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When people say strength doesnt matter?

i hate when people say ur built for it or your not, im 6'6.5 do u think i was builtfor benching, nope, but through time and dedication i was at one time i the mid 7's.
now to the thread topic, as a reforming PL'r i now realize all out weight isnt important, its the form/ time under tension of the muscle being worked, now mind you weight is a factor, but not the end all, if it were every PL'r who benched huge weights, pulled huge and squatted huge would have fully developed bodies, right? nope
frk

Then if you were benching that much you would have a world record. Last time I checked it was 715 by Scot Mendelsohn so I guess you wore shirt which negates any sort of muscle hypertrophy so you were most likely benching maybe 500 raw which is still fair for a guy your size.
 
one thing i want to add.. an i have said this before so those who have read it bare with me.. i hear guys stating that they want builds like haidar.. (as a example).. yet they assume haidar does things differently than ruhl or coleman.. he does not.. he rows with a 150 pound dumbell.. i have seen the video.. he rows with 405 on the barbell.. ect ect.. he does what they do in all regards.. HE JUST DOES NOT HAVE THE GENETICS TO GET BIG!.. sorry but true.. he eats 6 times a day.. takes super supplements.. does the almost exact training as the others and trys his "damndest" to get stronger.. and he has gotten stronger and with that came more size.. but dont assume that he does not train heavy and just goes by "feel".. he does not..

the same can be said about nubret.. nubret was quite strong in his early days.. he used well over 400 pounds for fairly high reps in the bench.. then switched his training style.. but look at what he was still able to do.. 6 sets of 12 with 225-250 with 30 seconds rest!?!? that takes some strength and endurance.. but he could not have done those weights if he started out training like that.. he had a strength base already built..

my example is simple.. i started to train more by "feel" last year.. i trained hard.. intense.. it was not easy.. but i increased my reps to 10-15.. slowed the reps down quite a bit.. held the contraction ect ect.. why? well i convinced myself that i was getting "older" and was being safer.. after all, as long as i trained intensely all would be ok ..right? well in my case i was wrong.. i always trained in the 6 rep range for years.. it worked for me.. it was the only way i could keep increasing my poundage no matter how little the increases were at times.. anything over 6 or so reps i could not continue to increase my workloads at all.. i got a "great" workout but i stayed the same and eventually started to lose size and density.. (i am not saying that you can not increase your poundages in the 10 rep range.. you certainly can.. but not the way i was doing them..)

well i grew tired of playing it safe and went back to my old ways.. i started to do my old 6 reps with slow negatives and generally just training heavy again again with good form.. in about three weeks everyone started to ask " are you getting bigger" ;).. my poundages started back up.. and i started to fill out more.. now i do want to say this..when i was training "by feel" i was using about 700 mgs of test a week.. just test.. (just being honest here lol).. when i started going heavier i was using 500 test and was getting more comments about gaining size then previously..

so as i stated already in previous post in this thread.. you may never have a 500 pound squat.. but if it is heavy to you and you are able to increase poundage consistantly you are heading in the right direction.. i will never be a exceptionally strong guy.. never have been for my size.. but as long as i train with the intent of adding weight, no matter how little, i am going in the right direction.. and so are you..:cool:
 
one thing i want to add.. an i have said this before so those who have read it bare with me.. i hear guys stating that they want builds like haidar.. (as a example).. yet they assume haidar does things differently than ruhl or coleman.. he does not.. he rows with a 150 pound dumbell.. i have seen the video.. he rows with 405 on the barbell.. ect ect.. he does what they do in all regards.. HE JUST DOES NOT HAVE THE GENETICS TO GET BIG!.. sorry but true.. he eats 6 times a day.. takes super supplements.. does the almost exact training as the others and trys his "damndest" to get stronger.. and he has gotten stronger and with that came more size.. but dont assume that he does not train heavy and just goes by "feel".. he does not..

the same can be said about nubret.. nubret was quite strong in his early days.. he used well over 400 pounds for fairly high reps in the bench.. then switched his training style.. but look at what he was still able to do.. 6 sets of 12 with 225-250 with 30 seconds rest!?!? that takes some strength and endurance.. but he could not have done those weights if he started out training like that.. he had a strength base already built..

my example is simple.. i started to train more by "feel" last year.. i trained hard.. intense.. it was not easy.. but i increased my reps to 10-15.. slowed the reps down quite a bit.. held the contraction ect ect.. why? well i convinced myself that i was getting "older" and was being safer.. after all, as long as i trained intensely all would be ok ..right? well in my case i was wrong.. i always trained in the 6 rep range for years.. it worked for me.. it was the only way i could keep increasing my poundage no matter how little the increases were at times.. anything over 6 or so reps i could not continue to increase my workloads at all.. i got a "great" workout but i stayed the same and eventually started to lose size and density.. (i am not saying that you can not increase your poundages in the 10 rep range.. you certainly can.. but not the way i was doing them..)

