when to start gh?

[diskey]

My body seems not to respond to 1,2g steroids weekly anymore and I dont want to up the doses much more.

I've been bulking since September and I seem to stagnate pretty bad now. My weight is 215 and waist is 32". Last winter I managed to get up to almost 245lbs but then my waist was 37". My arms hasn't grown since summer, and even not on 750testo ew and 50mg adrol ed. I've tried almost everything giving them more/less rest. High volume, HIT etc. If I train them hard they get very sore but dosen't grow at all. They're 17,8" with veins compared to 18,8" without last winter.

I feel that if I eat any more that I do now I will just go fat. I eat about 300g protein 500g carb and 100g fat daily, not counting. I'm 21 years old, and have used steroids for about 2 years. Am I ready to advance to GH now? or is there other things I should try before??

 

[hikneeken]

have you used for 2 years straight?

 

[edge250]

1-2g per week @ 215 age 21 and not growing. something is definetly wrong there and gh is not the answer

 

[bigbaldbulldog]

1-2g per week @ 215 age 21 and not growing. something is definetly wrong there and gh is not the answer

Ditto and i want to add...

You started using way to young and did not meet your natural potential first of all...

Second.... for your age you are using waaaaay toooo much gear.....GH is not answer at this point

Third.... Get off the juice for atleast a year and train naturally to see how far you can take your body without the drugs... steroids should be the last step you take when trying to grow...

You should of trained atleast till age 25-30 before using... i understand you wanted to get as big as possible but in the process you sold yourself out and short, you'll never know what you could of done naturally, which i suspect would be around 230-240lbs, then you should of gotten on then you could of added another 20-30 lbs ...you shut your body down and now all it wanst is juice to grow...

get off teh juice and train naturally to get your body on track then go for the gold..

 

[BigBis]

Ditto and i want to add...

You started using way to young and did not meet your natural potential first of all...

Second.... for your age you are using waaaaay toooo much gear.....GH is not answer at this point

Third.... Get off the juice for atleast a year and train naturally to see how far you can take your body without the drugs... steroids should be the last step you take when trying to grow...

You should of trained atleast till age 25-30 before using... i understand you wanted to get as big as possible but in the process you sold yourself out and short, you'll never know what you could of done naturally, which i suspect would be around 230-240lbs, then you should of gotten on then you could of added another 20-30 lbs ...you shut your body down and now all it wanst is juice to grow...

get off teh juice and train naturally to get your body on track then go for the gold..

that's a very good point, and I'm sure not what you wanted to hear...at this point it's going to be very hard to get off, or stay off I should say....do a structured PCT program, get your nuts and natural test production going again, train hard and eat lots of protein...listen to your body, if it's not responding to what you've been doing, it's time for a break...
good luck.........

PEACE BigBis

 

[phreak]

i agree with the above posts.

come clean and sort out your HPTA, check your diet and training, and start over.

 

[diskey]

Well that wasn't exactly the feedbacks I was hoping for. Plz don't take for a newbie just because I don't grow. I've trained for 5 years and I'm very well educated in about most aspects of drug use except gh, just take a look at my earlier post on this site. I trained naturally for 3 years and got to my maximum natural limit at 182 lbs. I didn't grow for over a half year before I started drugs and trust me this was my natural max, I've allways been studying training principles and dieting from the very begining, and consulted several people about advice.

But anyway I didn't expect to get so ignorant answers on this board because I know there is a lot of people here wich are very advanced in bb. When I ask a question like the one in this thread I take it for granted that you people understand that I'm SERIOUS, and don't start flaming me.

What the **** is up with getting to 240 lbs naturally ?!?! I'm just laughting at you. I'm a normal guy with avargage genetics. Not even a top pro would get to that weight naturally at my height 5 10".


Going of steroids for a year hehe ?! what the ****? I've been more on than off the last two years. And trust my my natural limit is around 180lbs, my body will for sure force me down there again if I go off over too long time.

