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When gains are over- next step

Muay Thai

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you look really dry and grainy, thats hard to continue to grow IMO during those periods, especially if you are using androgens, allow yourself some bf fluxuation when upping calories, stay between 10-12% max and allow some room for growth

5x5.....
 

fastlife

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Then WHAT is holding you back? You are giving Tom advise on how to gain muscle yet Tom is on less drugs than you and absolutely DESTROYS your physique.
@heavyhitter you honestly confuse the living fuck out of me, you are on absolutely every single thread on PM giving advice on food, drugs, training, how to get big. I can't understand why you can't apply things to yourself?
Lmao
 

heavyhitter

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He has a log going right now, if he is 250-260 then HOLY FUCK! He literally looks about 190-200 lbs THAT IS THE OPPOSITE OF BODYBUILDING.
to @heavyhitter I know it sounds like I'm shitting on you but I'm truly not THE KNOWLEDGE is there I just don't understand why you can't apply it to yourself and yes I know you have digestive issues BUT you have found various ways around it by finding what food work for you and other things...you have VAST KNOWLEDGE in that area and have tremendously helped a lot of people here with that knowledge, I just can't understand why you have built more muscle than what you have. I understand this is probably offensive to you as it would be to any true bodybuilder with a love for this game, but if your going to talk the talk then walk the walk and own that shit.
I mean I’ve only been back at serious training and AAS for about 10 or so weeks now. Slowly tryin to increase food in a way that doesn’t destroy my stomach. Daily diarrhea makes this pretty difficult
 

heavyhitter

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I mean I’ve only been back at serious training and AAS for about 10 or so weeks now. Slowly tryin to increase food in a way that doesn’t destroy my stomach. Daily diarrhea makes this pretty difficult
This is why I know food intake is the issue at hand here 😉 it’s always been the limiting factor for me.
And by the way, I knew I’d get grief for the photos and whatnot in my log, but I’m doing it for myself to stay accountable, and to have a visual reference for my progress. And I’m currently hovering just under the 220 mark. Don’t worry, I’ll make it back to the 240 lean goal that I’m shooting for….just might take me longer than some others
 

b-boy

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This is why I know food intake is the issue at hand here 😉 it’s always been the limiting factor for me.
And by the way, I knew I’d get grief for the photos and whatnot in my log, but I’m doing it for myself to stay accountable, and to have a visual reference for my progress. And I’m currently hovering just under the 220 mark. Don’t worry, I’ll make it back to the 240 lean goal that I’m shooting for….just might take me longer than some others
Well I can say one thing for certainty, you are definitely not a dick or an asshole, you responded to my post like a mature adult that you can tell is one cool mofo.
 

heavyhitter

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Well I can say one thing for certainty, you are definitely not a dick or an asshole, you responded to my post like a mature adult that you can tell is one cool mofo.
Thanks man. I appreciate that. I learned a long time ago to try not to let things get to me too much, and do what makes me happy. I know I don’t currently meet anyones standard of a good bodybuilder, but I have before…and I’m proud of that. I’d like to try’s to get even 75 percent back there. Mostly, I just really like doing this. I enjoy the process, I like seeing the changes in the body, and I crave the challenge of beating the logbook. This keeps me sane, even though the eating can be tough on me mentally. But I don’t know what I’d do otherwise? This is such a huge part of my life. I love every aspect of it. I’m an obsessive researcher when It comes to anything to do with nutrition, lifting, etc. i listen to like 6-8 hours worth of bodybuilding related podcasts at work.
And quite frankly, having the size and strength I’ve had makes me feel good about myself, and has saved my life on more than one occasion in a physical altercation. While I’m disappointed with the current state of my physique, I’m working my ass off and figured being transparent and having a log where im not bullshitting myself or anyone else would be helpful. I’m open to advice, as well as criticism. I expected it. I’m thankful for the things the iron life has given me.
 

