What happened 1990-1991?!?!?!?

[upeccmi]

In 1991, I was around 25, at the peak of bodybuilding for me. I was not a california pro, even though NJ was a hotbed of bodybuilding then. I remember steroids going to schedule 3 and it got very hard to get anything real, lots of fakes going around caused me to go overeseas, long before internet, I had to actually make a trip to spain, france, Andorra. I remember learning of a new diet aide (clenbuterol) that helped us diet. Stuff like HGH was taken by pros or top national BBs as it was so expensive. IGF and insulin what I recall was the big thing I was told the pros took that turned Ronnie Coleman from 12th in the O to 1st.

 

[thethinker48]

I am sorry but better focus on training and recovery Obviously those come into it (are everything) but people didn't get 20 pounds+ bigger because they all suddenly started training better etc. Yes the genetic pool was great then so that comes into it too. Drugs is pretty much your answer for this and if it happens again in the next 20 years it will be drugs again. I am not dismissing the importance of everything else merely stating the obvious.

Elvia Stahp!

I was trying to sound smart...

P.S- 90s had quite a few bodybuilders who trained like human fork lifts combined with genetics and a new approach to drugs = freaks

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[Love_to_Bodybuild]

Big A Dorian is saying that he used it in 96 and 97 off-season. Never used it pre-contest as he though it interfered with his condition which is what he prides himself upon. He is saying it actually made his waist bigger and didn't help his look and his grainy condition.

He is NOT giving insulin any credit here from the sound of it.


https://youtu.be/3yQedQn7Ot4

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Thanks for posting

You and I have read a lot of Dorian interviews watched his videos etc.

Yes in the lowdown on drugs interview with Shawn Ray, Kevin, and Dorian, Dorian mentions he used insulin in 96 and 97 .

 

[Mike Arnold]

It wasn't 90-91 but it was 92-93.

Yates, as he said it himself numerous times, started using insulin. Then the same change happened to everyone else 93-94 as they all started using insulin plus the mental barrier of being that much larger was removed.

This is Yates 92-93-95:

Actually, Yates said he didn't use insulin until the end of his career...during the offseason. He credits insulin with the jump in bodyweight he experienced that year, as he competed in 1997' at 270 lbs--a full 10-13 lbs heavier than he had been for his previous 4 Mr. Olympia wins (he weighed 257-260 lbs during the 93'-96' Olympias).

However, he said he did not like the look it provided...and that despite weighing 270 lbs, he was not able to achieve the crisp, dry conditioning he was known for.

 

[Phidias]

He is NOT giving insulin any credit here from the sound of it.

That's PRECISELY why I think he's lying... when something works so well that it causes a drastic change in your physique (especially when you're already at the top like Dorian was), you just DON'T want people to know or at least give too much credit to it... human nature...

GH clearly was NOT the game changer, insulin indeed was... before 97 and certainly not in the 8-10 IU's range around workout only... lol...

EDIT: and btw, it's SOOOOO easy to blame your lack on conditioning on slin... everyone does it out of pure ignorance, so Dorian (who's a very smart man) just told people what they wanted to hear, cause 99% of bodybuilders are sincerely convinced slin will bloat them... when actually too much carbs will, NOT sln.

 

[Phidias]

Levrone said this condition was the result of not having used ANY gh yet. Once he hopped on gh he could never again duplicate it.

Was he honest? What do you think Big A?

Here, on the other hand, I'd believe Levrone... GH, especially at high doses, will cause such an INSANE water retention, it's absolutely impossible to look peeled with deep separations in muscles if you don't stop it at least 2 weeks out before contest... even using strong diuretics is not enough to get rid of all GH induced bloat.

So in this case, Kevin might have used it, but was either knowledgeable enough to stop a few weeks before the O, or he just ran out of stuff at mid prep...

 

[Mike Arnold]

Elvia Stahp!

I was trying to sound smart...

