What does metformin do exactly ?

[Muay Thai]

I like to think of it more as just additional data to consider. It's a slam dunk "yes" for me because I'm not looking to get any bigger now that I'm over 50. I still train intensely and get plenty of rigorous exercise but longevity and avoiding a pre-diabetic state are my primary goals now. Because I do up the calories no doubt, especially in winter. And I love food.

Would I have taken it in my 20's and 30's? I doubt it. Longevity was of no concern to me then. I never thought I'd even see 50 with the way I behaved. But here I am. Everything Type-IIx wrote is likely true. He's darn good with research without a doubt.

But with MET and BERB, as with any drug or supplement, we weigh the strengths and weaknesses and decide if it's right for us. What conclusion we come to will be what it will be. Some pretty big dudes out there taking MET, though.

Can PEDs and B12/Fe supplementation offset the AMP-activated protein kinase, VLDL, and B12 effects? I don't know. Maybe we'll never know. Opinions are mixed as always. Studies are as well. All I can say is that I tolerate very well and will probably take it and rhGH for the rest of my days (or at least until I'm ready to leave it all behind). But I'm not there yet. Not at all.

would you recommend that someone like me continue taking it if we have it free?
i take slin preworkout 3x per week still 10iu

my diet is regardless lower in carbs than 90% of the bros here , I am lucky to clear 2k cal per day , which is a big increase from 1500-1700ish, adding equipoise has helped me do this recently

with that said, perhaps only reserve it for my high carb cheat meal 1x per week etc? if def helps keep me lean and feel good.

 

[slesh]

"Trained testers" don't lift or workout like we do. MET hasn't been tested on endurance athletes either, i know guys on 150mg test and EPO who take MET. Hard work changes MTOR more than MET does. Add an anabolic and you get even better results. IMHO the health benefits(reduces chronic inflammation) only add to the ability to build a better body.

1000% agree - I’ve grown significantly while being on Metformin. I take all these studies with a grain of salt - context is everything…

 

[OuchThatHurts]

would you recommend that someone like me continue taking it if we have it free?
i take slin preworkout 3x per week still 10iu

my diet is regardless lower in carbs than 90% of the bros here , I am lucky to clear 2k cal per day , which is a big increase from 1500-1700ish, adding equipoise has helped me do this recently

with that said, perhaps only reserve it for my high carb cheat meal 1x per week etc? if def helps keep me lean and feel good.

Yikes. I usually have 2000cals down by 10AM and I only use 3-5 units pre-workout with about the same after my workouts and that knocks my BG down into the 80's and I consume 4000-5000 calories on workout days.

If I were you, I wouldn't do anything without/until getting a blood glucose monitor. They're cheap. I've tested so much and know exactly what I'm going to consume and base it all off that. Taking a glucose disposal agent along with slin on 2000cals/day seems like a disaster waiting to happen.

Maybe the high carb meals is good but unless you're diabetic, I would think your own body can handle the slin production. But until you know how your body is handling sugar, I'd be very cautious.

 

[bg65]

Good stuff as always.

How do we determine insulin sensitivity? When I began gh I started testing blood sugar in the am. It was always over 100. At home meter. But at doctor it was always perfect. All tests fasted. I began taking metformin it had no affect on these numbers. I'm thinking I have insulin resistance going on now.

I then got my a1c tested and find out it's actually low out of range. 4.3 then 4.7. this would indicate the opposite of what my hand glucose monitor says, that I'm very insulin sensitive, correct?

Is there a specific test that determines if we have good insulin sensitivity?

In general a laboratory test trumps a point of care test, even in the hospital setting where the POC machines are frequently calibrated. I would definitely trust a lab's hgbA1c measurement over your home glucometer. Your avg a1c is 4.5 which equates to an avg blood glucose of 82. It is a little odd you're over 100 fasted in AM though. Do you eat big dinners or do a midnight shake or anything?

 

[fredmac82]

1000% agree - I’ve grown significantly while being on Metformin. I take all these studies with a grain of salt - context is everything…

I agree, I have grown tremendously while taking metformin as well. If your taking anabolics the theory of Metiform inhibiting your growth is false. The studies that were done showing metformin inhibiting growth were performed on sedentary old people. Not folks that workout consistently while taking anabolics.