MightyJohn

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I probably wouldn’t mess with mast too much as I got older for prostate reasons. My plan is a bit of testosterone and a couple iu gh daily. Maybe npp occasionally, but pretty much just test and gh
In My 40s I'm ok with Mast/test 19-Nors I never did well with
 

Tomgrass

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Ok guys thank you very much for all advices you gave me. You are right i think i am in comfort zone. Yes that is truth i dont wanna get fat. I want to look like a bodybuilder and i am fairly sure that the more bodyfat i am putting on me the more the harder is to built mass. But i think i took it too literally and I dont want to put any at all. Also being that hard and shredded also can inhibit my gains. So i will make some changes. I react very good to deca or npp and i can go high dose of these compound and feel great. So I will start from here. I will also swap prop for humangrade enanthate and allow myself for more days with higher calories also I will add slin postworkout to make sure that this period of time is utilize as good as possible. Another thing I will change is being 7 times in the gym to 3. Will use DC split without changing anything at all in a plan and I will follow this for a year. Also will not make any any cutting until I will reach at least 10 kg more on scale and will hold this tissue for 3 months. Will add synthetine and metmorfin as they are also tools in my arsenal i have never used. I looked into all aspects what can be done different - like you said - cant doing the same expect different outcome.
 

Tomgrass

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Ok guys thank you very much for all advices you gave me. You are right i think i am in comfort zone. Yes that is truth i dont wanna get fat. I want to look like a bodybuilder and i am fairly sure that the more bodyfat i am putting on me the more the harder is to built mass. But i think i took it too literally and I dont want to put any at all. Also being that hard and shredded also can inhibit my gains. So i will make some changes. I react very good to deca or npp and i can go high dose of these compound and feel great. So I will start from here. I will also swap prop for humangrade enanthate and allow myself for more days with higher calories also I will add slin postworkout to make sure that this period of time is utilize as good as possible. Another thing I will change is being 7 times in the gym to 3. Will use DC split without changing anything at all in a plan and I will follow this for a year. Also will not make any any cutting until I will reach at least 10 kg more on scale and will hold this tissue for 3 months. Will add synthetine and metmorfin as they are also tools in my arsenal i have never used. I looked into all aspects what can be done different - like you said - cant doing the same expect different outcome.
I also react very well for primo always was fan of it. Will slowly up the dose and evaluate from it step 1 test from
200 prop goes to 300 enanthate and depend what my source carry now it will be primo or npp as i like to have test and one anabolic. Will also use dbol or tbol every few weeks.
 

heavyhitter

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Ok guys thank you very much for all advices you gave me. You are right i think i am in comfort zone. Yes that is truth i dont wanna get fat. I want to look like a bodybuilder and i am fairly sure that the more bodyfat i am putting on me the more the harder is to built mass. But i think i took it too literally and I dont want to put any at all. Also being that hard and shredded also can inhibit my gains. So i will make some changes. I react very good to deca or npp and i can go high dose of these compound and feel great. So I will start from here. I will also swap prop for humangrade enanthate and allow myself for more days with higher calories also I will add slin postworkout to make sure that this period of time is utilize as good as possible. Another thing I will change is being 7 times in the gym to 3. Will use DC split without changing anything at all in a plan and I will follow this for a year. Also will not make any any cutting until I will reach at least 10 kg more on scale and will hold this tissue for 3 months. Will add synthetine and metmorfin as they are also tools in my arsenal i have never used. I looked into all aspects what can be done different - like you said - cant doing the same expect different outcome.
7 days a week of training would definitely be hard for me to gain any size on. Sounds like some good changes
 

smok44

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B-Boy (and many other members of this forum), I really can't understand this condescending and despising attitude you always demonstrate towards people starting threads like this one.
Did yourself ever look like Phil Heath or Flex Lewis? No. Is it because you didn't train as hard or as smart as them? Or that your diet was not on point or that you didn't have access to their cycles? Of course not. It's simply because you don't have their genes. And yet you're an IFBB Pro, so you're also part of a narrow genetic elite. So why is it so hard for you to understand that the absolute majority of people will never grow big muscles like yours, no matter how hard they train and how much they eat and how much AAS they take?
And there are many people not made for hypertrophy at all, and all they can expect after years of effort and dedication is 10 pounds more, not 100.
All these people giving bullshit advice on this forum about the need to eat more to grow are most likely quite blessed genetically, and they think what applies to them applies to everyone else. But it's not the case, most people will just get fat and not grow bigger muscles by eating much above maintenance, no matter the amount of AAS they take.
Why do you assume that you know how to train hard and how to design a diet while other people can't? Honestly, this is no rocket science, especially with the amount of information available online these days. It's all about genetics, that's the sad truth ( or maybe 80% about genetics).
At 6ft1 and a lean 220 pounds, the author of this thread has impressive stats anyway, much above what the average person could ever achieve.
 

