When do you consider yourself "Fasted"

[Gunsmith]

im wondering when you guys would consider your body in a fasted state? Say you wanted to do AM weight training but PM cardio , how many hrs after you last meal would you say you were fasted?

In the past i have had a whey shake at 1:00 pm then trained weights at 3:30 and was fucking starving the whole time and realy dorpped my Blood Glucose so it would seem that my body was "fasted"

is 3-4 hrs after a fast digesting protein meal considered fasted

 

[cm]

could be. You might want to get a blood. gluc. monitor and check it every once in a while. Esp. after a whey shake. tends to have a sharper rise then food, so subsequent sharper drop, so could be real low at the 3-4 hour mark. the monitor will tell all
-c

 

[sonicwaste]

I agree with using the monitor.

I consider myself to be fasted when by bg drops back down to "fasted" level. I determine my "fasted" level as my waking bg level after sleep, not having eaten in a minimum of 8 hours.

 

[dece870717]

Depending on your meal your food can still be digesting for upto 4-5 hours. Blood glucose i dont't think is a good indicator of whether you are fasted or not. Your body maintains blood glucose far to well and blood glucose can reach a normal level well before your meals are completely digested. But I'd say you are in the fasted state 4-5 hours after your last meal and 2-3 after a simple whey protein drink is about right.

 

[sonicwaste]

I always equte fasted with fasted bg level. I am sure there are other acceptable interpretations as well.

 

[cm]

food digests a heck of a lot longer then 5 hours. 27 feet of small intestine. Blood glucose is the best indicator. Best. How do you know your ready in 2 hours after a shake, but not solid food? What if your protein sucks and full of lactose, but the label says it isn't. Which food is faster for you? How do you know 4 hours after food? You see it is all a guess without a measurement. It is not a test so there is no right or wrong answer. You measure it, so you know precisely, and that measurement will be slightly different for you and everybody else.
Just cause you are hungry during those random intervals doesn't mean you are fasted, although it may mean your blood sugar is low, causing hunger, but it doesn't make it an absolute
-c

 

[Gunsmith]

Alfresco if that's the case then I'm likely never truely fasted as I take in 65-70g casine protein at 9:30pm then wake at 4:00. I know that casine takes alot longer to digest that most typical foods.
I guess I need to cut that last "meal" out when I start doing "fasted card" in order for it to work.

As far as watching the BG levels I'm running a Palumbo style diet and their is very little difference between my waking BG levels and 20-30 min post meal , but like mentioned above I may not be truely "fasted" when I wake up

 

[myosin]

Hospital protocol...

Well, in one sense, Alfresco/Wiki were right, but, to what you are wanting/thinking GS, I don't think you can get a "black or white", but, what we do at work might be applicable to you...

I'm guessing, you want the fasted state to increase FFA mobilization.

Basically, as an oversimplification, it's when your stomach has emptied... and different foods will affect that.

Surgery:
Food: minimum- no solids for 8 hours (preferably 12 hours)
"Thick" Liquids: formula's such as pediasure, ensure, etc- 6 hours
"Thin" liquids: breast milk and water, 3-4 hours

The anesthesiologist's concern is having food in the stomach and if the patient vomit's during the intubation and/or procedure... but again, yours is more for FFA's.

Well, as mentioned above, I don't think there is a "straight answer", but if going by above somewhat, if you have a "fast emptying" protein shake (whey as opposed to casein) your stomach should be empty after a couple hours.

I dunno, just throwing thoughts out there, open to discussion of course.

Edit: I just re-read your response to Alfresco... if you have your shake at 9:30pm and cardio at 4am, you should be more than gtg big man.

 

[sonicwaste]

for the purposes of fat loss/ffa mobilization, fasting means there is no insulin present. That is the environment many people are speaking of and referring to as fasted.

Fasting will carry a different definition for different circumstances we are relating it to.

 

[myosin]

Good one..

for the purposes of fat loss/ffa mobilization, fasting means there is no insulin present. That is the environment many people are speaking of and referring to as fasted.

Fasting will carry a different definition for different circumstances we are relating it to.

Nice- good point sonic... if insulin is too high, it will cause FFA deposition vs release... nice

 

[SpartanPete]

very informative thread thanks for sharing all this
the more i learn the more i realize just how much i
don't know

 

[cm]

Right^^. the question was originally last meal, then how long before cardio?
I believe it would be when bl.gluc. goes down to the lowest point to make it the most effective to mobilize ffa'a
As far as all the other definitions, these don't apply to this situation. he's eating a meal at night sometime b4 exercise so were talking about low blood sugar fasted cardio to make it as close to morning as he can get it.
Although I did find it interesting that the WIKI def. states when a food is done being digested and absorbed is when you are considered fasted. Like gunsmith said we are prob not in a fasted state that often according to the definition unless we skip 2 meals or more
I guess that leaves very little time to use any supplementation when no macro combo is desired ie leucine, peps,frag etc.