I'm well educated in hpta recovery and when I go off I follow this regime which I would recommand to you other guys also:

17 days before I've calculated that my test levels will be low enought to start clomid, I start shooting 500iu hcg for 10 days. Low doses of hcg because too high would damaging natural LH production. The hcg has a half life of about 3-4 days so the 7 days after the last shot will drive the hcg out of my system. You don't want any active hcg in your body when using clomid since hcg is artifical LH hormon and clomid is a drug wich stimulates the brain to produce more natural LH hormon. After the seven days I do clomid 300-100-50 over 3 weeks along with 10-20 nolva. after this I use some kind of natural testo booster like z-force with NAC,Tribulus, and the usual zma formula for 30 days. Then I check my levels at the doc, and if thing is as they should I go on again.


If you don't have any advice except going off and train naturally and your too young blablabla, don't even bother posting. I need advices and 215lbs with a 32" waist and 5 10" tall isn't bad as far as I know. I'm going to compete in the spring or autumn next year, a lot of people have been asking why I don't allready do . again I have never used more than 1,1-1,2g aas weekly.

 

[diskey]

Well that wasn't exactly the feedbacks I was hoping for. Plz don't take for a newbie just because I don't grow. I've trained for 5 years and I'm very well educated in about most aspects of drug use except gh, just take a look at my earlier post on this site. I trained naturally for 3 years and got to my maximum natural limit at 182 lbs. I didn't grow for over a half year before I started drugs and trust me this was my natural max, I've allways been studying training principles and dieting from the very begining, and consulted several people about advice.

But anyway I didn't expect to get so ignorant answers on this board because I know there is a lot of people here wich are very advanced in bb. When I ask a question like the one in this thread I take it for granted that you people understand that I'm SERIOUS, and don't start flaming me.

What the **** is up with getting to 240 lbs naturally ?!?! I'm just laughting at you. I'm a normal guy with avargage genetics. Not even a top pro would get to that weight naturally at my height 5 10".


Going of steroids for a year hehe ?! what the ****? I've been more on than off the last two years. And trust my my natural limit is around 180lbs, my body will for sure force me down there again if I go off over too long time.

I'm well educated in hpta recovery and when I go off I follow this regime which I would recommand to you other guys also:

17 days before I've calculated that my test levels will be low enought to start clomid, I start shooting 500iu hcg for 10 days. Low doses of hcg because too high would damaging natural LH production. The hcg has a half life of about 3-4 days so the 7 days after the last shot will drive the hcg out of my system. You don't want any active hcg in your body when using clomid since hcg is artifical LH hormon and clomid is a drug wich stimulates the brain to produce more natural LH hormon. After the seven days I do clomid 300-100-50 over 3 weeks along with 10-20 nolva. after this I use some kind of natural testo booster like z-force with NAC,Tribulus, and the usual zma formula for 30 days. Then I check my levels at the doc, and if thing is as they should I go on again.


If you don't have any advice except going off and train naturally and your too young blablabla, don't even bother posting. I need advices and 215lbs with a 32" waist and 5 10" tall isn't bad as far as I know. I'm going to compete in the spring or autumn next year, a lot of people have been asking why I don't allready do . again I have never used more than 1,1-1,2g aas weekly.

 

[jahras12]

im totally on your boat bro, but these guys are right, they are not looking to flame you, they are looking to help, cuz in the end, you will ruin your life if you keep on the high dosges and eating the same thing day in and day out,you will burn out, I am 20 and I was doing the same thing, high doasges, then cruising, worked great,but where am I gonna go from there 4 g's test? gh?slin? at 22? then by 30 ill have to be using insane amounts. but one thing works better for growing, food and training, once I got my training and eating into perspective which I hired a trainer for I gained a lot more size, am staying somewhat lean, eating normally, training right, and using a lot less gear and growing a hell of a lot more...more is not better, look at long term, how are you gonna be in this in 10 years, 20 years, i cant see myself eating the same chicken and rice dish every day for 10 years, aint worth it, and a lot has to do with genetics. Live your life, but to answer your question more test will make you grow better than gh and slin in my opinion, gh and slin are finisher drugs or plateu busters for the advanced athletes, at our age, test, deca, dbol, basics are the best and most importantly food will make you grow once you start to eat normally again, its unreal what happens when you listen to your body and stop counting calories and macros. sorry to write this, because you may get even more pissed after reading your last post, but also I dont think you have to come off, just kick down the dosage and get some guidance, so you can let your mind relax, even in the offseason.