well i grew tired of playing it safe and went back to my old ways.. i started to do my old 6 reps with slow negatives and generally just training heavy again again with good form.. in about three weeks everyone started to ask " are you getting bigger" ;).. my poundages started back up.. and i started to fill out more.. now i do want to say this..when i was training "by feel" i was using about 700 mgs of test a week.. just test.. (just being honest here lol).. when i started going heavier i was using 500 test and was getting more comments about gaining size then previously..

so as i stated already in previous post in this thread.. you may never have a 500 pound squat.. but if it is heavy to you and you are able to increase poundage consistantly you are heading in the right direction.. i will never be a exceptionally strong guy.. never have been for my size.. but as long as i train with the intent of adding weight, no matter how little, i am going in the right direction.. and so are you..:cool:
HAHAHAHAHHAHA thank you lats, you just saved me a shitload of typing. LMAO!! Good post BTW!
 
I beleve you should always train to get stronger in good foarm but also you need abit volume there....
 
Size and strength are equally important IMO, what good is being big if you are not strong? sort of like having a moped engine under the hood of a new vette :)
 
thanks oldfella lol.. my fingers were cramping writing it lol..:D
 
thanks oldfella lol.. my fingers were cramping writing it lol..:D
Yes there have been some lengthy posts here lately! Good to see reasonable debate, differing points of view and all the while keeping it civil. Have we all matured or something..........Time will tell!! HAHAHA:)
 
Thankfully Dante chimed in.

Muscles don't get confused. You need some variation to avoid wear and tear and boredom, but you need to revisit exercises to get stronger on them.

You don't force yourself to get stronger first. I think Betito said something about focus on getting bigger first, then the strenght will come. That makes no sense. You need food, rest, a focus on strength, and drugs. Strength in the appropriate rep ranges that is... So if you're trying to gain 5lbs more on a certain lift and can't, you need to eat/rest/do other things to get there aside from just training to failure.

If you have an opinion on this thread, list your bodyweight and the weights you lift. That's some decent empirical evidence. You can also list your genetic freak buddies who volume train and are huge, but where did they start? How much have they GAINED? How have they gained?

I'll start. I weigh around 270-275lbs right now. I can squat 5 plates ass to ankles for 10 reps. I have pulled 6 plates off the floor with straps for a set of 6 a while back. I started with Dante about 3-4 years ago weighing in the upper 230's (at a much higher bodyfat). I've gained 40+lbs using his system. I used to hammer curl 50lb DB's to failure for lower reps. I can now use 90-100lbs and actually have biceps.

I'll point to Dusty Hanshaw, Steve Kuclo, and a long list of other guys who are scary strong. That's how they got big. Anybody hear of that Matt Kroczajabloney guy? Word on the street is that his back didn't come from high pulley back squeezes done with his knees on the floor using peak contraction.
 
YEAH OLDFELLA.. we are doing good when a couple thousand alpha males are being civil to each other lol.. i would say that we have matured but here we are spending hours typing on a message board lol..:p
 
YEAH OLDFELLA.. we are doing good when a couple thousand alpha males are being civil to each other lol.. i would say that we have matured but here we are spending hours typing on a message board lol..:p
LMAO.....Point taken. I'm going now!!;):D
 
ahh.. There it is! I was waiting for this!!!

Wow I cannot even believe how much I disagree with the majority of people on this thread.

1) the "that guy over there or powerlifter is strong but he is not big comment"...... let me ask you something....if you trained with the most optimal training system handed down from god himself to get big....and you ate just enough or (even not enough) to maintain your current bodyweight (i.e. just like powerlifters who strive to get stronger but stay in weight classes) would you yourself get any bigger? No you wouldnt. So that argument holds as much water as my collander I drained pasta with last night. Show me a guy who doesnt eat enough to get muscularly bigger and Ill show you a guy who isnt getting bigger no matter how he trains!

2) Hardcore Franky is starting lifting and 6 months into lifting he is squatting 155 for 12 reps as his max effort.....he is not a very strong dude to start.
Lazy Johnny is a naturally strong kid and 6 months into lifting is squatting 365 for 10 reps.....wow thats pretty good for a kid starting out.
They are both about the same bodyweight and height but Johnny is alot stronger

4 years goes by and Franky has blasted food, supplements, steroids, and his training and is now doing 455 x 20 reps in the squat.....he has gained 300 pounds and 8 more reps on his top end squat

4 years goes by and lazy johnny blasted food supplements steroids but went by "feel" in his training and now squats 405 x 10 reps in the squat....he has gained only 40 pounds in his squat

Who do you think is going to have far more gains in leg size from when they started?!?! Franky gained 300 pounds is repping 20 reps with 455.....Johnny gained 60 pounds on his squat.....Franky's quads have grown by leaps and bounds! Johnny? Not so much.

