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Whats the real story with gear?

This thread makes me fell better about my lack of weight gain from my current cycle. I do not bloat up at all even when on a shitload of test and dbol. If anything dbol makes me look leaner. My body just doesn't retain water on these compounds like most ppl do. So when I hear about ppl gaining 20+ pounds on a 12 week cycle I'm always wondering how the fuck they do it. Must be mostly water.

I started out at 145 and got to 185 naturally. From 185 to 215 where I'm currently at his been a loooong process even with gear. But at least because I'm an extreme ecto when I do gain weight it's mostly lean growth
 
if you put on 20lbs in a cycle and bodyfat stayed the same. it may not be all muscle but lbm is lbm, right?
 
Im 41, 6ft, 240,not lean but not fat. Ive put on about 20 pounds of solid gains, but its been after a good 3 to 4 years and several cycles. At this point, I can do a Tren/Test cycle, get hard as fuck, and only gain 10 pounds if im lucky, then piss most of it off when Im done with the cycle. Im sure that Ive surpassed my bodys natural limitations
 
So..... what I gather to be the norm is that besides your first cycle, subsiquent cycles tend to lead to much lesser gains regardless of dosage increase. Would it be fair to say that on average that a person would more truthfuly only gain maybe 10 lbs of lbm per year while running gear?

I know there are many variables in the mix, but that must be pretty close or else we would have a lot more huge monsters out there and less folks running gh and slin because it wouldnt really be neccessary.

On the other hand... speaking for myself I have noticed that strength gains are a different story for me. I seem to keep most all my strength. Even when it goes down because of lifting very light, it comes back within 2 weeks or so when back to heavier weights.

But from a pure lbm gaining aspect....... im not so sure that aas are worth the potential risks and cost and hassle. I say that mostly because Ive gotten up to the multiple gram area where most of the health issues are more likely to arise.

Lets hear some more from folks who use aas only and nothing else. From what I gather Im at the point where most turn to hgh mixed with aas to get the impressive gains. Not that I personaly need gains like that.... but more referring to the fact that there is an aas plateau and its a lot closer than most think.
 
So..... what I gather to be the norm is that besides your first cycle, subsiquent cycles tend to lead to much lesser gains regardless of dosage increase. Would it be fair to say that on average that a person would more truthfuly only gain maybe 10 lbs of lbm per year while running gear?

I know there are many variables in the mix, but that must be pretty close or else we would have a lot more huge monsters out there and less folks running gh and slin because it wouldnt really be neccessary.

On the other hand... speaking for myself I have noticed that strength gains are a different story for me. I seem to keep most all my strength. Even when it goes down because of lifting very light, it comes back within 2 weeks or so when back to heavier weights.

But from a pure lbm gaining aspect....... im not so sure that aas are worth the potential risks and cost and hassle. I say that mostly because Ive gotten up to the multiple gram area where most of the health issues are more likely to arise.

Lets hear some more from folks who use aas only and nothing else. From what I gather Im at the point where most turn to hgh mixed with aas to get the impressive gains. Not that I personaly need gains like that.... but more referring to the fact that there is an aas plateau and its a lot closer than most think.

Well that can either be quite low OR quite high mate, like you said there's many variables that come into play, 10 lbs of lbm a natural in his first 1-3 years of training could easily hit that number naturally. So a natty that was somewhat in his noob years of lifting and aided with AAS could possibly.... gain I would say 30-40 lbs in a year at first , depending on what he used and how much . For someone like Phil Heath though 10 lbs of LBM is a pretty big deal. So it comes down to how new you are to lifting, how new you are to AAS, and just what you have run in the past or are willing to run.

Here's some food for thought this is what NATURALS are capable of, so you can only imagine with aas. During the first six months of weight training, one might see a muscle gain of 1.5-2 lbs per month; that sweet newbie magic, where you gain muscle at a rapid rate. It's not uncommon to see that muscle gain accompanied by fat loss.

