Which do you prefer CJC Dac or CJC NO Dac

[johnjuanb1]

Been using dac at 450mcg for the last week and honestly I like mod a lot better. Dac seems to elevate my heart rate. I want to go back to mod 129 how long should I wait seeing I dosed dac last night?

I would wait a few days. DAC is in you for a long time but I'm not good at waiting for things. I just took 1mg cjcDAC with 100mcg hexarelin. My heart rate didn't increase. I guess my body got used to adding DAC in.

 

[johnjuanb1]

The best thing about cjc without dac is the affordability when stacking it with ghrp2. 100mcg of each 3 times a day and you are good to go.

 

[Thebigone]

I've got an igf test scheduled for tomorrow. I have been on 500mcg cjc Dac for about 8 days now. I know exactly where my IGF levels should be with the other peptides and HGH I am using so I'm wondering if only eight days is enough to increase them more. We shall see.

Well this is odd. Igf before was 366 now it's 282. Same amount of gh only addition was the added 10mg mk677 and 3500mcg cjc with Dac per week. Only thing I can think of was before I was doing the gh about 1/2 IM and 1/2 subQ but since starting the cjc I just did IM. But that's still a pretty diff change. I think I'll give the cjc 2 more weeks, do another igf test and assess from there.

 

[johnjuanb1]

Well this is odd. Igf before was 366 now it's 282. Same amount of gh only addition was the added 10mg mk677 and 3500mcg cjc with Dac per week. Only thing I can think of was before I was doing the gh about 1/2 IM and 1/2 subQ but since starting the cjc I just did IM. But that's still a pretty diff change. I think I'll give the cjc 2 more weeks, do another igf test and assess from there.

Subcutaneous exogenous HGH has the highest conversion to IGF1.

That is very odd though. I would expect IGF1 to go up since in the HGH testing thread the addition of MK677 and cjc/GHRP made igf1 go up significantly.
It so hard to figure all this stuff out, especially since everyone's body is different and has a host of different things going on in it.

Are you on anything that could lower IGF1 like a prolactin blocker?

 

[Thebigone]

Subcutaneous exogenous HGH has the highest conversion to IGF1.

That is very odd though. I would expect IGF1 to go up since in the HGH testing thread the addition of MK677 and cjc/GHRP made igf1 go up significantly.
It so hard to figure all this stuff out, especially since everyone's body is different and has a host of different things going on in it.

Are you on anything that could lower IGF1 like a prolactin blocker?

Nope that's the other thing I have been off caber for a long time now and my prolactin levels finally returned to normal yet there was no increase in IGF. I wonder how accurate these lab tests really are? I got my liver checked the same day by two different labs quest and labcorp literally 10min apart and ALT and AST were off by 20 points each. And the ranges were the same. Also I've been using the same batch of test for a few months now and I last tested at like 1800 using 375mg/wk split in 3 doses shot IM. The past few weeks I switched over to doing subQ shots 6 days per week in smaller doses still using the same weekly amount after reading that subQ is the way to go and my levels came back at 940.

 

[johnjuanb1]

Nope that's the other thing I have been off caber for a long time now and my prolactin levels finally returned to normal yet there was no increase in IGF. I wonder how accurate these lab tests really are? I got my liver checked the same day by two different labs quest and labcorp literally 10min apart and ALT and AST were off by 20 points each. And the ranges were the same. Also I've been using the same batch of test for a few months now and I last tested at like 1800 using 375mg/wk split in 3 doses shot IM. The past few weeks I switched over to doing subQ shots 6 days per week in smaller doses still using the same weekly amount after reading that subQ is the way to go and my levels came back at 940.

I've never done subQ AAS shots. Most shots cause swelling which I don't want under the skin. I have switched to using a Slin pin for AAS 1/2" deep in the glute, 27 gauge. It's easy this way.

That's interesting to know numbers vary so much. We put so much in to these numbers as meaning everything.
I believe IGF1 scores higher if you're eating a high fat, high calorie diet with lots of cholesterol.

 

[RamboStallone]

Diet can be a factor here. Has diet been the same?

 

[Thebigone]

Diet can be a factor here. Has diet been the same?

