Which is better?

Coopie · Nov 1, 2004

Again, everyone responds differently but here's my thoughts...

I have had my best (and most lasting) gains from "longer" cycles. By longer I mean 6 - 9 months. There's a pretty well-known bodybuilding "personality" here on Long Island that once told me something which made good sense to me. He said "the longer muscle resides on your body, the more your body is able to keep it (post-cycle)".

Here's his theory... If you quickly gain 15-20 lbs and then go "off", the muscle has not had any permanency on your frame. It is newly-acquired and foreign. However, if it's on your frame for months then your body has adapted to it, and has an affinity for keeping the stasis that you're in.

He has the same belief for fat also. Gain a few lbs of fat, easy to lose. Got a few lbs of fat on you for months, harder to shed.

As I said, it made sense to me so I applied it. I can't complain!

BigBoyJ · Nov 2, 2004

That's how I feel about it too, Coopie. It's all about homeostasis. I don't like the yoyo syndrome and I honestly don't see how anyone can maintain anything like that.

massxpress · Nov 2, 2004

short and heavy..3-5 on 2-3 off..I have seen it work wonders, your actually off quite a bit and there's a little more to whAT THINGS YOU TAKE. but I think short bursts are best. Ok then it's settled.

Geoffke · Nov 2, 2004

massxpress said:
short and heavy..3-5 on 2-3 off..I have seen it work wonders, your actually off quite a bit and there's a little more to whAT THINGS YOU TAKE. but I think short bursts are best. Ok then it's settled.

But , when you take off, do you begin PTC then after week 5?

monster_mass · Nov 2, 2004

temporarily "permanent"?

Coopie said:
Again, everyone responds differently but here's my thoughts...

I have had my best (and most lasting) gains from "longer" cycles. By longer I mean 6 - 9 months. There's a pretty well-known bodybuilding "personality" here on Long Island that once told me something which made good sense to me. He said "the longer muscle resides on your body, the more your body is able to keep it (post-cycle)".

Here's his theory... If you quickly gain 15-20 lbs and then go "off", the muscle has not had any permanency on your frame. It is newly-acquired and foreign. However, if it's on your frame for months then your body has adapted to it, and has an affinity for keeping the stasis that you're in.

He has the same belief for fat also. Gain a few lbs of fat, easy to lose. Got a few lbs of fat on you for months, harder to shed.

As I said, it made sense to me so I applied it. I can't complain!

Sounds logical. I have a question though. If you come off a 6-9 month cycle and take a break for 2-3 months, do you start losing the gains youve made? If so, doesnt this mean that the "permanent" gains were a result of the increased test levels from the juice rather than your body adapting to the size gains and becoming permament eventually?

Thor · Nov 3, 2004

INTERESTING THREAD!

I love this thread and want to keep hearing your guys input as I almost always lose more than I'd like when off. I lose my appetite and almost always get sick or feel sluggish when coming off so I can't eat as much and can't seem to workout as much or as hard and usually end up losing too much, although I always look a little better and can manage to keep a few lbs. so every year i end up a few lbs. heavier. I also wonder if it is harder for us older guys to keep gains because of lower endogenous test levels. I don' t even THINK about sex for about a month straight after coming off, and I always take clomid and DHEA but still NO drive for at least a month after. During that time is when I am losing most of my gains and my motivation to train. I think i will try tribex and hCG next time.post cycle. Any other suggestions?

Maverick · Nov 3, 2004

Personally I prefer longer cycles. In order to elicit permanent growth you need to keep levels of elevated androgens and anabolics in the blood stream constant. To do this you need longer intervals on so that the body recoginzes this new growth as a permanant natural set point. In my opinion by doing shorter shotgun cycles or just shorter cycles in general you are constantly allowing your blood levels to go up and down and your body never fully recognizes the elevated levles as natural.

Maverick

Coopie · Nov 3, 2004

Monster Mass -

I always try to keep my PCT tight, and use HCG, Novla, and Clomid. Inevitably, I do lose some gains, but I feel that each long cycle brings me to a new "baseline" mass level. So, if I can keep, for example, 10 lbs of lean mass after my PCT is complete and before I jump into my next cycle - I consider that a success. If I keep raising my baseline LBM then I'm happy.

Short cycles, for me, have meant short-lived gains. I just don't see the results when I go from AS to PCT to AS to PCT, etc.

monster_mass · Nov 3, 2004

what about your health?

coopie -
cool
how long is your rest between cycles. Do you bridge?
also, since long term use of roids could be detrimental to your health, what do you do to ensure your health remains good.(look at flex wheeler, don long, etc)

Coopie · Nov 3, 2004

I don't bridge because I am "on" for much of the year anyhow. I have a great friend who shares my strategy in terms of long (9 month) cycles and he bridges with Dbol and Var. For me, I prefer to either be "on" or "off" - so my "off" time is strictly off.

In terms of overall health, that's a great point and frankly one that I should be more careful about. For the past five years I managed to have a friend who is a doctor check my blood stats on a regular basis. He also did a full "exam" on me 2X per year. That was very cool and everything was "off the chart", as we were lifelong friends. He moved out of the area a little over a year ago so that ended that.

Then I found (through a gym friend) a doc in NYC who was an HRT specialist and a "friend" to bodybuilders and athletes. He was a little shady but I saw him a few times. He had a heart attack and died just before this summer.

Since seeing him last, I haven't been to a doc for check ups. My family physician is my father in law and he is a wonderful MD, but is clueless about AS, PCT, and anything that I would need a doctor to look for.

In fact, if anyone can recommend a doc in NYC or LI - I'm open to suggestions. You can PM me or ask for my personal email and I'd be thankful for all suggestions!