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When is insulin necessary w HGH?

Matsuo Munefusa

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You're likely just relatively GH insensitive. This is not cause for alarm, you do deviate from the mean of the normal distribution of IGF-1 serum levels, but that's OK.

Circulating GH-binding protein (cGHBP) levels, I would think yours are fairly low, are generally reflective of GH receptor sensitivity as GHBP is derived from GH receptors, basically they are cleaved off from the GH receptor at the cell membrane [1].

"At low GH concentrations, when GH receptors are in excess of free GH, a comparable response to a given amount of GH is expected in all subjects, whereas at a higher GH concentration, the response becomes correlated to the expression of the GH receptors (by levels of cGHBP)" [1].

As we know, at your normal levels of GH and IGF-1, you're healthy. That's what matters, not some arbitrary range. But GHBP levels are the greatest contributor to the wide variations in individual response to GH.

You do not need an endo to get your IGF-1 levels up. Hell, IGF-1 is not something you want chronically elevated unless you are banging hGH and YOLOing like some.

Basically, this just comports with wide interindividual variation, and your observation that you may just be a "poor converter."

[1] Hansen, T. K., Gravholt, C. H., Ørskov, H., Rasmussen, M. H., Christiansen, J. S., & Jørgensen, J. O. L. (2002). Dose Dependency of the Pharmacokinetics and Acute Lipolytic Actions of Growth Hormone. The Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism, 87(10), 4691–4698. doi:10.1210/jc.2002-020563
Why do you think GHBPs are the greatest factor in individual response to GH? Why not IGFBPs?
 

Type-IIx

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Why do you think GHBPs are the greatest factor in individual response to GH? Why not IGFBPs?
While in qb's case it could be an issue with IGFBPs certainly, GHBP appears to be the greatest factor in interindividual variation (and a better predictor of rhGH metabolism than age or body composition) according to research reviews. But I am not certain of the correlative or predictive value of IGFBPs, and my assumption (which may well be incorrect) is that since it hasn't shown up in my study, it must not be of great practical significance yet. Do you have a reason to believe variation in IGFBPs are more/equally significant for this population?
 

Matsuo Munefusa

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While in qb's case it could be an issue with IGFBPs certainly, GHBP appears to be the greatest factor in interindividual variation (and a better predictor of rhGH metabolism than age or body composition) according to research reviews. But I am not certain of the correlative or predictive value of IGFBPs, and my assumption (which may well be incorrect) is that since it hasn't shown up in my study, it must not be of great practical significance yet. Do you have a reason to believe variation in IGFBPs are more/equally significant for this population?
Nope. I didn’t make the assertion though. I was just wondering what the thought process behind your assertion was.
 

Type-IIx

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Nope. I didn’t make the assertion though. I was just wondering what the thought process behind your assertion was.
Ah, an adversarial approach. I just want to learn as much as I can about rhGH with supraphysiological administration. I did make a mistake by saying his levels could be low, I meant the opposite, high as they're inversely correlated!

The trickiest thing about the research on rhGH is they just don't do much study in healthy populations, and lipid derangement, obesity, diabetes, et cetera massively affects the metabolism and downstream effects.
 

qbkilla

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You're likely just relatively GH insensitive. This is not cause for alarm, you do deviate from the mean of the normal distribution of IGF-1 serum levels, but that's OK.

Circulating GH-binding protein (cGHBP) levels, I would think yours are fairly low, are generally reflective of GH receptor sensitivity as GHBP is derived from GH receptors, basically they are cleaved off from the GH receptor at the cell membrane [1].

"At low GH concentrations, when GH receptors are in excess of free GH, a comparable response to a given amount of GH is expected in all subjects, whereas at a higher GH concentration, the response becomes correlated to the expression of the GH receptors (by levels of cGHBP)" [1].

As we know, at your normal levels of GH and IGF-1, you're healthy. That's what matters, not some arbitrary range. But GHBP levels are the greatest contributor to the wide variations in individual response to GH.

You do not need an endo to get your IGF-1 levels up. Hell, IGF-1 is not something you want chronically elevated unless you are banging hGH and YOLOing like some.

Basically, this just comports with wide interindividual variation, and your observation that you may just be a "poor converter."

[1] Hansen, T. K., Gravholt, C. H., Ørskov, H., Rasmussen, M. H., Christiansen, J. S., & Jørgensen, J. O. L. (2002). Dose Dependency of the Pharmacokinetics and Acute Lipolytic Actions of Growth Hormone. The Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism, 87(10), 4691–4698. doi:10.1210/jc.2002-020563

In your opinion, is there anything that can be done to get a better response and GH would work better? I figure the answer is no, genetics are what they are, but never hurts to ask lol
 

Matsuo Munefusa

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Ah, an adversarial approach. I just want to learn as much as I can about rhGH with supraphysiological administration. I did make a mistake by saying his levels could be low, I meant the opposite, high as they're inversely correlated!

The trickiest thing about the research on rhGH is they just don't do much study in healthy populations, and lipid derangement, obesity, diabetes, et cetera massively affects the metabolism and downstream effects.
What’s adversarial about asking you a question about how you came to a conclusion? The fact you perceive a follow up question as “adversarial” shows what you think of the merit of your own posts (that they lack it). I also want to learn and when you make assertions like you appear to know what you’re talking about I would like to probe a little further to see whether or not you’re somebody I can learn something from. The fact that you couldn’t explain why you chose GHBP over IGFBPs as the relevant factor in individual response to GH (your “explanation” was just re-asserting your statement) is pretty telling. You haven’t got a good grasp of the subject matter (yet) and are likely to make many false statements as you use the forum as a sounding board for attempting to gain your own understanding.
 