 

[myosin]

What if....

Right^^. the question was originally last meal, then how long before cardio?
I believe it would be when bl.gluc. goes down to the lowest point to make it the most effective to mobilize ffa'a
As far as all the other definitions, these don't apply to this situation. he's eating a meal at night sometime b4 exercise so were talking about low blood sugar fasted cardio to make it as close to morning as he can get it.
Although I did find it interesting that the WIKI def. states when a food is done being digested and absorbed is when you are considered fasted. Like gunsmith said we are prob not in a fasted state that often according to the definition unless we skip 2 meals or more
I guess that leaves very little time to use any supplementation when no macro combo is desired ie leucine, peps,frag etc.

I see your thinking CM... believe me, not splitting hairs, I'm just having fun with this discussion .... isn't it possible for a person's BG to be low BUT insulin still high?

Example- what if someone eats, BUT, for whatever reason they have too much insulin in the blood (they took too much exogenous insulin, they are hyper-insulinemic, they went a long time without eating and the pancreas "overshot" it's required amount, they took a very high GI food causing a large amount of insulin to be released, etc)? The blood sugar will go down, BUT the insulin levels are still up.... so then, FFA mobilization would still be impaired... if anything then, the liver would have to go into gluconeogenesis (such a cool word ) via glucagon to get BG back up.

 

[sonicwaste]

isn't it possible for a person's BG to be low BUT insulin still high?

Like you said, if using exogenous insulin.

But, if fat loss is the goal... you aren't using insulin

 

[juced_porkchop]

man iv never fasted other then waiting to eat at some place, hopfully i never will. even when i lift i have a shake 1hr before.

 

[myosin]

Oh, yes, but....

Like you said, if using exogenous insulin.

But, if fat loss is the goal... you aren't using insulin

I agree... but- Endogenous insulin can still be high if BG is low as by some of the other examples I mentioned... eating a high GI food causing a large spike in insulin which will drop BG but insulin is still circulating, etc...

 

[sonicwaste]

I agree... but- Endogenous insulin can still be high if BG is low as by some of the other examples I mentioned... eating a high GI food causing a large spike in insulin which will drop BG but insulin is still circulating, etc...

Hmmm... I'd definitely have to think that through when I am more mentally aware. That is a good point. I want to say that insulin would be gone pretty fast as your bg drops back to normal. Further thinking is required.

It is safe to say though: If 8 hours have elapsed since the high gi carb meal has been consumed, bg is back to normal... then no insulin will be present.

The circumstance most of us deal with, with fasted cardio is upon waking in the morning.

 

[Gunsmith]

OK , 6:30 pm , 10oz top sirloin and 3 cups green veggies , 9:30pm last night had 50g Casine 15g fat from almond butter.

4:30am blood glucose check 3 times , 83,84,83

tonight i'm going to skip the late night protein and check BG again at 4;30 after 10hrs "fasting" in the past say on the weekends when i sleep in i generaly only get to sleep about 8hrs max then i wake with a mild head ache and major hunger pangs

 

[Gunsmith]

as far as exogenous insulin goes , i have heard of a protocal where you inject 3iu humolog 1hr pre cardio , this is supposed to drop BG into a fasted state thus giving the same effect of doing fasted cardio but the ability to do it later in the day after eating all day.

If i remember correctly , the last meal you take in is a whey shake then 1hr afgter that you do your shot then 1hr after that you do your cardio or training. Doesn't sound like a good midea to me but i suppose their is some theory behind it

 

[juicin]

as far as exogenous insulin goes , i have heard of a protocal where you inject 3iu humolog 1hr pre cardio , this is supposed to drop BG into a fasted state thus giving the same effect of doing fasted cardio but the ability to do it later in the day after eating all day.

If i remember correctly , the last meal you take in is a whey shake then 1hr afgter that you do your shot then 1hr after that you do your cardio or training. Doesn't sound like a good midea to me but i suppose their is some theory behind it

This sounds interesting. 3iu would probably be too much for me to handle with only a shake an hour before though. Also i wonder what insulin levels would be like in the blood an hour after a humalog shot. I would still think they would be elevated even with 3 ius.