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Which would you prefer?

Backfrominjury

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Jan 16, 2018
Messages
99
As part of a 12 week cycle that included

Mast 400 wk
Sust 700 wk
Winny 50 ED

would you rather add

Tren 400 for 7 1/2 weeks with Deca 300 for 6 weeks
OR
Tren 400 for 5 weeks with Deca 600 for 6 weeks
OR
Tren 400 for 5 weeks with Deca 300 for 12 weeks

For me, I get some insomnia and decrease in appetite from Tren.
Better appetite and no insomnia with Deca but at higher doses it does bring high BP.
I've ran both compounds about 5 times each but never together before.
Currently 225 at 14% bf....Goal 210 at 6%
 
I would def go with the Deca @ 300mg for longer. Thats just me though bc I do respond to Deca at that dose. Some dont feel like its a high enough dose, but 300-400 is right at that sweet spot for me.
 
The reason for my question is two-fold. Which would give me the best quality muscle and I have never ran two 19 nors together. At those doses I am wondering if there would be an issue with running the two together for those lengths of time. I think the Mast would help with estrogen and I've never had prolactin issues before, but don't want to start either.
 
As part of a 12 week cycle that included

Mast 400 wk
Sust 700 wk
Winny 50 ED

would you rather add

Tren 400 for 7 1/2 weeks with Deca 300 for 6 weeks
OR
Tren 400 for 5 weeks with Deca 600 for 6 weeks
OR
Tren 400 for 5 weeks with Deca 300 for 12 weeks

For me, I get some insomnia and decrease in appetite from Tren.
Better appetite and no insomnia with Deca but at higher doses it does bring high BP.
I've ran both compounds about 5 times each but never together before.
Currently 225 at 14% bf....Goal 210 at 6%

I don't think it would make much difference. Anything will work. If I had to recommend tren and deca I would say run your sust and mast for 12 weeks. For the first 6 weeks run deca at about 400mg and for the last 6 weeks run tren at about 400mg. Add the winny in for the final 4 weeks at 50mg per day. Although looking at your stats and your target you could just run the sust and mast as that is plenty. Sometimes keeping things simple works out best and you don't need to bombard yourself with different drugs that cause side effects. Incidentally I much prefer tren a over tren e especially in regards to possible side effects.

I wouldn't worry too much and just use stuff that give you the least side effects and if that means lowering the dose go for it. As long as you have any base of hormones in your system you will maintain muscle as you diet down (if diet is spot on) so don't overthink the combos of different drugs and just use what you feel best on.
 
"I wouldn't worry too much and just use stuff that give you the least side effects and if that means lowering the dose go for it. As long as you have any base of hormones in your system you will maintain muscle as you diet down (if diet is spot on) so don't overthink the combos of different drugs and just use what you feel best on."

You hit the nail on the head. This is exactly what I am doing- worrying and overthinking. I am 45 and done around 10 cycles since my first in 2006. I'd say half of them included deca and half tren. My problem is I always put on decent size, but never the look I am currently going for. I know at my age, I am wanting to do less and less gear and no longer focus so much on getting as big as I can and instead focus on a hard, quality, more streamlined look. I included pics. Do you think the answer is not really in the gear, but the diet?
 

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"I wouldn't worry too much and just use stuff that give you the least side effects and if that means lowering the dose go for it. As long as you have any base of hormones in your system you will maintain muscle as you diet down (if diet is spot on) so don't overthink the combos of different drugs and just use what you feel best on."

You hit the nail on the head. This is exactly what I am doing- worrying and overthinking. I am 45 and done around 10 cycles since my first in 2006. I'd say half of them included deca and half tren. My problem is I always put on decent size, but never the look I am currently going for. I know at my age, I am wanting to do less and less gear and no longer focus so much on getting as big as I can and instead focus on a hard, quality, more streamlined look. I included pics. Do you think the answer is not really in the gear, but the diet?


