• All new members please introduce your self here and welcome to the board:
    http://www.professionalmuscle.com/forums/showthread.php?t=259
Buy Needles And Syringes With No Prescription
M4B Store Banner
intex
Riptropin Store banner
Generation X Bodybuilding Forum
Buy Needles And Syringes With No Prescription
Buy Needles And Syringes With No Prescription
Mysupps Store Banner
IP Gear Store Banner
PM-Ace-Labs
Ganabol Store Banner
Spend $100 and get bonus needles free at sterile syringes
Professional Muscle Store open now
sunrise2
PHARMAHGH1
kinglab
ganabol2
Professional Muscle Store open now
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
azteca
granabolic1
napsgear-210x65
esquel
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
ashp210
UGFREAK-banner-PM
1-SWEDISH-PEPTIDE-CO
YMSApril21065
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
advertise1
tjk
advertise1
advertise1
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store

Who runs tren for long cycles?

There is something there causing something. I'm talking with the pellets particularly. I had came across a study on the pellets regarding liver issues and respiratory issues in cattle few years back, it said it was causing toxicity and possible lesions. As for kidney I don't recall it saying anything, but many I know complain if kidney pain while taking Tren for a long time more than 10 weeks.

Cooking something up at home, using a bunch of solvents and having to try and remove all those fillers etc., adding in to much solvent, cooking something to long, having something oxidize, do you really know what your ending up with.

Have you ever seen some of the Tren after some of these people convert it. Some of it looks like sludge from a toilet. If someone wants to use it be my guest, I will pass.

Broscience unfortunately many times it what you have to rely on in this game. You can call anecdotal evidence if you like. You don't have many human or animal studies with have the stuff bodybuilders are taking. If you have a lot of bros complaining they had no issues until they took Tren, and now they all have Tren as a common factor, and go further and they all used Tren at moderate to high dosages for moderate to long cycles thats something to take into consideration before you go load up on it.

Hey just my opinion that is all. People can believe and do as they will.
 
Last edited:
There is something there causing something. I'm talking with the pellets particularly. I had came across a study on the pellets regarding liver issues and respiratory issues in cattle few years back, it said it was causing toxicity and possible lesions. As for kidney I don't recall it saying anything, but many I know complain if kidney pain while taking Tren for a long time more than 10 weeks.

Cooking something up at home, using a bunch of solvents and having to try and remove all those fillers etc., adding in to much solvent, cooking something to long, having something oxidize, do you really know what your ending up with.

Have you ever seen some of the Tren after some of these people convert it. Some of it looks like sludge from a toilet. If someone wants to use it be my guest, I will pass.

Broscience unfortunately many times it what you have to rely on in this game. You can call anecdotal evidence if you like. You don't have many human or animal studies with have the stuff bodybuilders are taking. If you have a lot of bros complaining they had no issues until they took Tren, and now they all have Tren as a common factor, and go further and they all used Tren at moderate to high dosages for moderate to long cycles thats something to take into consideration before you go load up on it.

Hey just my opinion that is all. People can believe and do as they will.

But there are studies on trenbolone both for human and animal use. Parabolan underwent clinical trials before it was approved for human use, same thing with Finaject and now Finaplix approved for use in cattle.
None of those mention serious liver or kidney toxicity.

Now with the conversions, its a totally different story. You cannot remove chemical contamination with a syringe filter unfortunately.
 
Looks like i'll only stick with UG tren if I try it again. I just dont trust the guy making it out of pellets.
 
I know a guy who has been on Tren a tad over 2years now. I tell him he really needs to get some bloodwork done, but he doesnt care. He's obsessive compulsive. He fell in love with the stuff the day he tried it. I beleive he stayed on doses between 800-1000mg weekly for the first year, then took a few months off and started back up at 1500mg weekly. He learned how to make it, and unfortunately he isnt very sterile in the process. He's been on 1.5g's of it now along with 800mg test for the past 8months or so. He's only like 22. There is no possible way something serious wont happen. I just dont see how. I tried tren for 2 cycles and just dont feel well on it. Look awesome but just dont feel well. I prefer NPP over it anyday.

How does NPP compare to tren?
 
But there are studies on trenbolone both for human and animal use. Parabolan underwent clinical trials before it was approved for human use, same thing with Finaject and now Finaplix approved for use in cattle.
None of those mention serious liver or kidney toxicity.

Now with the conversions, its a totally different story. You cannot remove chemical contamination with a syringe filter unfortunately.

Yes, there are plenty of studies on cattle and and you don't think companies conducting those studies are not going to skew their results at all;) Their selling a drug that many cattle farmers will be able to increase their cattle growth rate by 50%. Even if they do produce sides you think many of these farmers will care.

Finaject was a Vet product.

Parabolon(trenbolone hexahydrobenzylcarbonate) was the only Tren approved for human used and produce by Negma in France. I could not find any human studies on Tren use that were not in vitro. Not even by Negma France. If you can post some, I would be curious to what they say. Maybe they are in French I don't know how they approve stuff over there 10-15years ago. Tren has never been FDA approved for use in humans.

