whats a more potent fat burner? hgh or hgh frag?

[hansen215]

started taking hgh blue tops 3 ius a day to help heal from acl surgery. on my 4th kit now and feel great! def getting leaner but def burning a hole in my pocket too! now that im better from surgery the only thing i want to do now from my hgh usage is the fat burning. is 1 gram of hgh fragment a stronger fat burner than 3iu's of hgh blues? on top of that they are wayyy cheaper. and help would be greatly appreciated.

 

[hansen215]

anybody?

 

[Quad-smack]

Not being an a-hole, but - if cost is a concern for you, then consider a clean diet and cardio...

 

[T-man]

^^^ Amen...

If cost is not a concern, I liked running frags on top of my GH.

 

[disgraziato]

started taking hgh blue tops 3 ius a day to help heal from acl surgery. on my 4th kit now and feel great! def getting leaner but def burning a hole in my pocket too! now that im better from surgery the only thing i want to do now from my hgh usage is the fat burning. is 1 gram of hgh fragment a stronger fat burner than 3iu's of hgh blues? on top of that they are wayyy cheaper. and help would be greatly appreciated.

You mean 1 mg of frag I assume. I've tried it in the past with no results at 400mcg a day...but I've since learned that much higher doses may be required to see a difference, like double to triple that amount.... 3iu a day of gh would probably do you best.

 

[hansen215]

yea i meant 1 mg of frag, im extremely happy with the blues im running but if i can get the same/more fat burning effects while saving $ by using frag then thats what im gonna do but i dont want less effects. i started using blues to heal from injury and now stil running for leaning out. all i want out of gh is fat burning, if frag is better for that then ill make the switch, if not then ill stick to blues.

 

[paullyd99]

Try running some CJC with your GH.

Know a guy on another board that ran 5iu's of GH and 2mgs of CJC per week and said the "fat melted off". He also did a solid hour of cardio a day and threw in a little test and T3, but in the end I believe he shaved off over 30lbs in less than 2 months.

 

[ericraven2003]

GH frag is wasted of money in my opinon.

 

[chris250]

I dont know a whole lot about HGH frag, but using GHRP and CJC you will be buring fat at a faster rate, and building muscle to...HGH is great, and I love it during precontest time, but GHRP/CJC combo is great for offseason growth and staying leaner...probably cheaper to...(honestly I try not to think about how much money I spend on supplements...)

 

[lexed]

GH frag is wasted of money in my opinon.

How so?

 

[DatBtrue]

I hate to say this but I am going to because it fucks up my research.

Clinical grade CJC-1295, clinical grade mod GRF(1-29) and clinical grade GHRPs that are fresh are far far superior to low purity stale peptides that most people use.

If people really understood that non-pulsatile GH patterned release gives them a feminized physiological GH release profile which has many consequences such as a reduction in the liver enzymes that metabolize male hormones and an increase in the female liver enzymes which metabolize female hormones I think they would ask "so what?"

But if I told them that this meant that there was an increase in the female enzymes that metabolize testosterone into estradiol I think they might still say "so what?".

But if I told them "but you are a man and have a lot of test conversion going on" and that is why your nipples are puffy I think they might say hmmmmmm...

If I got into the nitty gritty and told them pulsation leads to more Stat5b activity which is responsible for growth... what would they say?

I don't think they would know what to say...

...I think they spent too much time using mediocre peptides. I tried to explain this to Sam when he was alive but he just wouldn't listen...

So I get a little perturbed when I see people report their results based on mediocre peptides because if you dose clinical grade CJC-1295 or mod GRF(1-29) and either GHRP-6, GHRP-2 or Hexarelin at bodybuilding levels you grow (on the right protocol)

Simple as that. Synthetic GH IMHO is an adjunct or an add on to a natural pulse and that is it.

None of this has anything to do with the original question. What a dick... just post on topic or get out of the thread. OKay.

GH Frag has some side effects. I listed them somewhere in my thread. If you don't experience these sides then your Frag is not good. If you do experience these sides it likely is good and it will work at the right dose.

Big Bapper loved Frag and there are others that have used it successfully as well.

I know a lot of people got nothing out of it but again unless they felt those side effects then the fault is in the product masquerading as GH Frag 176-191.