Diet 100%. IMO - you need one longer and not so fun diet phase to get you VERY Lean. Then a another cycle where you slowly increase calories while staying leaner then you have previously.

Guessing on the photos and my experience, you will likely lose more weight than you would initially think ~25-35lbs. So... 16-20 weeks. If you keep you calories up vs dropping too fast and then time your carbs to be a few meals before training and then a few after - you should keep and gain strength. Some compound movements will change - but I think thats more to do with mechanics changing vs getting weaker. As in.. your back isnt as fat or your chest so you pushing movements are stagnant - but really your ROM is increasing. Or squat/deads - your waist is smaller and you have less rebound at the bottom.
 
"Diet 100%. IMO - you need one longer and not so fun diet phase to get you VERY Lean. Then a another cycle where you slowly increase calories while staying leaner then you have previously."

Thanks. I am planning the diet to start at the same time as this cycle. Later in the year that I had wanted but the lockdown threw everything off a few months.
 
"I wouldn't worry too much and just use stuff that give you the least side effects and if that means lowering the dose go for it. As long as you have any base of hormones in your system you will maintain muscle as you diet down (if diet is spot on) so don't overthink the combos of different drugs and just use what you feel best on."

You hit the nail on the head. This is exactly what I am doing- worrying and overthinking. I am 45 and done around 10 cycles since my first in 2006. I'd say half of them included deca and half tren. My problem is I always put on decent size, but never the look I am currently going for. I know at my age, I am wanting to do less and less gear and no longer focus so much on getting as big as I can and instead focus on a hard, quality, more streamlined look. I included pics. Do you think the answer is not really in the gear, but the diet?

You have a great base to start dieting from. You are big, thick and still relatively lean. Diet is everything but of course gear is needed. So sure the answer isn't in the gear in most ways but you still need a base of hormones. Some guys on here act like you can get the same results on tiny doses compared to huge ones and it's simply not the case. However, at the same time sometimes you don't need to add loads of stuff to get great results and sometimes less is more (within reason) and you could get the results you want on a fraction of the doses. I don't know how you would react to everything and you may look better the more you take. But at your age and for your goals I definitely don't think you need to be adding all that and some of it may even go against you (unnecessary side effects). I think test and mast are a great combo and you could add tren in for the final 6 weeks. That is more than enough and most could get great results on just 40mg test and 40mg tren per day. Do you feel good on higher test? If side effects are an issue on tren why not try 20mg tren a per day and move up to about 40mg per day. 40mg tren a per day is plenty for looking good and it's what I personally use most of the time as well (30-50mg per day). There is no 1 formula that suits all and we all need different amounts but I think if you ease off a little you will get the results and feel better in the process.

Now the main thing is your diet and that is the number 1 factor that will dictate your end results. You are thick and to get your waist tight you may have to lose more weight than you initially think. I can tell you have been big/thick all over for awhile so I would take your time coming down. I would need more details but as the above suggested balanced macros and over time take away some carbs and fats. There is no set rule but I would end up with most of your carbs around training and if you need to up protein as the others go down do so. You can get more aggressive in the final few weeks and that will make a big difference to your waist. I also think a little fasting (16 hours or so) could help you as well when you are later on in your diet. You will lose a bit of fullness as you drop weight but I can also tell by looking at you that your waist will be the first area the fat/water drops off so just stay consistent. Later on you can regain most of that lost fullness with certain methods and when combined with a leaner physique and a tighter waist that will look extremely impressive because you have the muscle. The key is just holding onto as much of that muscle as you diet down which will be easy if you move down slowly, keep protein high and use the likes of test, tren and mast.

Just a random thought but I assume you respond well to winny? Have you used it much before? Have you ever used avar?
 
