What's the verdict on Protein Shakes & Keto Diet

[KillerStack]

Whole protein without fat present will not digest properly. It must be hydrolyzed and this is where amino tabs come in. You don't want to be taking an unhydrolyzed powder with fat present because it will delay absorption. Save it for after you slam some aminos into your system.

You doubt Di Pasquale would advocate a precision amino mix after a weight session? Ask him. I guarantee he will agree with me.

Beverly just protein that's been hydrolyzed? What kind of statement is this? Stupid. All di, tri and free aminos are the product of hydrolysis. The higher the degree, to a point, the better quality.

Protein powders are fine if you're not in a rush to recuperate immediately after a workout. One gram of a high quality 70-85% hydrolyzed amino has the bio-availability of 10-15 grams whole protein. The reason a highly hydrolyzed powder is not available is because nobody wants to suffer the taste. Chewing up Di Pasquales amino v.4 will ruin the rest of your day, tasting food wise.

Could you please support some of these statements with some kind of data. One gram of aminos equal to 15 grams of whole food protein. Please.

And whey without fat is not digested "properly". Another please.

Of course DiPasquale would advocate his aminos. But he wouldn't make definitive statements such as you have made. Or at least I very much doubt he would.

Beverly's Aminos actually contain plain whey powder too. That's what the label says.

 

[KillerStack]

One gram of a high quality 70-85% hydrolyzed amino has the bio-availability of 10-15 grams whole protein.

Take a look at this one

Int J Food Sci Nutr. 2008 May 8:1-11.
Plasma amino acid response after ingestion of different whey protein fractions.Farnfield MM, Trenerry C, Carey KA, Cameron-Smith D.
School of Exercise and Nutrition Sciences, Deakin University, Burwood, Victoria, Australia.

Background and objectives The digestion rate of proteins and subsequent absorption of amino acids can independently modulate protein metabolism. The objective of the present study was to examine the blood amino acid response to whey protein isolate (WPI), beta-lactoglobulin-enriched WPI, hydrolysed WPI and a flavour-identical control. Methods Eight healthy adults (four female, four male) were recruited (mean+/-standard error of the mean: age, 27.0+/-0.76 years; body mass index, 23.2+/-0.8 kg/cm(2)) and after an overnight fast consumed 500 ml of each drink, each containing 25g protein, in a cross-over design. Blood was taken at rest and then every 15 min for 2 h post ingestion. Results Ingesting the beta-lactoglobulin-enriched WPI drink resulted in significantly greater plasma leucine concentrations at 45-120 min and significantly greater branched-chain amino acid concentrations at 60-105 min post ingestion compared with hydrolysed WPI. No differences were observed between WPI and beta-lactoglobulin-enriched WPI, and all protein drinks resulted in elevated blood amino acids compared with flavour-identical control. Conclusions In conclusion, whole proteins resulted in a more rapid absorption of leucine and branched-chain amino acid into the blood compared with the hydrolysed molecular form of whey protein.
PMID: 18608553

Are you still saying hydrolyzed proteins are more rapidly absorbed for a fact?

 

[kingpeon]

Welp, you've got a study to prove me wrong. I guess I'll close up shop and jump on the whey with water after weight session shake like the rest of the sheep. I suppose you think ONLY leucine and branched-chain amino acids are important for protein synthesis.

Listen, I don't care if you believe me or not. I've been in this game long enough (20 years)to know what I'm talking about. A properly hydrolyzed and formulated amino acid mix IS equivalent to 10-15 grams of whole dietary protein. How do I KNOW? Because Jon Williams, Russ Horine, Leo Costa Jr and Dr. Di Pasquale said it. You're not disputing with just myself, but with them also. Next you'll want me to prove they said it.

I'm not trying to steer any one wrong, just sharing what has enabled me to make consistent quality gains.

Whenever I up my aminos and cut my dietary protein I still make excellent gains. And thanks to the calorie deficit I get nice and sliced up at the same time. Now you tell me, do I need a study to explain this?

You want studies? Pick up Amino Acids and Proteins for the Athlete: The Anabolic Edge by Dr. Di Pasquale.

All complete protein sources, whey, casein, milk protein, in Beverly are hydrolyzed up to around 50%. Try again.

You do what works for you and when I spout off about what I know works best for me, just disregard it as bull@#$%.

 

[KillerStack]

Welp, you've got a study to prove me wrong. I guess I'll close up shop and jump on the whey with water after weight session shake like the rest of the sheep. I suppose you think ONLY leucine and branched-chain amino acids are important for protein synthesis.