P.S- 90s had quite a few bodybuilders who trained like human fork lifts combined with genetics and a new approach to drugs = freaks

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I agree. Many guys like to credit drugs as the reason for the increased size that bodybuilders experienced during the early-mid 90's, but increased knowledge of training and recovery played a BIG role as well. The guys who weren't around back then often don't realize how much training changed during that short time period. The shift was rapid and extreme.

Basically, prior to Dorian winning the 93' Olympia, nearly every bodybuilder trained each bodypart at least twice per week, with 15-20 sets per bodypart. Some did less sets than that, but basically everyone trained at least twice per week...and sometimes more. It was a high volume, high frequency approach...and it ruled the day.

This style of training was adopted in the 70's and remained the standard all the way until Dorian broke new size barriers in 93'. After Dorian revolutionized the size game virtually EVERYONE, including the pros, started to emulate his training approach. No, not everyone did only 1 working set to failure, but nearly everyone implemented his basic principles, which centered around "intensity" and "recovery" with a overriding emphasis on progressive resistance rather than the pump.

Suddenly, everyone drastically reduced their training volume while also reducing their training frequency from 2-3X per week to once every 5-7 days.

This one change allowed bodybuilders to get much stronger than ever before and as a result, they got bigger than ever.

While drugs may have allowed these bodybuilder to take full advantage of this new style of training, I have no doubt that if bodybuilders had continued utilizing the high volume, high frequency approach, they never would have been able to push those kind of weights and hence, they never would have grown to the size they did.

So, while several factors played a role in the increased size of bodybuilders during the 90's, it would NOT have happened if it were not for the shift in training that we experienced. Dorian Yates is largely to thank for that...because he was almost entirely responsible for getting people to change their old ways and try something new...and it never would have happened if he didn't break new size barriers as the reigning Mr. Olympia. Heck, prior to this most bodybuilders actually thought they would shrink if they only trained each bodypart once per week.

 

[Phidias]

Heck, prior to this most bodybuilders actually thought they would shrink if they only trained each bodypart once per week.

Actually, go to about every damn gym around the world and you'll see this mindset hasn't changed much...

That was a good post you just wrote, Mike, with which I fully agree.

 

[Mike Arnold]

That's PRECISELY why I think he's lying... when something works so well that it causes a drastic change in your physique (especially when you're already at the top like Dorian was), you just DON'T want people to know or at least give too much credit to it... human nature...

GH clearly was NOT the game changer, insulin indeed was... before 97 and certainly not in the 8-10 IU's range around workout only... lol...

EDIT: and btw, it's SOOOOO easy to blame your lack on conditioning on slin... everyone does it out of pure ignorance, so Dorian (who's a very smart man) just told people what they wanted to hear, cause 99% of bodybuilders are sincerely convinced slin will bloat them... when actually too much carbs will, NOT sln.

Certainly, there are many bodybuilders out there who blame various things on their inability to get in shape, but one thing I have noticed with heavy insulin users, particularly those who are insulin resistant (often caused by high-dose GH and exo. insulin use), is that the musculature does begin to take on softer, less dense look over time.

This is due, at least in part, to increased intramuscular fat deposits, which is a typical symptom of insulin resistance. This increase in intramuscular fat can adversely effects one's appearance from a conditioning standpoint. The individual may be just as lean as they were before (same amount of sub-q fat), but his conditioning will appear to have suffered simply because his muscle aren't as hard and dense as they used to be.

So, while we can't necessarily know if Dorian is telling the truth, we do know that insulin does have the ability (especially when used in concert with high-dose GH) to cause this side effect. Combined with the fact that Dorian had pretty bad stomach distension that year (another characteristic symptom of insulin use), it is not too far outside the realm of believability to think that Dorian may be telling the truth, but who knows. While I tend to believe him (maybe that's just the fanboy in me), I have known more than once person who I thought was genuine, but who turned out to be a lying ass crook.

 

[devenidas]

Flex Wheeler said in a recent video in his comeback for the classic O..