You have a great base to start dieting from. You are big, thick and still relatively lean. Diet is everything but of course gear is needed. So sure the answer isn't in the gear in most ways but you still need a base of hormones. Some guys on here act like you can get the same results on tiny doses compared to huge ones and it's simply not the case. However, at the same time sometimes you don't need to add loads of stuff to get great results and sometimes less is more (within reason) and you could get the results you want on a fraction of the doses. I don't know how you would react to everything and you may look better the more you take. But at your age and for your goals I definitely don't think you need to be adding all that and some of it may even go against you (unnecessary side effects). I think test and mast are a great combo and you could add tren in for the final 6 weeks. That is more than enough and most could get great results on just 40mg test and 40mg tren per day. Do you feel good on higher test? If side effects are an issue on tren why not try 20mg tren a per day and move up to about 40mg per day. 40mg tren a per day is plenty for looking good and it's what I personally use most of the time as well (30-50mg per day). There is no 1 formula that suits all and we all need different amounts but I think if you ease off a little you will get the results and feel better in the process.

Now the main thing is your diet and that is the number 1 factor that will dictate your end results. You are thick and to get your waist tight you may have to lose more weight than you initially think. I can tell you have been big/thick all over for awhile so I would take your time coming down. I would need more details but as the above suggested balanced macros and over time take away some carbs and fats. There is no set rule but I would end up with most of your carbs around training and if you need to up protein as the others go down do so. You can get more aggressive in the final few weeks and that will make a big difference to your waist. I also think a little fasting (16 hours or so) could help you as well when you are later on in your diet. You will lose a bit of fullness as you drop weight but I can also tell by looking at you that your waist will be the first area the fat/water drops off so just stay consistent. Later on you can regain most of that lost fullness with certain methods and when combined with a leaner physique and a tighter waist that will look extremely impressive because you have the muscle. The key is just holding onto as much of that muscle as you diet down which will be easy if you move down slowly, keep protein high and use the likes of test, tren and mast.

Just a random thought but I assume you respond well to winny? Have you used it much before? Have you ever used avar?
I love anavar. Used it a few times and loved the results. People say it has a way of bringing in the midsection along with other benefits and I found this to be true. It is the only oral I have ever used other than one cycle of dbol 8 years ago.

I only tried winny one time while prepping for a show in 2007. I got sick from fake gear and had to drop out but I was having amazing results at the time. Of course I was doing clen and tren with it so I cant tell what was doing what. That time I pinned it, this time I have oral winny 50.

This is a pic of me on Var 40 mg a day and 500 mg test a week. Might not be the best judge of the compounds and my body because I was coming back from an injury where I was out of the gym for a year and VERY FAT before the cycle. Not much muscle there but the var did amazing things to my body comp.

You mention fasting- my girlfriend is big on intermittent fasting and fasts 16 hours a day every single day. We always argue as I have always been a "you have to eat every 2 1/2-3 hours" kind of guy. I have been against it thinking I will shrivel up to nothing. She looks amazing doing it though.

I was planning on starting my diet and cycle on Monday after I come back from a 4 day weekend trip from the beach. You give me some things to think about.
 

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Personally I don’t think you need anything near that much gear to diet down and recomp on.
I’d start with 200mg Test/Tren/Mast with a good diet then slowly increase the dose to prevent from having to reduce the calories much.
Or if you don’t like Tren use 25-30mg day of anavar
 
Personally I don’t think you need anything near that much gear to diet down and recomp on.
I’d start with 200mg Test/Tren/Mast with a good diet then slowly increase the dose to prevent from having to reduce the calories much.
Or if you don’t like Tren use 25-30mg day of anavar

I have gone that low with Tren and Mast before but I have never done a cycle with test lower than 500. I usually stay between 500-800. Even my first ever cycle, which was sust only was 500 mg a week. I have been doing a lot of reading from guys who like test lower and tren or other compounds higher, but for every person that likes low test there is another who says the opposite. The only way to know would be to give it a try.
 
