´s been studied as an agent to halt wasting and possibly reverse many of the adverse effects of anemia. It is a shocking failure in both areas, according to some of the case studies I´ve read, (5)(6) and this should come to no surprise to anyone. Anadrol reigns supreme in this area, and nobody in the athletic community would ever compare those two drugs. However, Michael Mooney and many other respected doctors who work with AIDS patients have found sufficient evidence to claim that Primobolan is an immune enhancer and as such is very useful for AIDS patients (not that the FDA cares...Primobolan is still not approved for sale in the United States). AIDS patients aren´t really in need of Bulking Drugs, so an immune enhancer like Primo which will add small, quality gains in muscle is perfect for them. And since we aren´t even going to vaguely consider the use of Primobolan as a bulking agent, clearly this leaves us with considering it primarily for use in gaining and maintaining lean tissue. It´s a great choice for this purpose, and many competitors have used it very successfully to retain muscle while on a calorie reduced diet. The reason Primo is so useful for this purpose is that one of its primary functions is to help your body retain nitrogen (7) at a greatly enhanced rate. The greater your nitrogen retention is, the more muscle you will build. In the case of using primo as a pre-contest drug, this nitrogen retention will help you retain muscle and ensure that your dieting preferentially favors fat loss over muscle loss.
Primobolan is a very unique steroid, as it is one of the few that comes in both an oral as well as an injectable version. I suppose Winstrol does also, but Primobolan actually has a different ester on the oral (acetate ) and injectable (Enanthate) versions. The oral version is one of the more interesting oral compounds I´ve looked into. For starters, it´s one of the few compounds available to athletes and bodybuilders which is both oral as well as non-17-alpha-alkylation. This alteration is (as I´m sure you remember from other stuff I´ve written) what generally makes oral steroids survive their first pass through your liver, but also makes them Hepatoxic (Liver toxic). Well... oral Primo doesn´t have this feature, so it is very mild on your liver (actually it basically isn´t liver toxic at all), but also is largely destroyed by it, since 17 beta estrification and 1 alkylation is the method used to make this stuff orally available. You´ll need to take a lot of this stuff for it to be effective... 100mgs/day of the oral version is a safe estimate for reasonable gains& for women, you could get away with less; perhaps 25mgs/day. Even though the acetate ester has a 2-3 day active life, your liver will do some damage to oral primo, so every day dosing will still be necessary.
When men were given a 30-45mg dose of the oral version of Primo, they experienced a 15-65% decrease in gonadotropin levels (9). Remember, I said 100mgs is a good dose for gains... well, you´ll also reduce your gonadotropin levels considerably. I have personally never understood why people recommend either oral or injectable Primobolan as a possible bridging compound for this reason... maybe at a too-low-to-do-anything dose of 10mgs it could be used as a bridge. And forget about using injectable Primo to bridge&
Hey... speaking about injectable Primo...
I´ve used this stuff at 200mgs/week and wasn´t very impressed with it. Generally, I think injectable primo needs to be used at a dose of at least 350mgs/week (100mgs/Every other Day), and preferably at a dose of 400-600mgs/week. I happen to like running it with testosterone propionate, but for convenience I would imagine most people would run it with Testosterone Enanthate, to keep dosing times the same (shooting it twice per week, in most cases).
Buying Primobolan
The unfortunate truth about injectable Primo is that it´s a very expensive chemical to obtain, and that price is reflected in the cost to the average consumer. Ten dollars per 1ml/100mg ampule is not unheard of, and I´ve seen it go for more. This is, of course, absurd. As if that´s not enough, this is also the most commonly counterfeited steroids on the black market. I recommend buying Primobolan (either the oral or injectable) from a respected Underground lab instead of trying to play a game of "spot the fake steroid" in Mexico or Europe. The underground versions should cost between $5-7 for 100mgs of Methenolone and I wouldn´t really consider paying more for it, although I have seen the British Dragon version of this product priced up to $20/ml.
Primobolan Profile
(Methenolone)
(Oral Version is + Acetate Ester)
(Injectable Version is + Enanthate Ester)
[17beta-Hydroxy-1-methyl-5alpha-androst-1-en-3-one]
Molecular weight of base: 302.4558
Molecular weight of Acetate ester: 60.0524
Molecular weight of Enanthate ester: 130.1864
Formula: C20H30O2
Melting Point:
Manufacturer: Schering
Effective dose(oral): (Men)50-100mgs/day; (Women) 10-25mgs/day
Effective dose (injectable): (Men) 350-600mgs/week; (Women) 100mgs/week
Active Life: 10-14 days (injectable); 4-6hrs (oral)
Detection Time: 4-5 weeks
Anabolic/Androgenic Ratio (Range): 88:44-57
References:
1. Anabolic steroids (metenolone) improve muscle performance and hemodynamic characteristics in cardiomyoplasty. Ann Thorac Surg. 1995 Apr;59(4):961-9; discussion 969-70.
2. Effect of an anabolic steroid (Metenolon) on contractile performance of the chronically stimulated latissimus dorsi in sheep. Eur J Cardiothorac Surg. 1994;8(4):214-9.
3. Relative binding affinity of anabolic-androgenic steroids: comparison of the binding to the androgen receptors in skeletal muscle and in prostate, as well as to sex hormone-binding globulin. Endocrinology. 1984 Jun;114(6):2100-6.
4. [Anabolic therapy in metastatic breast cancer] Med Klin. 1981 Nov 20;76(24):689-91. German.
5. Partial remission and severe adverse effect caused by metenolone acetate in a male patient with aplastic anem. Eur J Haematol. 1995 Jul;55(1):57-8.
6. Fatal outcome of a patient with severe aplastic anemia after treatment with metenolone acetate. Ann Hematol. 1993 Jul;67(1):41-3.
7. Metabolic effects of anabolic steroids. Wien Med Wochenschr. 1993;143(14-15):368-75.
8. Biochim Biophys Acta. 1995 May 11;1244(1):117-20.
9. Comparative Studies about the influence of MetenoloneAcetate and Mesterolone on hypophysis and male gonads. Arzneimittelforshung. 1970 20(4) 545-7
- Joined
- Dec 18, 2005
- Messages
- 36
I like to run it with a winny jumpstart, combo works great, once Im done with the winny the primos kicking in. I got nice results at 500mgs. I think guys run it with too many water retaining compounds so they dont get to see the full effects of the primo.
- Joined
- Mar 7, 2006
- Messages
- 1,419
Because its legal to buy where I am, we dont think much of it thats why bros out here reckon they have to take over a gram a week to get results. I prefer it to bridge cycles but the only downside of bridging/cruising is you dont give your receptors a chance to clean up.
Much prefer deca or tren for bulking,imho primo is numero uno for cutting and bridging. Thanks for your opinions and views.
Much prefer deca or tren for bulking,imho primo is numero uno for cutting and bridging. Thanks for your opinions and views.
myself i never used it in all my years. see no need for itSimilar threads
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