 

[qbkilla]

In general a laboratory test trumps a point of care test, even in the hospital setting where the POC machines are frequently calibrated. I would definitely trust a lab's hgbA1c measurement over your home glucometer. Your avg a1c is 4.5 which equates to an avg blood glucose of 82. It is a little odd you're over 100 fasted in AM though. Do you eat big dinners or do a midnight shake or anything?

I do ear a huge neal 800 calories before bed. Pro and fat with some carbs. Casien almond milk fruit walnuts

 

[Cerberus777]

would you recommend that someone like me continue taking it if we have it free?
i take slin preworkout 3x per week still 10iu

my diet is regardless lower in carbs than 90% of the bros here , I am lucky to clear 2k cal per day , which is a big increase from 1500-1700ish, adding equipoise has helped me do this recently

with that said, perhaps only reserve it for my high carb cheat meal 1x per week etc? if def helps keep me lean and feel good.

If low carb use berberine or low dose met, both stop gluconeogenesis improve sensitivity and reduce inflammation.

 

[OuchThatHurts]

If low carb use berberine or low dose met, both stop gluconeogenesis improve sensitivity and reduce inflammation.

@Muay Thai

 

[bg65]

I do ear a huge neal 800 calories before bed. Pro and fat with some carbs. Casien almond milk fruit walnuts

If you're worried abt it you could cut down your nightly feast and test your AM sugar as an experiment but with that a1c i doubt you have anything to worry abt. You're nearly at the lower limit of the normal range for a1c values, that's pretty dang insulin sensitive.
Out of curiosity, what are your blood sugar values in AM?

 

[bg65]

Is there a specific test that determines if we have good insulin sensitivity?

Sorry, missed this...
From what i have read the bad signs pointing toward diabetes are a fasting AM glucose above 126, elevated hgbA1c (generally above 7 and if elevated but still below 7 would call it metabolic syndrome or prediabetes).
There's a glucose challenge done on pregnant women where they drink a certain amount of sugar and then test blood sugar at some time interval to see if they have gestational DM. For shits and giggles you could look that up and duplicate it at home. Although i am fairly certain you aren't pregnant so you'd have to see if there's values for men.
The thing is though (I've not looked) but i highly doubt there's any studies on this stuff with BBrs using supraphysiologic levels of GH. If the elevated AM glucose only started when you started running GH and the a1c was also obtained during that time i wouldn't worry abt it. When you come off GH just keep testing your sugars for a bit.
The caveat here is that a1c goes back 3 months so say you started GH and 2 weeks later assessed your a1c it wouldn't accurately reflect what's going on. If you're just a few weeks in you could check a fructosamine test or wait until 3 mos pass and repeat hgbA1c

 

[qbkilla]

If you're worried abt it you could cut down your nightly feast and test your AM sugar as an experiment but with that a1c i doubt you have anything to worry abt. You're nearly at the lower limit of the normal range for a1c values, that's pretty dang insulin sensitive.
Out of curiosity, what are your blood sugar values in AM?

They would be anywhere from 90 to 120. Thing is I could get 110 then prick my other hand a minute later it says 95. I tried different brand meters too that were highly rated. Not s believer in meeters being accurate if they can give readings far apart a few minutes later. But labs always are perfect and yeah a1c is low out of range. I'm 5'11 185-190 low bf, cardio regular, the guy in the gym leaving gains on the table to stay lean year round that's me. Diet is 3100 training days and 2800 off days. 350 carb training days 70 or less off days. Gh 3 iu 1g long acting metformin and fish oil Ed. So although carbs aren't super low like keto no surprise if my insulin sensitivity is good.

Btw great information on this thread...why this is the forum I still check daily

 

[qbkilla]

Sorry, missed this...
From what i have read the bad signs pointing toward diabetes are a fasting AM glucose above 126, elevated hgbA1c (generally above 7 and if elevated but still below 7 would call it metabolic syndrome or prediabetes).
There's a glucose challenge done on pregnant women where they drink a certain amount of sugar and then test blood sugar at some time interval to see if they have gestational DM. For shits and giggles you could look that up and duplicate it at home. Although i am fairly certain you aren't pregnant so you'd have to see if there's values for men.
The thing is though (I've not looked) but i highly doubt there's any studies on this stuff with BBrs using supraphysiologic levels of GH. If the elevated AM glucose only started when you started running GH and the a1c was also obtained during that time i wouldn't worry abt it. When you come off GH just keep testing your sugars for a bit.
The caveat here is that a1c goes back 3 months so say you started GH and 2 weeks later assessed your a1c it wouldn't accurately reflect what's going on. If you're just a few weeks in you could check a fructosamine test or wait until 3 mos pass and repeat hgbA1c

I wonder if a low a1c out of range can ever be a bad thing? I googled didn't see it as w symptom of any disease.

