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Whats causing my high ALT/AST Numbers?

biggTdogg

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Got blood work done about a week ago and my AST-99 and ALT-174.

I haven't taken any orals in over 6 months and even then it was just some real low dose D-bol (20-30mg ED). I did compete in July so from May to July I was running test,tren,masteron,clen, hgh, and a little T3. However, that was 2 months ago and all I've been on since is 300mg/week of test, 4iu GH, and some Kre-Alkylin. Also, I've been taking Liv52 ED for at least 3-4 months.

I talked to my Doc and he says that any anabolics can cause elevated liver enzymes even injectables, but that seems to contradict everything I've always heard. He also says that liver cleanses are a waste of money.

I'm gonna try synthergine anyways and re-test in 6 weeks. Just really confused/concerned about what is causing this elevation.

Any thoughts?
 

laduem88

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those numbers are very high for not having ran anything heavy for 2 months...never tried synthergine but id def. get some
 

b-boy

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Got blood work done about a week ago and my AST-99 and ALT-174.

I haven't taken any orals in over 6 months and even then it was just some real low dose D-bol (20-30mg ED). I did compete in July so from May to July I was running test,tren,masteron,clen, hgh, and a little T3. However, that was 2 months ago and all I've been on since is 300mg/week of test, 4iu GH, and some Kre-Alkylin. Also, I've been taking Liv52 ED for at least 3-4 months.

I talked to my Doc and he says that any anabolics can cause elevated liver enzymes even injectables, but that seems to contradict everything I've always heard. He also says that liver cleanses are a waste of money.

I'm gonna try synthergine anyways and re-test in 6 weeks. Just really confused/concerned about what is causing this elevation.

Any thoughts?
take two weeks off completely from the gym then go and get re-tested! I'll bill you later :p
 

Emery

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I've read recently that heavy training can cause elevations in certain liver enzymes, I think I came across that on here... Of course, could be bro-science as well but I think the poster actually had attached a relevant study as well.

And yes, the injectables still get processed by the liver, everything that ends up in the blood stream gets processed by the liver. Kre-alk, pizza, fats, soda, all the bullshit we put in our bodies... SO, 300mg a week can affect the liver! Thats a hell of a lot more test than a normal male produces and it's a synthetic version!
 

biggTdogg

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take two weeks off completely from the gym then go and get re-tested! I'll bill you later :p

So if I do that and the tests come back normal, does that mean the anabolics aren't overly stressing my liver?

Sounds like maybe it's good practice to always take some time off before getting blood work done.
 

laduem88

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working out does increase the levels but not to the extent that his are at
 

biggTdogg

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working out does increase the levels but not to the extent that his are at

That's the same thing my doc said. Any chance it could still be elevated from the Tren even 2 months later? Or am I just really sensitive to any form of AAS?
 

Emery

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Do you drink any alcohol? Do you use OTC meds like tylenol? Both of these can tax the liver, in addition to AAS it will be even worse.
 

biggTdogg

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Do you drink any alcohol? Do you use OTC meds like tylenol? Both of these can tax the liver, in addition to AAS it will be even worse.

I probably drink alcohol about 6 times a year max. I've never really been a big drinker. I do take Ibuprofen off and on, but not in excess. :confused:

????????
 

Skip

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Taking niacin to increase your HDL count? Usually, over 1g and you will affect your liver enzymes enough to be noticed. If someone already said this, I was too lazy to read all of the responses. :)

Milk thistle works very, very well for me, anyway. Even during a prep my liver values are actually only slightly out of the norm.

Skip
 

Shelby

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What was your GGT?
 

b-boy

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I've read recently that heavy training can cause elevations in certain liver enzymes, I think I came across that on here... Of course, could be bro-science as well but I think the poster actually had attached a relevant study as well.

And yes, the injectables still get processed by the liver, everything that ends up in the blood stream gets processed by the liver. Kre-alk, pizza, fats, soda, all the bullshit we put in our bodies... SO, 300mg a week can affect the liver! Thats a hell of a lot more test than a normal male produces and it's a synthetic version!
hmm my doc told me and even told me to look it up which i did that injectable steroids seem to have little adverse effect on the liver.
 

biggTdogg

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What was your GGT?

Not sure if he tested for that. What is it? My Urea Nitrogen (BUN) was slightly off at 25mg/dL. Normal is between 6-20.

Also, I haven't been taking any niacin or milk thistle. Just those Liv52 pills, which I read were supposed to be better than just milk thistle.

I have been using 12.5mcg ED of aromisin, which Phil recommended. Any chance its that?
 

Rex Feral

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I probably drink alcohol about 6 times a year max. I've never really been a big drinker. I do take Ibuprofen off and on, but not in excess. :confused:

????????[/QUOTE

The first thing you want to rule out is muscle damage or something that you are taking. So quit taking everything now and lay off training prior to the test as Bboy suggested. I agree that your enzymes are a bit high to attribute to exercise, but it has to be ruled out nonetheless. Personally I would keep the T and GH in as they are very highly unlikely to be the culprit but that's up to you. Drop the creatine and the LIV-52. Hopefully it resolves and that will be the end of it. So don't stress about it too much, it doesn't necessarily mean anything. But it should definitely be investigated based upon your report. I will give you the diagnostic progression but don't freak out or let any of it concern you more. Its purely informational to answer your question about possible causes. If your doctor did his job he should have covered all of this anyway.

Medical history? (accutane for zits as a teen, previous labs, etc)

Family history? (hemochromatosis, liver disease, etc)

How long before the test did you exercise? How intense relative to what you normally do?

Did you list all medications and supplements you are taking? No holding out.