" Dorian said if Flex wheeler trained as hard as I did and pushed as I did it would have been a different story".

The actual ACTUAL secret of Dorian he kept winning O after O in the best possible strongest lineups EVER stacked with African American gentlemen's who were touched by the bodybuilding gods was his Bruce lee work ethic and Shaolin monk devotion to practicing his craft.

That's what it was.


People can speculate all day long about drugs but Dorian lived in shitty Birmingham and got his shit from British pharmacies and what not. Nothing which flex wheeler could not get from US/Maxio etc .

If anyone think British were brewing some special drugs no we were not! Flex, Cormier, Dillet had all the access to igf, gh, insulin and pharma gear. I do not believe for one sec they did not and nobody can convince me on that either.


Dorian did have Leroy though screaming in his ears ...

"come on Mr Yates.. lets go now.. One fucking more!!"

Most hardcore training partner one can dream of having.

They call him Mr Nasty. Master of High Intensity.

yes the guy in black and white blood and guts video spotting Dorian.

He would travel specially to temple gym over an hour drive to see Dorian through his workout on his day off if he was not training or if he was not recovered. Just to make sure on things.

If anyone knows for sure what Dorian was pinning it was Leroy his training partner and close friend and according to him it was silly low compare to what crazy shit guys using nowadays.

Anybody seen Leroy train today?? he still trains with same nasty intensity to this day even though he is in his late 50s where you risking popping an eyeball out of socket. He preps Anth Bailes. Anyone seen the grainy hard slabs of muscle Anth carries literally bursting out of skin. The sort of look you only get by pounding some serious heavy slang iron.

MaxxMuscle gym up north is Temple Gym part 2.



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[Elvia1023]

People sometimes act like bodybuilders don't train hard these days and it's nonsense. I see most of the top guys in videos weekly training hard and heavy. There are harder workers and guys who relied upon genetics when it comes to training in every era. They also act like they don't diet as hard which could be true in some ways. But as alluded to above I think the higher doses of hgh and insulin these days coupled with bigger bodyweights and of course the bigger the better mentality plays a massive importance.

Training, diet and drugs change over time but there is only so far training and diet can get you. Human's haven't changed much in 3 decades. I bet the best legit natural bodybuilder isn't much different from the 90's to now. So the only element you have left is drugs. Of course diet comes into things as drugs can help the body facilitate more food so by bo means is it just drugs in their entirety. Drugs can also make people stronger so they can lift more weight in the gym.

Dorian had it and wasn't Mr O just because of training. Yes his training is what separated him from others. Training good and training great could be the difference between 3rd and 1st place. But Dorian still had it and he still took lot's of drugs. Whilst it's obvious he used much less than what many do these days from what I have heard there is definitely more to the story in regards to his intake.

 

[Dezzy]

People sometimes act like bodybuilders don't train hard these days and it's nonsense. I see most of the top guys in videos weekly training hard and heavy. There are harder workers and guys who relied upon genetics when it comes to training in every era. They also act like they don't diet as hard which could be true in some ways. But as alluded to above I think the higher doses of hgh and insulin these days coupled with bigger bodyweights and of course the bigger the better mentality plays a massive importance.

Training, diet and drugs change over time but there is only so far training and diet can get you. Human's haven't changed much in 3 decades. I bet the best legit natural bodybuilder isn't much different from the 90's to now. So the only element you have left is drugs. Of course diet comes into things as drugs can help the body facilitate more food so by bo means is it just drugs in their entirety. Drugs can also make people stronger so they can lift more weight in the gym.

Dorian had it and wasn't Mr O just because of training. Yes his training is what separated him from others. Training good and training great could be the difference between 3rd and 1st place. But Dorian still had it and he still took lot's of drugs. Whilst it's obvious he used much less than what many do these days from what I have heard there is definitely more to the story in regards to his intake.

I think there is a big difference in Lee Haney's prime and Dorian's prime. Something changed.