After six months and through the second year, you might see muscle gain of 1 lbs per month. You're able to increase weights linearly in the gym and everything is still pretty awesome.

Things slows down significantly in the third year, to the tune of about 0.5 lbs muscle gain per month.

In the 4-5th year of training, progress is slow. 1 lb of muscle every 4th month.

5-10th year, 1 lb per year.

If people are only gaining 10 lbs of lbm a year and they aren't too past there genetic limit then something is way off and aas probably aren't the ones that need to be focused on, once you put your focus on why the AAS are not working then that person will definitely be growing way more optimally with AAS in the mix. Also by "too past there genetic limit" I'm talking somewhere in the range of 15-20 lbs of lbm over that limit, then the 10 lbs per year will come into play a bit more.
 
Last edited:
10lbs of dry tissue in a year would be a dream come true.
 
10lbs of dry tissue in a year would be a dream come true.

After first few years training this is a realistic goal if training, diet and super supps are spot on. 10 lb of muscle makes you look a lot different. After 4 years or so even 5lb a year gets tough. Again 5lb pure muscle on an already impressive frame is a lot. Scale weight means very little in bodybuilding. It's all about the lean mass /stage weight

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2
 
After first few years training this is a realistic goal if training, diet and super supps are spot on. 10 lb of muscle makes you look a lot different. After 4 years or so even 5lb a year gets tough. Again 5lb pure muscle on an already impressive frame is a lot. Scale weight means very little in bodybuilding. It's all about the lean mass /stage weight

There's only 3 times you pack on loads of muscle at a fast rate. When you start lifting, first cycle, first slin run




Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2
 
Last edited:
Well that can either be quite low OR quite high mate, like you said there's many variables that come into play, 10 lbs of lbm a natural in his first 1-3 years of training could easily hit that number naturally. So a natty that was somewhat in his noob years of lifting and aided with AAS could possibly.... gain I would say 30-40 lbs in a year at first , depending on what he used and how much . For someone like Phil Heath though 10 lbs of LBM is a pretty big deal. So it comes down to how new you are to lifting, how new you are to AAS, and just what you have run in the past or are willing to run.

Here's some food for thought this is what NATURALS are capable of, so you can only imagine with aas. During the first six months of weight training, one might see a muscle gain of 1.5-2 lbs per month; that sweet newbie magic, where you gain muscle at a rapid rate. It's not uncommon to see that muscle gain accompanied by fat loss.

After six months and through the second year, you might see muscle gain of 1 lbs per month. You're able to increase weights linearly in the gym and everything is still pretty awesome.

Things slows down significantly in the third year, to the tune of about 0.5 lbs muscle gain per month.

In the 4-5th year of training, progress is slow. 1 lb of muscle every 4th month.

5-10th year, 1 lb per year.

If people are only gaining 10 lbs of lbm a year and they aren't too past there genetic limit then something is way off and aas probably aren't the ones that need to be focused on, once you put your focus on why the AAS are not working then that person will definitely be growing way more optimally with AAS in the mix. Also by "too past there genetic limit" I'm talking somewhere in the range of 15-20 lbs of lbm over that limit, then the 10 lbs per year will come into play a bit more.

Well that certainly makes sense. I wonder then.... perhaps if the reason that my gains came rather quickly... and then stalled at the end of the first year were because of muscle memory? I got back to the biggest I ever was... and the strongest within the first year of training after being off for 10 yrs. Even though im now 46 and no spring chicken. AAs definately had a role in doing that so quickly im sure.

Ive always been an easy gainer and have enjoyed that through the years. So now being stuck as far as growth goes (On AAs) seems impossible. I guess I will have to re-examine my diet and routine and perhaps find the answers there. I am religious with my training.. never miss a work out. I try to never overtrain. And I eat quite a bit. My diet is not as clean as it should be but I get what I thought was adequate protein in. But rarely over 250 grams.

I guess time will tell. Maybe a variance of compounds will also help me continue growing. I very much appreciate everyone sharing their experience!
 