Almost identical

 

[Elvia1023]

Almost identical

That's the thing it's almost identical but I doubt there are many people on this planet who eat the same foods at the same times month after month. I have heard many guys say to me my diet is exactly the same when we are talking about aas, cutting, bulking, test results etc and I often think is it really. I have pretty much been eating the same foods for awhile but my diet is definitely not the same day to day.

Bloodwork over many months needs to be looked at from a distance in a sense. Nothing should be looked at exact. Meaning if IGF-1 is a little lower it doesn't automatically mean something has gone wrong. The number fluctuations through the days/weeks/months. The liver can have a major effect on everything so then comes diet, drugs used, training, stress etc.

Now if you get tested again on the same drugs and an almost identical diet in 1 month and your igf-1 is lower again you know there is an issue and changes need to be made. Although I always recommend running things in cycles so I wouldn't stay on the same things for too long.

 

[Thebigone]

That's the thing it's almost identical but I doubt there are many people on this planet who eat the same foods at the same times month after month. I have heard many guys say to me my diet is exactly the same when we are talking about aas, cutting, bulking, test results etc and I often think is it really. I have pretty much been eating the same foods for awhile but my diet is definitely not the same day to day.

Bloodwork over many months needs to be looked at from a distance in a sense. Nothing should be looked at exact. Meaning if IGF-1 is a little lower it doesn't automatically mean something has gone wrong. The number fluctuations through the days/weeks/months. The liver can have a major effect on everything so then comes diet, drugs used, training, stress etc.

Now if you get tested again on the same drugs and an almost identical diet in 1 month and your igf-1 is lower again you know there is an issue and changes need to be made. Although I always recommend running things in cycles so I wouldn't stay on the same things for too long.

Agree. Plus there are many lab errors. I had liver bloods done once at 2 diff labs in the same building about 15min apart from each other. Same reference range yet alt and ast were almost 20points diff each.

 

[DrK]

wow looking at the poll results right now and I'm shocked to see this. 6 months ago no one was openly anyway talking or logging there DAC research, it was all about how the bleed wasn't good for you and how ghrp/modgrf 100mcg 3x's a day was the best protocol. I'm just wondering if this is a jump on the bandwagon and use DAC cause a couple of guys praise it and say how the guys at "Gold's Venice" are all using it.

No, you were correct. The bleed is bad and it is all broscience in here. I will comment on how the science of a continuous pulse of GH just doesn't work, I get it, most ppl do not want to inject multiple times, But what you have to think is, if your afraid of a needle should you be doing this at all?

 

[DrK]

Sorry, the science just is not there with CJC w/DAC

I enjoyed seeing the vote results, very interesting view. I am sorry to say but the science just is not there. CJC 1295 w/DAC may cause a prolonged GH secretions and most of you (as usual) assume more is better. This is not the case with hormones like GH. This is because there is a negative feedback loop at every stage along the way of this process. The secretion of GHRH inhibits further secretion, then the secretion of GH from the pituitary actually inhibits further secretion of GH and even causes secretion of somatiostatin which further inhibits continuous GH secretion. The the GH generates the production of somatomedins (IGF-1), then IGF-1 inhibits further secretions. Not only that but when you eat, the insulin secretion inhibits GH.

So as you can see there is no added benefit to the continuous secretion, perhaps just burnout.

I would say and I believe it is backed up clinically in rats that mod GRF1-29 and a GHRP would be FAR superior as far as lean body mass is concerned. GHRP2 has no ceiling dose and receptors as less likely to get sensitized to GHRP2.

Please, before you believe the bro science try to consult an expert rather then someone who is just experimenting.

Oh, and I am a M.D.

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CE9ibzAUkJ0"]Dr. Kwaz GHRP/GHRH - YouTube[/ame]

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CE9ibzAUkJ0"]Dr. Kwaz GHRP/GHRH - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Smack]

I enjoyed seeing the vote results, very interesting view. I am sorry to say but the science just is not there. CJC 1295 w/DAC may cause a prolonged GH secretions and most of you (as usual) assume more is better. This is not the case with hormones like GH. This is because there is a negative feedback loop at every stage along the way of this process. The secretion of GHRH inhibits further secretion, then the secretion of GH from the pituitary actually inhibits further secretion of GH and even causes secretion of somatiostatin which further inhibits continuous GH secretion. The the GH generates the production of somatomedins (IGF-1), then IGF-1 inhibits further secretions. Not only that but when you eat, the insulin secretion inhibits GH.