heavyhitter

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B-Boy (and many other members of this forum), I really can't understand this condescending and despising attitude you always demonstrate towards people starting threads like this one.
Did yourself ever look like Phil Heath or Flex Lewis? No. Is it because you didn't train as hard or as smart as them? Or that your diet was not on point or that you didn't have access to their cycles? Of course not. It's simply because you don't have their genes. And yet you're an IFBB Pro, so you're also part of a narrow genetic elite. So why is it so hard for you to understand that the absolute majority of people will never grow big muscles like yours, no matter how hard they train and how much they eat and how much AAS they take?
And there are many people not made for hypertrophy at all, and all they can expect after years of effort and dedication is 10 pounds more, not 100.
All these people giving bullshit advice on this forum about the need to eat more to grow are most likely quite blessed genetically, and they think what applies to them applies to everyone else. But it's not the case, most people will just get fat and not grow bigger muscles by eating much above maintenance, no matter the amount of AAS they take.
Why do you assume that you know how to train hard and how to design a diet while other people can't? Honestly, this is no rocket science, especially with the amount of information available online these days. It's all about genetics, that's the sad truth ( or maybe 80% about genetics).
At 6ft1 and a lean 220 pounds, the author of this thread has impressive stats anyway, much above what the average person could ever achieve.
Man I’m 6’1”, shit genetics. Severe ibs that makes pounding food a 24 hour a day chore. Started at 141 pounds at 19, ate juiced and trained my way up to 264. I’ll never place well on stage, but I built a shitload of muscle and a helluva lot of strength. If I can do it, anyone can. No, not everyone will be a threat on stage, but anyone can get big. It takes time, hella food, hard as hell training, and smart drug usage in that order. And if you think genetics are the only thing that matters in this game you should just quit now. And if the author wants to continue to gain size, it’ll be at the dinner table and not in the gym or from the end of a needle
 

heavyhitter

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And the OP clearly has better genetics for this than I do, so I don’t say any of this out of any sort or thoughts of superiority….but as some poor asshole who’s had to grind for every single fucking ounce and knows it first hand
Man I’m 6’1”, shit genetics. Severe ibs that makes pounding food a 24 hour a day chore. Started at 141 pounds at 19, ate juiced and trained my way up to 264. I’ll never place well on stage, but I built a shitload of muscle and a helluva lot of strength. If I can do it, anyone can. No, not everyone will be a threat on stage, but anyone can get big. It takes time, hella food, hard as hell training, and smart drug usage in that order. And if you think genetics are the only thing that matters in this game you should just quit now. And if the author wants to continue to gain size, it’ll be at the dinner table and not in the gym or from the end of a needle
 

b-boy

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Man I’m 6’1”, shit genetics. Severe ibs that makes pounding food a 24 hour a day chore. Started at 141 pounds at 19, ate juiced and trained my way up to 264. I’ll never place well on stage, but I built a shitload of muscle and a helluva lot of strength. If I can do it, anyone can. No, not everyone will be a threat on stage, but anyone can get big. It takes time, hella food, hard as hell training, and smart drug usage in that order. And if you think genetics are the only thing that matters in this game you should just quit now. And if the author wants to continue to gain size, it’ll be at the dinner table and not in the gym or from the end of a needle
EXACTLY 💯 ^^^^ thank you! 100% TRUTH
 

b-boy

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B-Boy (and many other members of this forum), I really can't understand this condescending and despising attitude you always demonstrate towards people starting threads like this one.
Did yourself ever look like Phil Heath or Flex Lewis? No. Is it because you didn't train as hard or as smart as them? Or that your diet was not on point or that you didn't have access to their cycles? Of course not. It's simply because you don't have their genes. And yet you're an IFBB Pro, so you're also part of a narrow genetic elite. So why is it so hard for you to understand that the absolute majority of people will never grow big muscles like yours, no matter how hard they train and how much they eat and how much AAS they take?
And there are many people not made for hypertrophy at all, and all they can expect after years of effort and dedication is 10 pounds more, not 100.
All these people giving bullshit advice on this forum about the need to eat more to grow are most likely quite blessed genetically, and they think what applies to them applies to everyone else. But it's not the case, most people will just get fat and not grow bigger muscles by eating much above maintenance, no matter the amount of AAS they take.
Why do you assume that you know how to train hard and how to design a diet while other people can't? Honestly, this is no rocket science, especially with the amount of information available online these days. It's all about genetics, that's the sad truth ( or maybe 80% about genetics).
At 6ft1 and a lean 220 pounds, the author of this thread has impressive stats anyway, much above what the average person could ever achieve.
LMAO 🤣 GTFOH
 