Type-IIx

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In your opinion, is there anything that can be done to get a better response and GH would work better? I figure the answer is no, genetics are what they are, but never hurts to ask lol
It's really genetic. I don't know what your body fat % is, but if you're over 15% try to lose some fat. That might have a small effect.
What’s adversarial about asking you a question about how you came to a conclusion? The fact you perceive a follow up question as “adversarial” shows what you think of the merit of your own posts (that they lack it). I also want to learn and when you make assertions like you appear to know what you’re talking about I would like to probe a little further to see whether or not you’re somebody I can learn something from. The fact that you couldn’t explain why you chose GHBP over IGFBPs as the relevant factor in individual response to GH (your “explanation” was just re-asserting your statement) is pretty telling. You haven’t got a good grasp of the subject matter (yet) and are likely to make many false statements as you use the forum as a sounding board for attempting to gain your own understanding.
Adversarial in that you frame my probabilistic opinion based on a bit of research as an argument. That your style of communication is directed at probity, determining falsehood. I'm enumerating your style of fact-finding, it is indeed using the adversarial methods.
 

showstopper83

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In your opinion, is there anything that can be done to get a better response and GH would work better? I figure the answer is no, genetics are what they are, but never hurts to ask lol

Brother, it could be an over-worked liver that no longer converts igf-1. Fatty liver can do this.

Why dont you try coming off EVERYTHING for 4-8 weeks, do a HARD cleanse with 1000mg/day each of Methionine, Inositol, Choline and either injectable glutiathone or NAC and then hop back on? Maybe even go keto during that period.

Sounds like you need a hard re-set.
 

Bigboomer5150

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It was labcorp or quest I believe, I used health labs.com. And the range was listed next to my score and I believe my 55 was right within the given range, so just barley in the range at the low end. Im in my late 30's. Interesingley I have never felt I responded well to gear, or had any sides from gear. Not a hard gainer per se as I can always eat my way up and down the scale (can add or lose weight easily based on calories), gear just never has given me the pump or fullness that many report on the forums.
Man I don’t understand this…. Can we see one of your cycles that you’ve ran compounds mg etc duration of use, your size type of weight training?? Etc please..?
 

qbkilla

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5 11 180 to 187. Hard to keep under 187 but I prefer to stay lean and tight year round. Bf typically 7 or so on the inbody machine at gym. Training typically bodybuilding, bro split or pplppl. Tons of cardio. Late 30 s no aspiration for size. Stick to 400 mg a week test, npp, tren, drol but never over 400 mg total.
 

Bigboomer5150

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5 11 180 to 187. Hard to keep under 187 but I prefer to stay lean and tight year round. Bf typically 7 or so on the inbody machine at gym. Training typically bodybuilding, bro split or pplppl. Tons of cardio. Late 30 s no aspiration for size. Stick to 400 mg a week test, npp, tren, drol but never over 400 mg total.
Ok thanks, well that probably explains it all, when you say total are you talking the other compounds besides the test not exceeding 400 mg so test 400 mg weekly and other compounds combined but not more than 400 mg? Do you use the same donor for supplements? These doses besides the test could be to low for you or who knows bad under dosed gear??? But from what you explained your happy w your body and current conditioning size etc. are you eating like a baby bird 🐦 anyways sound like your content w your size but anadrol and tren w the npp is pretty wet you should notice or feel something I would think IMO..
 

Bigboomer5150

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Ok thanks, well that probably explains it all, when you say total are you talking the other compounds besides the test not exceeding 400 mg so test 400 mg weekly and other compounds combined but not more than 400 mg? Do you use the same donor for supplements? These doses besides the test could be to low for you or who knows bad under dosed gear??? But from what you explained your happy w your body and current conditioning size etc. are you eating like a baby bird 🐦 anyways sound like your content w your size but anadrol and tren w the npp is pretty wet you should notice or feel something I would think IMO..
Also you mention tons of cardio which is great, with all due respect I think your running the wrong compounds honestly, from what I can tell or how you would like to grow lean ripped

 

NorwegianMuscle

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I am using 5iu's of HGH daily. I finally got humalog and run it 4 ticks post work out. My building entirely changed. My opinion, when you run a certain amount of HGH you need the slin to optimize effects. I've did this many times in the past with my cycles. My build right now looks nothing like it did prior.
 

Ares

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I am using 5iu's of HGH daily. I finally got humalog and run it 4 ticks post work out. My building entirely changed. My opinion, when you run a certain amount of HGH you need the slin to optimize effects. I've did this many times in the past with my cycles. My build right now looks nothing like it did prior.
With your current protocol with slin and HGH how do you time your HGH?
 

FrancisK

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I am using 5iu's of HGH daily. I finally got humalog and run it 4 ticks post work out. My building entirely changed. My opinion, when you run a certain amount of HGH you need the slin to optimize effects. I've did this many times in the past with my cycles. My build right now looks nothing like it did prior.

In what way is it different specifically?
 

NGL34

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5 11 180 to 187. Hard to keep under 187 but I prefer to stay lean and tight year round. Bf typically 7 or so on the inbody machine at gym. Training typically bodybuilding, bro split or pplppl. Tons of cardio. Late 30 s no aspiration for size. Stick to 400 mg a week test, npp, tren, drol but never over 400 mg total.

Did you happen to test igf while on tren? A lot of reports here with low igf score being a result of running tren.
 

NGL34

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You know that “GH 3D look”? Running log+GH 2-3x day with a tight diet is like that GH 3D look...on steroids.

I'm not quite sure I'm sold on this. Hgh helps us store more intramuscular water and along side of that being glycogen supercompensated from slin. If your lean your going to look extra freaky.
 

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