Risk factors for hepatitis? (sharing a straw snorting coke, blood transfusion prior to 1992, health care worker, needles, etc)

Serum iron value? Ferritin? (rule out hemochromatosis)

If it is not resolved @ re-draw, your next step is a hepatitis antibody screen to see if you have ever been exposed to viral hepatitis. Its a relatively cheap test and it must be ruled out.

Once hepatitis is ruled out your next step is an ultrasound to determine if there are any anatomical causes that may be the culprit (biliary blockage, fatty liver, etc).

If all of that fails to procure a diagnosis your last resort is a liver biopsy, which is considered definitive.

There are a few other blood tests, such as ANA to rule out autoimmune causes, but we are starting to get pretty far out there in terms of probability so I'll stop here.

With alcohol we typically see higher AST vs. ALT, yours is exactly the opposite which is typical of almost all other etiologies except alcohol and cirrhosis. So I would have pretty much ruled out alcohol just based upon your labs.

Good luck to you. Most likely scenario is that it will resolve and you will never know exactly what the cause was. You want to get serial liver enzyme tests obviously to make sure it does not recur or continue to be elevated.

Rex.

This answer is not intended as and does not substitute for medical advice - the information presented is for patient education only. Please see your personal physician for further evaluation of your individual case.
 

maldorf

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What was your GGT?

I was going to say that too. Ive read that it is one enzyme that is not released by muscle tissue when injured and that it is more specific to liver. Most docs dont test it though. I had high liver enzymes once and had my GGT tested and it was normal. Heavy lifting I am convinced can lead to liver panels being high.
 

Mega Squat

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I was going to say that too. Ive read that it is one enzyme that is not released by muscle tissue when injured and that it is more specific to liver. Most docs dont test it though. I had high liver enzymes once and had my GGT tested and it was normal. Heavy lifting I am convinced can lead to liver panels being high.

same thing happened to me. My numbers were a tad lower than what was listed, and was slightly freaking out because I wasn't on anything and didn't run anything for about 2-3 months, besides 250mgs of test. My old doctor was making a big deal about, asking if I was popping pain pills or an alcoholic lol(I don't drink or do drugs). I researched, then got a second opinion from a doctor who actually trains at my gym. My GGT was around 21 I believe and he said that was what to look for in weight lifters and even his were high and he was natural and doesn't drink/do drugs.
 

Wonton

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had issues as well..Doc wanted to biopsy me..Nah..Told him lets give it more time.

Personally think it was creatine, too much protein, body burning too much fat , HGH or cheap protein I was taking.

But those are all things I had control over. So just got rid of all of them..Levels went down.

THey monitored me for over a year btw - because they were so high.
 

biggTdogg

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Ok, so my I'm gonna try what was suggested and drop all my supps and stop exercising for about 2 weeks prior to my test. But I'll keep running some low dose test and GH, and just see how the numbers come out. That way if they come back lower then I should be okay to keep going, right? Otherwise I may have to stop everything, which I really don't wanna do.

I did take a fair amount of accutane when I was younger. (My doc never asked about that) Has that been shown to effect liver enzymes later in life?
 

Rex Feral

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Ok, so my I'm gonna try what was suggested and drop all my supps and stop exercising for about 2 weeks prior to my test. But I'll keep running some low dose test and GH, and just see how the numbers come out. That way if they come back lower then I should be okay to keep going, right? Otherwise I may have to stop everything, which I really don't wanna do.

I did take a fair amount of accutane when I was younger. (My doc never asked about that) Has that been shown to effect liver enzymes later in life?

Well, that question is not as easy to answer as you think it might be. The implication is, yes. From what physicians and people in the pharmaceutical industry tell me, this is largely bullshit. Or at the least very uncommon. Assuming you were monitored as you should have been while on the drug and that significant indicators (such as liver enzymes) were not adversely affected at the time. If you were not monitored correctly and continued to use the drug, depending on dose and length obviously, then it is definitely plausible that it could cause permanent damage. I would say the likelihood that this is your problem is very low. I believe something like 15-20% of subjects were withdrawn due to liver enzyme elevation in trials, you could look it up easily. Which is why this is mostly bullshit I think, but it has happened and it is well documented. I have seen only one case personally. Male, with autoimmune hepatitis caused by accutane. I believe he was on for 6 months and it was immediately after. Its has been implicated in fatty liver disease and cirrhosis as well.

Roche is facing multiple class action lawsuits over Accutane. I haven't done it, but I am sure if you Google "accutane liver lawsuit" or similar, you will be bombarded with attorneys. For this reason if I were you I would be very careful about what gets into your medical records. You never know, and you don't want your lifestyle choices to compromise you later. I do believe it did legitimately happen to some people and these people will be paid handsomely. Probably as many or more bullshit claims as legit ones like most class action, but some probably legit nonetheless.

On GGT. I have not seen a chem panel in a long time that did not include GGT. I see many people saying "my doctor does not test for that" and I wonder if you are just missing it. I suppose people are still running chem 12 panels which is completely stupid. Be sure to get at least a chem 20 or chem 22 panel if you are going to bother to have blood work. To say that most docs don't test GGT is just not true. We primarily use GGT to detect alcohol use. Even small amounts of alcohol can spike GGT. It isn't clear whether ETOH causes the liver to produce GGT in greater amounts or if the elevation is caused by actual damage. It is also useful in athletes. Last year I had three patients on investigational drug who decided to run the L.A. Marathon. Needless to say I had a lot of explaining to do for documentation to the FDA when their labs came back the next week. Especially since they were not what I would call highly conditioned athletes. CKs as high as 40k, liver enzymes spikes 2-3 x ULN. We have to document that this is not due to the experimental drug. Showing that all of the CKs are from skeletal muscle and that GGT has not increased is how we do this.

Rex.
 
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