OuchThatHurts

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First off.. no one has every tapped out their genetic potential.. even at your age.. ive seen guy make dramatic changes at over 40.. secondly like many have said gh is for some a game changer as far as looks.. body composition etc.. but isn't that what we are looking for ? Looks.. there is many things to try that will not drain the pocketbook.. your not done yet unless you wanna be..
When you reach your genetic potential, as far as you can go, you'll be carved out of stone and built something like this:

blank-gravestone-with-other-graves-in-the-background-picture-id1006480588.jpg
 

Tomgrass

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Huge thank you guys. Bitter truth always 10000x better then sweet lies. Journey started.
 

BigNJ

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41 years old
100 kg 220 lbs
186 cm 6 foot 1
Bf depend around 7-8
Calories intake
Protein from 300 -400 dat
Carbs depend on day from 200 to 600
Fats around 50-70
I eat more on days like back or legs less on other- really common sense diet is not complicated lets be honest…
Gear wise
Test as base 250 mg week that never change
And then i rotate anabolics
Right now var 50 mg day
In two weeks time i will start npp 50 mg day and add primo 400 week.
Training low volume DC style
Day 1 chest 3 sets one
Day 2 back 4 sets
Day 3 shoulders 3 sets
Day 4 arms 3 sets triceps 2 sets biceps
Day 5 legs
Repeat
I recover very well - apetite mood progression in the gym all the time
If i stall on progression on more then 3 weeks -reps or weight i replace exercise.
Supplements wise
Wake up
Portion of humapro
Workout
Portion of humapro
20 minutes later whey isolate
And later all meals depending on day
Additional zma before bed
2 grams epa dhea
Multiwitamins
Vit d3 6000 iu
50 mg zinc picolinate for managing estro
Diet rich in: phosphorus magnesium potassium no food allergies , multicarb meals fructose combined with other sources for better absorption , fruits with every meal
Sources of food :
Proteins: white fish chicken and turkey , eggwhites , whey isolate
Carbs : sweet potatoes oatmeal fruits- these sources of food agree with my digestion and feel great on them
Fats cod liver oil meat
Your carbs are way too low to gain anything substantial. I don't care how much protein a person consumes, if the carbs are lacking you are not going anywhere.
Second, What do you expect to gain from such low amounts of AAS? Everyone seems to complicate the fuck out of taking juice when it's really simple. Eat more food, take more AAS and recover. I don't get it.
You take 250mg of Test/week and 50mgs of Anavar per day and Primo and npp.

I think your issue is you want to stay lean and that is why you are not growing.

People fuck around with way too many damn compounds and take a tiny bit of this and a tiny bit of that and wonder why they are not growing.

Lower your protein and up your carbs, and do a proper no nonsense cycle.
 

TheOtherOne55

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BIGNJ has it right.

It's all food, gear and your own preference about how fat you want to look.
Oh you can't grow anymore? Eat more food. It works. It will always work.
But it's starting to just look like all fat? Ok, well then you need more hormones to tip the scale back in your favor.

And then—you might say you want to get big, but you realllly dont want to get big. The MAJORITY of dudes are this exact example.
The average gym guy thinks that getting big is just eating and building 100% muscle over night. No, no no. You end up getting chubby. To be the big you want, you need to be chubby. And hold on to that chubby for way longer than you'd like to. AND THEN CUT. It's a long game that 95% of dudes are not willing to play. Most guy will spend years just recomping slightly and getting to a good physique. And then, in reality, you cant really do that recomp shit anymore. You either need to cut down or get big the hard way. You MIGHT not be willing to get big the hard way. And that's ok. Just realize that those big gains are in your past. Its fine tuning what you have now.

EVERY PERSON has the ABILITY to get huge. The few who do, realllly want to.
 

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