The best on topic answers are (in no particular order) from:

Quad-smack
T-man
disgraziato
paullyd99
ericraven2003
chris250
lexed
hansen215

Hansen... if you want to lose fat you use GH or frag when insulin is quiet and then go be active and utilize that liberated fatty acid. Don't just administer the peptide and expect it to do anything more then redeposit fat... if you sit on you butt and induce insulin rise.

 

[beggar]

Ok Dat. Thats just not nice. Why do my peptides have to be stale???? And what makes clinical grade peptides clinical? I tried gh frag at 200 micro grams a day for 2 weeks. I didn't get any side effects. I must have missread the study because I thought you were not supposed to have the same side effects as regular gh

The Beggar

 

[DatBtrue]

Ok Dat. Thats just not nice. Why do my peptides have to be stale????

Stale means that they are made and stored improperly in China. They are never sent from China with a cold pack. If they get stuck in customs then all of this is prolonged. A retailer does not have a lab freezer and may not even freeze the peptides. Sam... I hate to keep using him... Sam argued with me that freezing was not needed so he stored his at room temp. Then they don't get sold right away. They may sit for many more months. Then they are sent improperly to the end user who also may store and not use for months. All of that could mean the peptide you use today was made a year ago.

And what makes clinical grade peptides clinical?

The studies define it as that which has been approved for study in humans. It is the highest purity attainable. Usually that is 99%... but for some difficult peptides 96% is acceptable.

I tried gh frag at 200 micro grams a day for 2 weeks. I didn't get any side effects. I must have missread the study because I thought you were not supposed to have the same side effects as regular gh

The Beggar

From a couple of posts in my thread:

Taken from:

​

Growth hormone isoforms, segments/fragments: Does a link exist with multifunctionality?, Elio F. De Palo, Clinica Chimica Acta 364 (2006) 77 – 81


GH177 – 191 fragment, as previously partly described, is responsible for the GH lipolytic/anti-lipogenic action. Because of this unique activity, GH177 – 191 was subsequently investigated as a potential pharmacologic agent for treating human obesity. To accomplish this goal, biochemical and physiological studies were performed using synthetic GH177 – 191 (i.e., AOD9401) in vitro and in vivo.

The action of GH177 – 191 appeared to proceed from interaction with a receptor different from GHR, although the mechanism producing diacyl–glycerol (DAG) was stimulated in adipocytes similar to intact GH. AOD9401 demonstrated a direct action on adipose tissue. The lipolytic effect was mediated by an increase in hormone-sensitive lipase (HSL) activity. The anti-lipogenic effect was caused, however, by significant reduction in acetyl-CoA carboxylase activity [25,26]. This effect was found to be dose dependent.

This GH177 – 191 molecule was stable in aqueous buffered solution with half-lives of 50 and 170 min when enzymatic digestion with pepsin and trypsin was performed, respectively [27].

The use of the GH177 – 191 synthetic fragment for treating human obesity produced various undesirable side effects such as glucose intolerance, insulin resistance, sodium retention resulting in hypertension and edema. The C-terminal region of the GH177 – 191 fragment appears to be the metabolic domain specifically responsible for the lipolytic/antilipogenic activity of intact GH. In fact, the potential lipolytic action of this peptide has been measured [25].

References:

[25] Ng FM, Jiang WJ, Gianello R, Pitt S, Roupas P. Molecular and cellular actions of a structural domain of human growth hormone (AOD9401) on lipid metabolism in Zucker fatty rats. J Mol Endocrinol 2000; 25:287– 98.

[26] Ng FM, Sun J, Sharma L, Libinaka R, Jiang WJ, Gianello R. Metabolic studies of a synthetic lipolytic domain (AOD9604) of human growth hormone. Horm Res 2000;53:274–8.

[27] Rowlinson SW, Waters MJ, Lewis UJ, Barnard R. Human growth hormone fragments 1– 43 and 44–191: in vitro somatogenic activity and receptor binding characteristics in human and nonprimate systems. Endocrinology 1996;137:265– 73.​

​

Dat, given the relatively "spotty" results with the frag as anecdotally reported across multiple forums, which of these do you think is the most likely cause?

• Poor quality of peptide (including storage/shipping)
• Similar to low dosed hGH, where unless your levels are unnaturally low, it doesn't provide significant difference
• GH levels in users
• Some other chemical interaction

or if you have other possibilities, i'm interested.