Listen, I don't care if you believe me or not. I've been in this game long enough (20 years)to know what I'm talking about. A properly hydrolyzed and formulated amino acid mix IS equivalent to 10-15 grams of whole dietary protein. How do I KNOW? Because Jon Williams, Russ Horine, Leo Costa Jr and Dr. Di Pasquale said it. You're not disputing with just myself, but with them also. Next you'll want me to prove they said it.

I'm not trying to steer any one wrong, just sharing what has enabled me to make consistent quality gains.

Whenever I up my aminos and cut my dietary protein I still make excellent gains. And thanks to the calorie deficit I get nice and sliced up at the same time. Now you tell me, do I need a study to explain this?

You want studies? Pick up Amino Acids and Proteins for the Athlete: The Anabolic Edge by Dr. Di Pasquale.

All complete protein sources, whey, casein, milk protein, in Beverly are hydrolyzed up to around 50%. Try again.

You do what works for you and when I spout off about what I know works best for me, just disregard it as bull@#$%.

Look, man, I'm not saying aminos can't be advantageous. What I am saying is that it would be hard to support those statements by scientific data. I'm not discounting personal experience either. It's valuable. Nothing wrong with you sharing your experience.

What I took issue with was this part:

"Who says to take a shake after your workout? That's amateurish at best."

That's a silly statement IMHO. There's many "pros" who would take issue with that. Like Lyle McDonald and Alan Aragorn. Lyle is the guy I would go to for diet info (everyone chooses who they decide to listen to of course). Lyle, who wrote a huge ass tome on protein himself (I think Dante carries it), said DiPasquale's protein book was a piece of shit. I haven't read it but Lyle is mostly right in my experience, especially when it comes to science, so I won't be picking it up since money is tight.

Like a lot of times in discussions I'm taking issue with how something is said (how something is represented), not necessarily what is being said. Having an opinion on what works without supporting data is fine when presented as anecdotal evidence. The same is not fine when presented as facts if it can't be backed up (like saying hydrolyzed proteins are always faster absorbed or that 1 gram of hydro equals 10 grams of whole food protein). See what I'm saying?

 

[KillerStack]

If you're interested in alternate viewpoints here's a good thread. You have to register to view it I think.

**broken link removed**

Hydrolyzed proteins are discussed and Mauro is mentioned too.

 

[deadpool44]

Thanks for the the response Shelby.

I'll be doing the 5 day no carb/high fat/moderate protein the 2 day/high carb diet.

My only concern when taking the shake PW, yes there are zero carb drinks, however, I am worried about the sugar and the spike of insulin that may occur which wil know me out of Keto.

Your thoughts?

Cheers
Chip

I been involved with Keto diets for some time. If you are wanting to stay on a low carb diet protein shakes are fine. But if you are trying to stay in ketosis during a ketogenic diet then I would avoid Whey protein shakes. Whey has the tenacity to turn into glucose and be utilized as glucose and a simple shift of your blood sugar will drop you out of ketosis. Now of course there are plenty of studies to back this up, but I am talking from actually experience. During my early ketogenic cycles I couldnt get into or stay in ketosis. I had no carbs, whey protein isolate has no carbs. And after further study I found there is process glucoesisisis????? something rather (not sure how to spell) that converts proteins to glucose, and whey converts rather quickly. It is easy to test it yourself. Go by some keto strips at your local Walmart. Get into ketosis and take a shake and see if you are still in ketosis. Pretty simple. I think the keto strips are like $10 for 50 strips. Plus your glucose stores should still be relatively low so it is easy to dip right back into ketosis as well.

 

[Bionic]

Ketostix are not a reliable way to measure ketosis. First because they only detect one of the three types of ketones (acetoacetate), and second because they only measure the concentration of excess acetoacetate in the urine. If you have no excess acetoacetate left to pee, then you can be in ketosis without the stix changing color. Or you can eat a pound of butter per day and then the ketostix will turn pink or purple, but you probably won't lose weight or even gain. You can also make the stix darker by adding more short and medium chain triglycerides to your diet (e.g. coconut oil), but that won't mean anything either. You should let the scale/mirror/BF testing determine if you are losing fat or not.

 

[johnjuanb1]

I hate keto diets. I look flat and small. 50grams protein/50grams rice 6x/day = I'm full and look incredible!

 

[johnjuanb1]

I meant to say carbs, not rice. Haha