 

[whacked]

I wonder if a low a1c out of range can ever be a bad thing? I googled didn't see it as w symptom of any disease.

Very low HbA1C, is it a problem?

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[Type-IIx]

I have heard Metiform inhibits mTOR complex 1 (protein synthesis, translation) thereby reducing hypertrophy. But if your taking anabolics this would counteract the inhibition of mTOR and it would not reduce hypertrophy in a person on gear. If you're on gear and taking Metiform you wouldn't have to worry about mTOR being reduced. I think this study was done on old sedentary people taking Metiform and not enhanced folks like ourselves.

No, anabolics do not counteract the inhibition of mTOR by Met. Yes, they do stimulate mTOR. The study was, as mentioned, on elderly sedentary folks - and yet enhanced bodybuilders like yourself are still subject to Met's blocking mTOR.

 

[Type-IIx]

I have heard Metiform inhibits mTOR complex 1 (protein synthesis, translation) thereby reducing hypertrophy. But if your taking anabolics this would counteract the inhibition of mTOR and it would not reduce hypertrophy in a person on gear. If you're on gear and taking Metiform you wouldn't have to worry about mTOR being reduced. I think this study was done on old sedentary people taking Metiform and not enhanced folks like ourselves.

No, anabolics do not counteract the inhibition of mTOR by Met. Yes, they do stimulate mTOR. The study was, as mentioned, on elderly sedentary folks - and yet enhanced bodybuilders like yourself are still subject to Met's blocking mTOR.

 

[Type-IIx]

Good stuff as always.

How do we determine insulin sensitivity? When I began gh I started testing blood sugar in the am. It was always over 100. At home meter. But at doctor it was always perfect. All tests fasted. I began taking metformin it had no affect on these numbers. I'm thinking I have insulin resistance going on now.

I then got my a1c tested and find out it's actually low out of range. 4.3 then 4.7. this would indicate the opposite of what my hand glucose monitor says, that I'm very insulin sensitive, correct?

Is there a specific test that determines if we have good insulin sensitivity?

Practically, HbA1C measured in lab is a superior proxy for chronic insulin resistance than your at-home glucometer. The Oral Glucose Tolerance Test is the gold standard, but probably impracticable for you.

 

[fredmac82]

No, anabolics do not counteract the inhibition of mTOR by Met. Yes, they do stimulate mTOR. The study was, as mentioned, on elderly sedentary folks - and yet enhanced bodybuilders like yourself are still subject to Met's blocking mTOR.

Would you say then since anabolics stimulate mTOR and Met inhibits mTOR that if taking large enough quantity of anabolics would override the effect of Met inhibition of mTOR?

 

[Type-IIx]

Would you say then since anabolics stimulate mTOR and Met inhibits mTOR that if taking large enough quantity of anabolics would override the effect of Met inhibition of mTOR?

No, but I would say that you can build an elite physique, as in win the Olympia, on anabolics & Met with everything else in place (including genetic endowment of course), because AMPK-mediated mTOR inhibition by Met is just not substantial enough to worry about with enough talent and proper drugs, nutrition, etc.

 

[bg65]

your 4.3 and 4.7 hgbA1c values are both WNL. They are not too low, they are great. You don't have insulin resistance unless youre pinning insulin to get those numbers or are dependent on metformin for them. A1c is really like the "premiere" marker to monitor blood sugar/insulin resistance. From my understanding, there's few ways to dupe the test... If you made some regimen change in the last few weeks (like i mentioned above), if you got like a large volume blood transfusion prior to the test (coz someone else's blood is skewing the test), or if your blood sugar is very labile. Your fasted AM blood sugar may be post-prandial from your dinner but that's kind of a long time... I'm pretty sure fasted has to be at least 6 hours but 800 cals is a solid intake. If you're sweatin it skip dinner one night and see what it is in AM. But the a1c values are great. I haven't checked mine for a while but i was also low 4 range

 

[bg65]

Like type-IIx mentioned, the Oral Glucose Tolerance Test may be gold standard but that is very rarely done except for preggo ladies. Your a1c is fine unless you're only achieving that w meds.