I have gone that low with Tren and Mast before but I have never done a cycle with test lower than 500. I usually stay between 500-800. Even my first ever cycle, which was sust only was 500 mg a week. I have been doing a lot of reading from guys who like test lower and tren or other compounds higher, but for every person that likes low test there is another who says the opposite. The only way to know would be to give it a try.

I realized I was able to hold my gains and even change my body composition on around 150mg of test a week a couple years ago. It was such an enlightening thing to realize. Now I will never go above 750mg Test ever again. I think 500 is a damn good dose.

Im considering adding just 200mg Tren E a week with my 500mg of test and seeing what that somewhat low dose of tren can do for me.

Keep us posted on what you decide and how it goes. Youre obviously a thick dude and I mean that in a good way. We have similar builds. Im 5'10" and in this moment Im hovering around 235, but that needs to be closer to 205-210 in the next 6 months or so
 
The reason for my question is two-fold. Which would give me the best quality muscle and I have never ran two 19 nors together. At those doses I am wondering if there would be an issue with running the two together for those lengths of time. I think the Mast would help with estrogen and I've never had prolactin issues before, but don't want to start either.
I'd go with the

Tren 400 for 5 weeks with Deca 300 for 12 weeks.

I'm actually running a similar cycle right now.

In my experience there's no problem running multiple Nor 19 compounds simultaneously.

For example why would 300 Deca 300 tren be worse than 600 tren? Makes no sense to me and It's never affected me poorly. If Issues do arise I just add in proviron.

I Avoid prami or similar drugs because they can cause addictive behavior. In the past I've had some bad habits, and im at a good place in my life now and like keep it that way.
 
I have had the best results from running one compound from each family. Deca or tren, dbol or eq etc. Targeting multiple receptors has always seemed more effective with less side effects.
 
Test 500 throughout (1-12)
Mast 400 first four weeks (1-4)
Deca 400 second four weeks (5-8)
Tren 400 third four weeks (9-12)

Winny after your cycle while you wait for the long esters to clear your system so you can start PCT (13-15)
 
Test 500 throughout (1-12)
Mast 400 first four weeks (1-4)
Deca 400 second four weeks (5-8)
Tren 400 third four weeks (9-12)

Winny after your cycle while you wait for the long esters to clear your system so you can start PCT (13-15)

Interesting. Have you had good results running Deca or Mast for such short periods? Seems like Mast is one of those that you have to run for awhile to see its best work.
 
I've never had a long ester that needed time to work. Sure, it takes an extra few days to peak, but even with long esters a bulk of the hormone is released in the first couple days. From what I recall the peak even on the longest esters is still day one or day two. Anyway, if you are concerned, you could run Mast P, NPP, and Tren A.
 
Have you ever considered running mast as a supplementary compound for the entirety of your cycle? It has relatively low side effects and compliments both compounds you’re planning to run on weeks 5 thru 12, IMO.
 
I have had the best results from running one compound from each family. Deca or tren, dbol or eq etc. Targeting multiple receptors has always seemed more effective with less side effects.
For me low-dose Deca goes well with anything, it allows me to train with more intensity because of the joint relief it gives.

I'm probably not going to run any cycle without nandrolone; at least for extended periods.

Right now I'm doing 250 deca and about 200 tren per week and loving it. Dianabol always felt toxic to me, eq just wasn't very impressive I haven't tried DHB or primo (can't remember if primo is a dihydroboldenone derivative or dht).

Tren never gave me much sides and I used to just brew Fina.

Now that I'm in my thirties health is becoming a bigger concern. And I'm starting to workout for endurance. So I need to adjust my cycles (use less Tren).
 
i think the idea of planned 12 week cycles is old and inaccurate way of looking at things.
especially at 45 you are prob not gona make consistent progress through all 12.
break that into two training cycles and use gear to support that.
running wini for longer terms often results in injury, if you really wana run an oral for a longer period use drol. which is magic for dieting anyway.*
test/eq/drol then run test/tren/mast. deload/recovery in the middle.
 

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