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[massnup]

That's PRECISELY why I think he's lying... when something works so well that it causes a drastic change in your physique (especially when you're already at the top like Dorian was), you just DON'T want people to know or at least give too much credit to it... human nature...

GH clearly was NOT the game changer, insulin indeed was... before 97 and certainly not in the 8-10 IU's range around workout only... lol...

EDIT: and btw, it's SOOOOO easy to blame your lack on conditioning on slin... everyone does it out of pure ignorance, so Dorian (who's a very smart man) just told people what they wanted to hear, cause 99% of bodybuilders are sincerely convinced slin will bloat them... when actually too much carbs will, NOT sln.

So whats your take on how he used the slin and how much per day?

 

[KillerStack]

That's PRECISELY why I think he's lying... when something works so well that it causes a drastic change in your physique (especially when you're already at the top like Dorian was), you just DON'T want people to know or at least give too much credit to it... human nature...

While I tend to believe him (maybe that's just the fanboy in me), I have known more than once person who I thought was genuine, but who turned out to be a lying ass crook.

Whilst it's obvious he used much less than what many do these days from what I have heard there is definitely more to the story in regards to his intake.

Dorian seems like such a cool and genuine person that I'd really like to believe him. But unfortunately, due to the nature of the issue at hand it's really hard to tell the whole story.

 

[devenidas]

I think there is a big difference in Lee Haney's prime and Dorian's prime. Something changed.

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Of course there is a big diff between Haney and Dorian as there was between Haney and Arnold. Of course bber took more shit and new stuff.

What I am saying is as Flex admitted himself in public that he did NOT work as hard as Dorian in all aspects of bbing. If Dorian did insulin well so did guys in Golds Venice mecca sooner or later but still nobody succeeded in toppling Dorian.

Dorian had no access to some special drugs over Venice guys didnt.

So Dorian was the first Olympian ever who got told by his British general practitioner that hey listen you know what u can use insulin a storing hormone to get even bigger. come on guys.

Dorian got six Sandows on three thing in the following order..

1) Genetics
2) His work ethic and discipline to training and adherence to diet.
3) Drugs

Drugs were a level playing field overall

Why did not cormier, flex, Levrone ended his reign once the so called secret "insulin" was out.

Many of them fucking cheated on diets. Did not care at times. ya whatever. Milos has said it few times too. Priest said Dillet was lazy enough that would skip his shots and didnt bother doing them while prepping !

Dorian on the other hand was not a gram
here or there. Regimented is a mild term to describe him.


Milos was on the scene back then and he knew the insulin game more then anyone. He even prepped few guys. Do we really think Milos kept it a secret and Venice guys did not get a drift of it. really ??

Venice guys most likely took more insulin and other shit what not to get Dorian sooner ot later but do you know what pinning drugs in you is easy part and they could surpass him in that dept.

But did they surpass Dorian in the gym and the food table ??

I don't think so and that in totality is the difference between

a Gold > Silver> Bronze medal.

Dorian knew what structure flex, cormier or Levrone had. He was no fool. He knew if they came in 110 percent any one of them could snatch the title off him easily. Dorian was not pretty but he bought brutal mass and granite conditioning never seen before by suffering beyond what his contemporaries could even comprehend!

We all know Cormier and his hard parting scene, just a example

Did anyone see Dorian partying and getting hammered with drugs and alcohol ??

Show me

While Cormier, Martinez were snorting some coke from a hookers tits Dorian and Leroy were in the stuffy basement in England doing one fucking more set on that barbell row or incline press.



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[thethinker48]

Of course there is a big diff between Haney and Dorian as there was between Haney and Arnold. Of course bber took more shit and new stuff.

What I am saying is as Flex admitted himself in public that he did NOT work as hard as Dorian in all aspects of bbing. If Dorian did insulin well so did guys in Golds Venice mecca sooner or later but still nobody succeeded in toppling Dorian.

Dorian had no access to some special drugs over Venice guys didnt.