 

[diskey]

Okey, I think your answer was good actually. But I just don't see what I could be doing wrong really. Last winter I tried to max all out and see how big I could get. I went high protein almost 500g daily and eat a good 1000-1500kcal over maintain just to make sure my diet wasn't affecting my growth in any negative way. As I stated I weighted almost 250 lbs at my max and people couldn't belive how big I've got, a lot of people went to me for advices and when I posted pictures at national boards people thought it was incredible what I've achived at my age. Then I dieted pretty hard this summer and went down about 30 lbs and got a lean ripped look, but it was a little hard to accept that what I really had left from the winter bulk was 8-10lbs lean muscle mass. I took a two month break in July/August and went completly off, I lowered my protein a bit and downed my traing frequency to let my body get a good rest. I then assumed that when in Sept went on 750mg sust and upped the protein again my body would be shocked to growth pretty good. I gained back my lost mass from the dieting and got to 215 in about 8 weeks. I then stagnated bad for 3 weeks and tried adding adrol but it didn't do a shit. All I feel now is that I'm at what I was last winter at 250lbs minus the fat. I have veins on legs,arms and shoulders and my abs are visible. Friends keep telling me now that I probably have reached my limit at the dosages I'm using and have to up things to get any bigger. I've heard several people stagnate bad at 210-220 lbs then add gh/slin and advance to 240 lbs lean in one bulk season. So it's quite tempting...

 

[jahras12]

yes, I work at a gym also and people that i train with also tell me if I add some gh and slin and igf, to the mix I could be amazing with the size aquired so far at 20, and be still get leaner and bigger, etc, etc...but its just time and consistency and genetics man nothin else, and you and I both got to pay our dues, if you have the cash to spend on gh and slin, go for it and if you want to do it real bad, do it, but Id take the money and invest it on someone to make the decisions for you who has been there, and has done the bodybuilding thing and has done well- they will tell you when to take gh, how much, how much slin, how to train, when to diet, etc. To tell you thruthfully, before getting guidance bodybuilding was on my head all day it was nuts, but its worth it to pay the cash to have someone guide you so you know you are doing things right, instead of contemplating it day in and day out. Think about long term, the people who do that stuff now will have nowhere to go later.Also when you gained im sure you just ate everything and trained heavy, so how are you gonna gain again, do the same thing, right? Train heavy eat big to gain, it aint worth being lean all year round if you want to gain some muscle, thats why it is called offseason

 

[Cman34677]

1-2g per week @ 215 age 21 and not growing. something is definetly wrong there and gh is not the answer

more food...

done

Cman

 

[BigBis]

listen bro, I'm in no way trying to flame you....but if you don't think you will never have to come "off" your in for a big surprise..especially after being on for a couple years, I've been on for almost 2yrs. with small 4 to 6 week PCT intervals... then back on but I've also stayed on HGH except for small breaks here and there....when your taking 150mg of anadrol every day and not gaining any weight then it's time for a break..that doesn't mean forever, just give your receptors some time to rest...I've had good success with IGF1 during PCT....
this was posted by patriots and it may help.....

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I have been BB and competing for the twenty one years, and I am still on the scene. my friend, I consider myseld as one of the best in the business. I am in the process of realigning my life and priorities with family in all, but I have some pretty good recommendations for ya.

start your cycle initially for about 12 weeks like so;
wk1-5 Winny 40-70 mgs
wk 1-12 test enan or cyp 750-250mg tapering the dosages
{wk1-4 test 1000, wk5-8 750, wk9-12 500}
wk1-12 deca
{wk1-4 600mg, wk5-8 400, wk9-12 200-300mg}
during week 3, 6, 9, 12 use HCG@ 2-5k iu

wk 13-16 test enan/ cyp@250 mg per week
with Dbol@ 40-60mg or whatever dosages you are use to
IGF1 @40-60mcg per day
using hGH @2-6iu per day or 5/2 whichever
HCG@ 2-5k iu starting @week 18

wk17-wk22
Sus250@ 1ml eod to ed
tren ace or hex@75-100mg eod or ed
wk23 HCG 5kiu with clomid 100mg
wk24clomid 100mg
wk25 clomid 50mg