So..... what I gather to be the norm is that besides your first cycle, subsiquent cycles tend to lead to much lesser gains regardless of dosage increase. Would it be fair to say that on average that a person would more truthfuly only gain maybe 10 lbs of lbm per year while running gear?

I know there are many variables in the mix, but that must be pretty close or else we would have a lot more huge monsters out there and less folks running gh and slin because it wouldnt really be neccessary.

On the other hand... speaking for myself I have noticed that strength gains are a different story for me. I seem to keep most all my strength. Even when it goes down because of lifting very light, it comes back within 2 weeks or so when back to heavier weights.

But from a pure lbm gaining aspect....... im not so sure that aas are worth the potential risks and cost and hassle. I say that mostly because Ive gotten up to the multiple gram area where most of the health issues are more likely to arise.

Lets hear some more from folks who use aas only and nothing else. From what I gather Im at the point where most turn to hgh mixed with aas to get the impressive gains. Not that I personaly need gains like that.... but more referring to the fact that there is an aas plateau and its a lot closer than most think.


Bro you are still relatively new to gear. You still have plenty of gains to be made. If you wanted to hop on gh, it would benefit you therapeutic doses because of your age and would speed up fat loss if your diet is relatively clean. Honestly, I know people are going to argue and disagree with me, but gh in high doses does not induce muscle growth. What it does is force your body to use stored fat as energy as well as strengthening your connective tissue, faster recovery and give you an overall better sense of self being. What is going to help pack on more muscle and would be the next step would be slin, but again, there are health issues/consequences to think about if you want to go that route. It's not something I would recommend anyways to someone still new to gear.
 
Bro you are still relatively new to gear. You still have plenty of gains to be made. If you wanted to hop on gh, it would benefit you therapeutic doses because of your age and would speed up fat loss if your diet is relatively clean. Honestly, I know people are going to argue and disagree with me, but gh in high doses does not induce muscle growth. What it does is force your body to use stored fat as energy as well as strengthening your connective tissue, faster recovery and give you an overall better sense of self being. What is going to help pack on more muscle and would be the next step would be slin, but again, there are health issues/consequences to think about if you want to go that route. It's not something I would recommend anyways to someone still new to gear.

Slin scares me. I think im borderline diabetic now. Im prone to going hypo during work outs even with carb loading an hour or so beforehand. I will just hang in there and try some different compounds and work on diet. One other factor that I believe is slowing growth is that for me I tend to train for power too much. I dont respond to low reps for growth.

Im focusing more on how I look now and even though I am smaller... it sure is nice to be able to tie my shoes easily and not get winded walking up stairs. I started this thread because Im sure there are others like me that thought that gear was a sure fire way to get huge. Dont get me wrong.... im very very pleased with how far ive come and I know AAs helped a lot. But if people are counting on them taking you to a 250lb lean big guy.... from a 190lb guy... its not going to happen. At least not for several years.

Thanks for the help. You sound very knowledgeable and experienced. Thats what I need most I guess now. Someone to tell me to... Stay The Course! LOL
 
My 1st time I went from 185 to 215, then like an idiot I didn't work out for 8 months or so, calories obviously dropped substantially ended up at 180.

2nd time went from 180 to 220 was able to hold 210 until

3rd time currently in the middle of it got as high as 232 but I'm purposely trying to keep weight down because I need to come in at 220 for a powerlifting meet in April otherwise i'm pretty sure i'd be pretty close to 240 right now.

During that 2nd cycle obviously muscle memory helped a lot but i'm almost certain my ending bf% was lower than at the start, I was probably holding more water but who cares, if i'm holding it off cycle than i'd consider it to be lbm.

At the end of the day i'm up 47 lbs in less than 2 years with about the same bf% but more water. definitely not complaining. And I definitely believe you can put on some legit lbm in relatively short periods of time.
 