So Dorian was the first Olympian ever who got told by his British general practitioner that hey listen you know what u can use insulin a storing hormone to get even bigger. come on guys.

Dorian got six Sandows on three thing in the following order..

1) Genetics
2) His work ethic and discipline to training and adherence to diet.
3) Drugs

Drugs were a level playing field overall

Why did not cormier, flex, Levrone ended his reign once the so called secret "insulin" was out.

Many of them fucking cheated on diets. Did not care at times. ya whatever. Milos has said it few times too. Priest said Dillet was lazy enough that would skip his shots and didnt bother doing them while prepping !

Dorian on the other hand was not a gram
here or there. Regimented is a mild term to describe him.


Milos was on the scene back then and he knew the insulin game more then anyone. He even prepped few guys. Do we really think Milos kept it a secret and Venice guys did not get a drift of it. really ??

Venice guys most likely took more insulin and other shit what not to get Dorian sooner ot later but do you know what pinning drugs in you is easy part and they could surpass him in that dept.

But did they surpass Dorian in the gym and the food table ??

I don't think so and that in totality is the difference between

a Gold > Silver> Bronze medal.

Dorian knew what structure flex, cormier or Levrone had. He was no fool. He knew if they came in 110 percent any one of them could snatch the title off him easily. Dorian was not pretty but he bought brutal mass and granite conditioning never seen before by suffering beyond what his contemporaries could even comprehend!

We all know Cormier and his hard parting scene, just a example

Did anyone see Dorian partying and getting hammered with drugs and alcohol ??

Show me

While Cormier, Martinez were snorting some coke from a hookers tits Dorian and Leroy were in the stuffy basement in England doing one fucking more set on that barbell row or incline press.



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100% on point!

There are very few people with the mentality and drive like Dorian Yates in this world.

His conditioning boiled down to suffering. Dorian dieted down to a level where his feet started hurting from the lack of fatty deposits in his soles. That kind of mentality is rare these days. For this guy, bodybuilding was life. There were no "okay" workouts or bad weeks; every day, every week, every year was progression. And that also applies to muscle growth. Progression slowly both food wise, drug wise, poundages lifted wise, and ability to recover wise.

People talk about the standard going down now...a ton of guys work really hard today. But it is almost unfair to compare them to what Dorian was doing in England.

"People say don't put all your eggs in one basket; well I only had 1 egg and 1 basket" ~ Dorian Yates

People have families (Dorian got divorced...why do u think), careers, kids, responsibilities, and an awareness that life has more to offer as well. In his tunnel vision prime, I doubt Dorian gave a shit about any of that. Healthy? No, but that's what it takes to push new boundaries in anything.



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[KillerStack]

Did you guys see this?

http://youtu.be/6d-Cx9V7BvE

 

[Elvia1023]

Dev I don't think a single person is disageeing with you on this entire thread. Everything you wrote is spot on. Dorian had everything and he simply worked harder than guys who may have beat him if going on solely genetics. Dorian is one of my fav bb's of all time. I have pretty much watched all the videos on him and what others have said about him including the new one posted above. He made everyone work harder as that's all they could if the hoped to ever beat him. I do have a mate who snorted loads of coke with him but that was after his reign. But that sort of behaviour can tell you something.

 

[devenidas]

Dev I don't think a single person is disageeing with you on this entire thread. Everything you wrote is spot on. Dorian had everything and he simply worked harder than guys who may have beat him if going on solely genetics. Dorian is one of my fav bb's of all time. I have pretty much watched all the videos on him and what others have said about him including the new one posted above. He made everyone work harder as that's all they could if the hoped to ever beat him. I do have a mate who snorted loads of coke with him but that was after his reign. But that sort of behaviour can tell you something.

ya true mate I think after he retired he relaxed and tried a good few things. Explored a lot of good stuf lol

He went through a identify crisis too after retiring for a bit but he got hold of himself. Good for him. He seems happy, content and enjoying his life after retiring from the stage.

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[devenidas]

Latest pic from his IG today..

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