wk23-35
any test product of ur choice mg of choice
not over a gram with LA or SA esters
EQ tapered 800 to 200mg
winny inj 4-600mg per week
using HCG every 3 weeks @5iu per week
HGH 2-6iu per day or 5/2

wk36-45
test prop inj eod or ed
test cyp or enan@1-200mg week as a maintenance LA ester
wk36-41 tren enan 300-500mg per week
wk36-41 anavar or halo 30-60mg per week
hcg weeks 38, 41, 44,45

wk46-52
primobolan 3-600mg per week
only SA test esters inj eod to ed
masteron 300-600mg
proviron 25-50g per day throughout
hard on the hairline but each individual can determine this
t-3's as needed
HGH2-8 ius per day or 5/2

after this I would float test enan/ cyp@ 250mg eow for 2 months as a type of PCt and HRT

use HCG @7500k iu every week for three weeks with clomid and anti e therapy through this time

Anti e's are to be used throughout a the users discretion
only a sample, i have used something similar to this for three years straight, I constently gained and loss weight as needed until I literally gave Lee P***** and others hell.

It has to be a commitment
med exams, blood work, consistent dietary eating. get various meds you need to regulate bodily functions at ur discretion.

any other ?????? lmk

PEACE BigBis

 

[JETHRO TULL]

THE BIGGEST YOU COULD GET NATURALLY WAS 180LBS??

THERE ARE JUNIORS AND SENIORS IN MY CLASSES WHO DON'T EVEN LIFT WEIGHTS AND THEY WEIGHT 180LBS. I AM NOT BEING A JERK. I JUST DON'T BELIEVE 180LBS IS AS LARGE AS A GUY WHO IS 5'10IN. TALL CAN GET.

THAT'S JUST YOU TELLING YOURSELF BIG STORIES TO JUSTIFY YOUR DRUG USE AT AN EARLY AGE. DON'T WORRY THOUGH...EVERYONE IS IN A BIG HURRY.

 

[bigbaldbulldog]

Dude know one is flaming you we are looking out for your best interest...Here is what i do know..

#1 your 21 and have been on for 2 years...

#2 you said you have lifted for 5 years so that makes you 16 when you started....

#3 if you got up to 245 on your last cycle and now your 215lbs you lost way to much weight or lost a 30lbs of water....

#4 at 5ft 11in at 215 you have atleast 20-30 lbs of natural growth to go because you started taking drugs at such a early age...if you started lifting at 16 you had to atleast ATLEAST 25 till you should of thought about juice..

I am pretty sure and confident that you were undernourished or overtrained or both when you started the drugs use...


#5 We all have been anxious and over zelous but i really think you did not give yourself enough credit and time....

#6 Your natural Test levels are super-high at age 16-20 so you should of been growing like a weed if your training/diet/rest were all inline..

#7 The dosage levels were too high for anyone of that age unless your blood test showed you at a superlow level...I know many guys who never ever use 1500mgs let alone 2000mgs...

WE ALL CARE ABOUT EVERYONE ON HERE AND IF YOU TAKE THE TIME TO LOOK AROUND AND LISTEN YOU'LL SEE THAT... WE CARE ABOUT YOU WEATHER OR NOT YOU REALIZE IT....

BEST WISHES AND GOOD LUCK HANG IN THERE TRUST US...

 

[BALDNAZI]

Arrogance is not a virtue

You claim that some responses are ignorant,wrong approach brother.At your age,I know its easy to think you have the world by the balls and your the shit,but guess what?You have alot to learn.

What everyone is saying is not a flame.The advice is actually correct,in no way was your natural limit 180lbs.No freaking way.Your training and diet must be way off.I know 18-20 yr old powerlifters in my gym that are clean and way over 200lbs and they are shorter then you.The difference is they do heavy compound power lifts and eat like animals.And they are not fat either,maybe 10-15%BF.

Gear is a tool,its not the solution.You would be doing yourself a huge favor if you take our advice.Come off,do a serious PCT and train natural for at least a couple more years.It sounds like your receptors are shot,you need the break.Trust me,you will be the happest guy around if you do this.It will suck at first,but after a month or 2 you will be fine.And when you go back on at around 220 natural,you will blow up.