There is a big difference in absolute strength and "strength gains over time"

3) Take 2 twins and put each on a deserted island. They both have the same food supply. Ill give your guy 185 pounds of weights and he can go by "feel" and do drop sets for the next 12 years.
I am going to give my twin unlimited amounts of weight and his goals over the next 12 years is this

incline press 405 x 15 reps
military press 355 x 15 reps
close grip bench press 405 x 12 reps
squat 455 x 20 reps
standing calf 750 x 20 reps
stiff legged deads for 15-20 reps with alot of weight
deadlift 505 x 15 reps
weighted chins with as much weight as he can do 15 reps with
bicep curls 225 x 20 reps

he might not reach those goals but he is going to try his best to accomplish them.

My gilligan twin is going to dwarf your gilligan

-----------

My and Homonuncleus's trainee Dave Henry wins his pro card at 162 lbs in 2002....I put him on DC training and its now "Beat the logbook or die" for the next 8 years and he now has to lose muscle to make the 202 class and could easily compete at 212 most likely nowadays. So that guy (after he gets his pro card) gains about 50 pounds of muscle mass training shit heavy.

------------------------

4) Black guys seem to gain no matter what they do....they have the genetics for this endeavor we call bodybuilding. You go look at the pro ranks where everyone has access to a bunch of drugs and its pretty much an even playing field......what separates the black guys with elite genetics?

Three black guys with similiar elite genetics.....all the same height

Flex Wheeler
Chris Cormier
Ronnie Coleman

They are all using the same compounds....some more than others (love to blow that story wide open but I cant....you can kind of guess what it was about since it would probably shock you)

Wheeler trains lighter and goes by feel.....highest competitive weight is 220's and i think he hit the 230's once.

Cormier trains heavy....known for being one of the stronger bodybuilders on inclines and pressing movements....competes in the 250's and I believe 263 was his highest competitive weight

Ronnie Coleman...just a g'damn beast....trained with weights that a forklift is scared of....ridiculous....805 deadlifts, 800 squats, t-bar rows with 45's falling off the end, 200 pound flat bench dumbells for 12 reps....you allready know the deal......highest competitive weight is 303 pounds at the russian grand prix and wins olympias at 287 and 296 pounds.

Is it tough to figure out the deal there on what is making such a huge difference in muscle mass?

----------------

White guys in bodybuilding.....Sorry but we arent on the same level as the brothers most of the time......you dont usually hear people talk about white guys who just go in and do 3 sets of barbell curls and talk on the phone and get 20 inch arms like you do about black guys. It is what it is and its the direct reason these message boards arent chalk full of younger black guys wondering "man how the heck do i get bigger?!!!!!".....Black guys usually dont have that huge problem until they get up to a huge size and then at that point they have to figure out (like the rest of us mortals) how to eke out a little more size.

I digress.....white guys in bodybuilding.....lets use the pro's again....even playing field.....who is big and thick?

Dorian (shit heavy weights) separated himself from the pack
Branch (shit heavy weights) thick as a brick
Mike Francois was (shit heavy weights) came from powerlifting background and made himself monstrous
Tom Prince was (shit heavy weights) ridiculously heavy weights and ridiculous size
Lee Preist (known for using bigtime poundages) huge for his height
Markus Ruhl (watch his DVD and you tell me) 405 inclines and everything but a refrigerator on the leg press

I mean even Cutler who built most of his size when he was younger and hasnt done much but refine over the last many years, but for some reason has a reputation that he doesnt train heavy....... but 405 for bent over rows is light? Thats not light in my book and neither is some of the other movements he does in extremely strict form.

I guess if within your first year of lifting you have 20 inch arms like Dillett did or can win the teen national heavyweights after 18 months of lifting like Cutler did....you can pretty much tell me to fuck off because your genetics are so fantastic....no matter what you do, you get bigger.....but for everyone else......like someone else allready said "take note of the weights and reps you are using for the next 2 weeks in all the movements you do"....if in 2-5 years you are still using those same weights for the same reps on those movements.....take it to the bank you arent going to be much bigger than you are right now.

Your genetics are going to limit you to what you can accomplish in this sport......no matter what you do...... if a higher power came down and said "Son im giving you the best training, drug, diet, supplement routine know to me (god) to get you as big as possible" and you are destined at the top end to have an arm that is 19.5 inches and no bigger.....thats what you are going to have because the genetics mom and pop gave you determine that.

But for the guys who think progressively heavier weights mean nothing, I'll guarentee you this.....the day you squat 500 lbs for 20 deep reps safely and the trip it took to get there (nutritionally and the diet to get muscularly larger continually, supplements, and super supplements) will NOT be the day you look at your legs and think they are skinny.
 
Why I always see the strongest guy’s are the smaller one in the Gym.... I’m talking about body builder her......Make you wonder?
 

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