After first few years training this is a realistic goal if training, diet and super supps are spot on. 10 lb of muscle makes you look a lot different. After 4 years or so even 5lb a year gets tough. Again 5lb pure muscle on an already impressive frame is a lot. Scale weight means very little in bodybuilding. It's all about the lean mass /stage weight

There's only 3 times you pack on loads of muscle at a fast rate. When you start lifting, first cycle, first slin run




Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2
Actually your are forgetting after a competition, this is one of the easiest times to make unbelievable lean gains, your body will hardly put on bodyfat and will grow at a much faster rate.
 
I've never competed so didn't think to mention that. Nice platue breaking rebound after any decent cut actually. Good point my man

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2
 
Slin scares me. I think im borderline diabetic now. Im prone to going hypo during work outs even with carb loading an hour or so beforehand. I will just hang in there and try some different compounds and work on diet. One other factor that I believe is slowing growth is that for me I tend to train for power too much. I dont respond to low reps for growth.

Im focusing more on how I look now and even though I am smaller... it sure is nice to be able to tie my shoes easily and not get winded walking up stairs. I started this thread because Im sure there are others like me that thought that gear was a sure fire way to get huge. Dont get me wrong.... im very very pleased with how far ive come and I know AAs helped a lot. But if people are counting on them taking you to a 250lb lean big guy.... from a 190lb guy... its not going to happen. At least not for several years.

Thanks for the help. You sound very knowledgeable and experienced. Thats what I need most I guess now. Someone to tell me to... Stay The Course! LOL

Low reps don't really work for hypertrophy unless you have more slow twitch fibers. Forget about training for strength for now because it sounds like your pretty strong anyways. Aim for 10-25 reps. 10-12 reps for compound exercises and 15-25 reps for isos.
 
I posted pics of me in the Auexis transformation thread, I never took many pics when I first started out due to being insecure about myself and not wanting to show off a half ass pic when I knew in the end I would blow it to pieces , it would have been interesting to take a pic every month or 2 just to see the changes but like I said I was embarrassed at how I looked.

The reason I stuck with the non "exotic " stuff was mostly due to a few reasons, which is quality ( I couldn't find a good source who I trusted to get me legit stuff , I only had access to test, and a few pro hormones ), and the fact that the people I wanted to look like the most ( Arnold, and pretty much the rest of the "Golden Era" age of bodybuilders) didn't use many of the exotic stuff ( or so I was told), so it just made sense to use whats been tried and tested.

This was exactly my situation. I put on 20 lbs of lbm and went from 12% to 8% bf with just running 500-1000 mg test and 3 oral cycles (2 of which were havoc - an otc designer) over 7 months. I didn't use any progesterones, anabolics such as primo or eq, hardeners, ect. I almost prefer the otc orals because they are as strong and I don't have to worry about them being fake or under dosed.
 
My first cycle (dbol 8 weeks, test 12 weeks) I was 170lbs, got up to 195lbs and then went down to 190lbs. I also went from ~12% body fat to around 15-16% though.
Funny thing was that I got up to 195lbs by 8 weeks from the Dbol. I love me some Dbol, nothing makes me put on both mass and strength even at low doses like Dbol.
I swear if it wasn't for my liver I'd be on it year round.
 
My first cycle (dbol 8 weeks, test 12 weeks) I was 170lbs, got up to 195lbs and then went down to 190lbs. I also went from ~12% body fat to around 15-16% though.
Funny thing was that I got up to 195lbs by 8 weeks from the Dbol. I love me some Dbol, nothing makes me put on both mass and strength even at low doses like Dbol.
I swear if it wasn't for my liver I'd be on it year round.

Dbol is awesome, but I liked it more when I was a beginner than I do now. I guess I'm too fussy now, but dealing with blood pressure, estrogen, and the bloat is just annoying. Sure you look massive on cycle, but I'd rather run something dryer or stronger but still dry and keep my grainy,hard look. Plus at the end of the cycle, you look the same whether you went wet or dry.
 

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