This is not a flame,but you need to reavaluate your current situation.Slow and steady wins the race,trust me....

 

[Crowler]

Dude know one is flaming you we are looking out for your best interest...Here is what i do know..

#1 your 21 and have been on for 2 years...

#2 you said you have lifted for 5 years so that makes you 16 when you started....

#3 if you got up to 245 on your last cycle and now your 215lbs you lost way to much weight or lost a 30lbs of water....

#4 at 5ft 11in at 215 you have atleast 20-30 lbs of natural growth to go because you started taking drugs at such a early age...if you started lifting at 16 you had to atleast ATLEAST 25 till you should of thought about juice..

I am pretty sure and confident that you were undernourished or overtrained or both when you started the drugs use...


#5 We all have been anxious and over zelous but i really think you did not give yourself enough credit and time....

#6 Your natural Test levels are super-high at age 16-20 so you should of been growing like a weed if your training/diet/rest were all inline..

#7 The dosage levels were too high for anyone of that age unless your blood test showed you at a superlow level...I know many guys who never ever use 1500mgs let alone 2000mgs...

WE ALL CARE ABOUT EVERYONE ON HERE AND IF YOU TAKE THE TIME TO LOOK AROUND AND LISTEN YOU'LL SEE THAT... WE CARE ABOUT YOU WEATHER OR NOT YOU REALIZE IT....

BEST WISHES AND GOOD LUCK HANG IN THERE TRUST US...

BBB, I applaud you for your calm and rational reply. Nice job bro.


CROWLER

 

[bigbaldbulldog]

BBB, I applaud you for your calm and rational reply. Nice job bro.


CROWLER

Thank you Crowler..

I have been lifting since i was 13 years old at 85 lbs...Yes 85 lbs

i graduated at 5ft 3in 135 lbs...in 1985 ( now i am 5ft 6 in)

i competed from 1990-1997 at 152lbs in 1990-1992 then 176lb in 1993-1997

i never got over 190lbs no matter what i ate or did..

I met Phil in person in July 2004 and while we drove to Penn. about 3 times at about 12 hours a trip. We talked alot about nutrition and diet and he came up with a program for me..

i started his plan in July of 2004 and by Dec 2004 (5months) at 195lbs and in 5 months i weight 220lbs... i trained less did less sets and ate more protein from different sources...and i used soem of the nutrition lines he had at his gym...i never heard of them but they did work...

What can i say..Phil did to me in 5 months what i coudl not do in 6 years prior to meeting him...Ohh did i mention i was drug free...all was doen with food,supps and diet and training no steroids at all...

 

[BigBis]

Thank you Crowler..

I have been lifting since i was 13 years old at 85 lbs...Yes 85 lbs

i graduated at 5ft 3in 135 lbs...in 1985 ( now i am 5ft 6 in)

i competed from 1990-1997 at 152lbs in 1990-1992 then 176lb in 1993-1997

i never got over 190lbs no matter what i ate or did..

I met Phil in person in July 2004 and while we drove to Penn. about 3 times at about 12 hours a trip. We talked alot about nutrition and diet and he came up with a program for me..

i started his plan in July of 2004 and by Dec 2004 (5months) at 195lbs and in 5 months i weight 220lbs... i trained less did less sets and ate more protein from different sources...and i used soem of the nutrition lines he had at his gym...i never heard of them but they did work...

What can i say..Phil did to me in 5 months what i coudl not do in 6 years prior to meeting him...Ohh did i mention i was drug free...all was doen with food,supps and diet and training no steroids at all...

I'm with ya on this one bro, no drug will take the place of diet and training, that's why I bow down to everyone out there that's earned their pro card...I don't give a crap how much SEO's, AAS, GH or whatever their doin..because that's not what got them that card, grueling training sessions, proper nutrition and determination got them that card...no doubt the drugs helped, but they couldn't have gotten where they are on drugs alone......

PEACE BigBis

 

[BigMatt]

Shit im 21,5.11 standing at 210,I never use Gear,lifetime Natural.
Sure im not 8%BF Ripped to shreds,But i can see Cut in my Quads and my waist is tight,around 33.

You need to Eat More.
Cals in,Cals Out.