• The fact much of it is 177-191 instead of 176-191.
• Dose needs to be higher and more frequent (i.e. every 1 to 2 hours)
• Fragility of peptide/ poor shipping
• Adsorption (Peptide and proteins have a tendency to adsorb to surfaces, and this can pose a significant problem in their delivery. ...most biotechnology- derived proteins are very potent, so doses are very low. Thus, even small amounts of adsorption may lead to a significant loss of drug. *
• Probably better to combine it with some GH
• Rats (highly effective) are different then humans (???)
• This fragment doesn't naturally occur in humans

The fact that most users across the boards do not report the side-effects of "glucose intolerance, insulin resistance, sodium retention resulting in hypertension and edema" tells me that the quality of their peptide is poor BECAUSE these are side-effects that DO show up in clinical trials.

* - Page 166 - 167 Therapeutic Peptides and Proteins Formulation, Processing, and Delivery Systems 2nd edition, Ajay K. Banga, Ph.D., CRC Press 2006

 

[T-man]

I did not know that RP stored Peps at room temperature. That is a huge faux paux. I'm actually going to be picking up a personal lab freezer to store my stuff in. I found a source for them in the states; slightly used in perfect condition for 500 to 1000 dollars which is a great long-term investment IMO. Keeping peptides dry and as cold as possible is key.

I had no success running frags alone several years ago, but now when I run them on top of my secretagogues I can see the effects, so I would recommend GH + Frags or CJC/GHRP + frags for positive benefits.

However as Dat has stated, they are not a magic bullet. I do fasted cardio and keep my diet in check as well.

 

[ericraven2003]

How so?

I saw no results off it, even from moderately high doses. If you have to go real high dose to see results , then the pricing will be no different then GH.

 

[beggar]

After reading Dats post regarding stale peptides. I went to the website of the china provider that I have been using to get my peptides.

They show their purity as a minimum of 98 percent on the peptides I have been using. I wonder if that one percent less than 99 makes a big difference especially since I receive my product at room temperature with no cold pack. What is one to do?

The American supplier prices are high and there is no mention of purity. I stopped using the frag because it is hard to tell what is working and what isn't when you are using everything at once.




The Beggar

 

[RV63T]

so most of the sponsors here are getiing from china. then why waist money on stale peptids find the source in china is what i get from this.

 

[DatBtrue]

However as Dat has stated, they are not a magic bullet. I do fasted cardio and keep my diet in check as well.

And that is how you do it. I was in a gym I rarely go to the other day and a guy came up to me and told me I looked great. He said I must have lost 10 kilos

...I told him it was more like 20 kilos (about 45 pounds). I didn't tell him I put the muscle/fat on so I could do experiments w/ fatloss. I just told him I took 2 pounds of fat off a week for half a year and since then I have put on 10 pounds of muscle with no fat.

He kept asking how... I told him keep insulin quiet, be active, abbreviated but heavy workouts to keep muscle... "what about carbs?" Ezekiel bread.. "whats that"? So I told him simple things and he just tuned out...

... he wanted the magic bullet. He forgot that he came up to me in that same gym 2 years before asking me in earnest how to lose fat. I told him then... but two years have gone buy and he hasn't changed a god damn thing.

He just does the bench press. Fat guys love the bench press...

There is no magic bullet...and everyone who has never dieted down to contest shape always under-estimates how much fat has to be lost to have a tight semi-peeled looked.

 

[DatBtrue]

After reading Dats post regarding stale peptides. I went to the website of the china provider that I have been using to get my peptides.

They show their purity as a minimum of 98 percent on the peptides I have been using. I wonder if that one percent less than 99 makes a big difference especially since I receive my product at room temperature with no cold pack. What is one to do?

The American supplier prices are high and there is no mention of purity. I stopped using the frag because it is hard to tell what is working and what isn't when you are using everything at once.

There is no difference in effect between 96, 97, 98, 99 percent purity. IF that is what they truly have.

The problem is when you have people sell 60% or 80% purity.

 

[dragonfire101]

he use of the GH177 – 191 synthetic fragment for treating human obesity produced various undesirable side effects such as glucose intolerance, insulin resistance, sodium retention resulting in hypertension and edema.

Who would want to use it if it does that, but I understand this is the 177 version, but now with real 176 version would sides be the same