So as you can see there is no added benefit to the continuous secretion, perhaps just burnout.

I would say and I believe it is backed up clinically in rats that mod GRF1-29 and a GHRP would be FAR superior as far as lean body mass is concerned. GHRP2 has no ceiling dose and receptors as less likely to get sensitized to GHRP2.

Please, before you believe the bro science try to consult an expert rather then someone who is just experimenting.

Oh, and I am a M.D.

Dr. Kwaz GHRP/GHRH - YouTube

Dr. Kwaz GHRP/GHRH - YouTube

And if you take a somatisin inhibitor....?

 

[slinpin]

I enjoyed seeing the vote results, very interesting view. I am sorry to say but the science just is not there. CJC 1295 w/DAC may cause a prolonged GH secretions and most of you (as usual) assume more is better. This is not the case with hormones like GH. This is because there is a negative feedback loop at every stage along the way of this process. The secretion of GHRH inhibits further secretion, then the secretion of GH from the pituitary actually inhibits further secretion of GH and even causes secretion of somatiostatin which further inhibits continuous GH secretion. The the GH generates the production of somatomedins (IGF-1), then IGF-1 inhibits further secretions. Not only that but when you eat, the insulin secretion inhibits GH.

So as you can see there is no added benefit to the continuous secretion, perhaps just burnout.

I would say and I believe it is backed up clinically in rats that mod GRF1-29 and a GHRP would be FAR superior as far as lean body mass is concerned. GHRP2 has no ceiling dose and receptors as less likely to get sensitized to GHRP2.

Please, before you believe the bro science try to consult an expert rather then someone who is just experimenting.

Oh, and I am a M.D.

Dr. Kwaz GHRP/GHRH - YouTube

Dr. Kwaz GHRP/GHRH - YouTube

Yeah I'm surprised with the poll results too. No DAC with GHRP 3x per day has given me far better lean gains than with DAC.

 

[HGHKITS.COM]

CJC WITH DAC

CJC WITH DAC

What has given you the best results? I have only used non Dac (Mod grf) but have been reading some promising things about CJC Dac. How much have you researched with?

 

[digbick]

i'd go with cjc no dac..

think about it,you're already going to pin multiple times with ghrp so why not include the cjc in there as well...and if not mistaken you dont need to cycle off cjc no dac as opposed to cjc dac?

 

[liv2pb]

I know this is old but does anyone have thoughts on what Dr k posted?

http://press.endocrine.org/doi/full/10.1210/jc.2006-1702?queryID=%24{resultBean.queryID}

I believe this study shows that cjc dac doesn't overwork the pituitary and cause a "bleed" or burnout. Also Dr k says that through the negative feedback loop cjc dac will ultimately be defeated by somastatin. How is that possible when a ghrp is administered throughout the day? I know he says aother stuff about the negative feedback loop but it went over my head. I just noticed that nobody said shit after he posted lol

 

[BioBuild]

Yeah I'm surprised with the poll results too. No DAC with GHRP 3x per day has given me far better lean gains than with DAC.

Same here, I see no reason to switch honestly

 

[RamboStallone]

I know this is old but does anyone have thoughts on what Dr k posted?

http://press.endocrine.org/doi/full/10.1210/jc.2006-1702?queryID=%24{resultBean.queryID}

I believe this study shows that cjc dac doesn't overwork the pituitary and cause a "bleed" or burnout. Also Dr k says that through the negative feedback loop cjc dac will ultimately be defeated by somastatin. How is that possible when a ghrp is administered throughout the day? I know he says aother stuff about the negative feedback loop but it went over my head. I just noticed that nobody said shit after he posted lol

Ghrps still pulse even in the presence of somatostatin, however he is correct the ghrh effects would diminish. That's why it's better to combine the ghrp and ghrh, this will always result in a better response. In the studies, they showed the ghrp/ghrh worked in the presence of somatostatin better then either alone.

 

[keilbasaking]

Greats results with ghrp-2/cjc mod in the past. Especially for fat loss. I've read many say that cjc with dac is better, which my test animal is currently experimenting with and the results so far are decent muscle growth/size, more water retention but the fat loss has been no where near the same. Diet on point as usual. Protocol is 2mg every 4th day. Anything I should do differently?