This is the only study I found regarding a person taking Tren:

Cholestasis induced by parabolan successfully treated with the molecular adsorbent recirculating system.
Anand JS, Chodorowski Z, Hajduk A, Waldman W.
Clinic of Internal Medicine and Acute Poisonings, Medical University of Gdańsk, Ul. Debinki 7, 80-211 Gdańsk, Poland.
We describe a case of a 21-year-old male bodybuilder who overdosed on Parabolan (trenbolone acetate) because of its anabolic activity. The patient, with no previous medical history, experienced pruritus and yellow discoloration of the skin and sclerae. Basic biochemical laboratory examination revealed signs of cholestasis with a serum bilirubin level of up to 65.5 mg/dl. Because supportive medical treatment was ineffective, the patient was treated with the molecular adsorbent recirculating system (MARS). Five MARS cycles lasting from 8 to 12 hours were performed every second day. The procedure was well tolerated by the patient and resulted in a sustained relief of pruritus. At the 2-month follow-up visit the plasma bilirubin level had decreased to 2 mg/dl.
: J Toxicol Environ Health A. 2007 Jan 15;70(2):138-40


I'm not saying don't take Tren or trying to convince you otherwise. I never used the word serious, but even if something had a possibility to cause a small issue thats not something to overlook.

I'm just saying don't dismiss all anecdotal evidence before making a decision to jump into something full blast.
 
Last edited:
How does NPP compare to tren?

Its like deca minus deca's aweful bloat. To me NPP to tren is kinda like Tbol compared to var. Strenght on NPP will outweigh tren and so will size. Bloat is minimal but NPP will still bloat you more than tren. You really gotta try both to compare.
 
FOUND THIS INTERESTING

ENDOCRINE TOXICOLOGY
In Vitro and in Vivo Effects of 17ß-Trenbolone: A Feedlot Effluent Contaminant
Vickie S. Wilson1, Christy Lambright, Joe Ostby and L. E. Gray, Jr.
U.S. Environmental Protection Agency, Office of Research and Development, National Health and Environmental Effects Research Laboratory, Reproductive Toxicology Division, MD-72, Research Triangle Park, North Carolina 27711
Received July 18, 2002; accepted September 10, 2002
ABSTRACT

Concern has arisen regarding the presence and persistence of trenbolone in the environment. Trenbolone acetate is an anabolic steroid used to promote growth in beef cattle. It is hydrolyzed to the active compound, 17ß-trenbolone (TB), which is also one of the metabolites excreted by cattle. Reproductive alterations have been reported in fish living in waters receiving cattle feedlot effluent, and in vitro androgenic activity displayed by feedlot effluent samples has been related to these effects. In the current study, the androgenic potency of TB was examined both in vitro and in short-term in vivo assays. TB was a high affinity ligand for the androgen receptor (AR), with an IC50 of about 4 nM in rat ventral prostate cytosol and about 33 nM in cells transfected with the human AR when competed with 1 nM [3H]R1881. TB induced AR-dependent gene expression in MDA-kb2 cells with a potency equal to or greater than dihydrotestosterone. In immunocytochemistry experiments with the human AR, concentrations as low as 1 pM significantly induced androgen-dependent translocation of the AR into the cell nucleus. TB also displayed antiglucocorticoid activity in vitro, inhibiting dexamethasone-induced transcriptional activity, and reduced adrenal gland size in vivo. In the Hershberger assay (in vivo), TB was as potent as testosterone propionate in tissues that lack 5 -reductase but less effective at increasing weight of tissues with this enzyme. Such tissue specificity was anticipated because other C-19 norsteroidal androgens display a similar profile in this assay. Subcutaneous TB treatment was about 50- to 100-fold more effective in stimulating growth of androgen-dependent tissues than was oral treatment. In our in utero screening assay, maternal TB administration increased AGD and attenuated the display of nipples in female offspring in a dose-related manner, similar to the published effects of testosterone propionate. Previous studies have documented that these types of malformations in newborn and infant rats are not only permanent effects but are also highly correlated with serious reproductive malformations as adults. In summary, TB is a potent environmental androgen both in vitro and in vivo and, in contrast to other reports, can induce developmental abnormalities in the fetus.
Key Words: 17ß-trenbolone; environmental androgen; feedlot contaminant; in vivo; in vitro; in utero screen.
DISCUSSION

In the current study, we demonstrated in vitro that TB is a high affinity AR ligand that induces AR-dependent gene transcription with potency equal to or greater than DHT. We also found that this steroid is active in vivo both in the Hershberger assay and during sexual differentiation. In the castrated-immature male rat, TB displays tissue-selective androgenic activity, exhibiting potency similar to TP in stimulating growth of the LABC muscles, while in contrast, tissues high in 5 -reductase activity such as the VP and seminal vesicles were stimulated only slightly as compared to TP. Such tissue-specific androgenicity is not unusual; for example, this has been described for 7 -methyl-19-nortestosterone, which cannot be metabolized by 5 -reductase, and 19-nortestosterone, which is inactivated by 5 -reductase (Sundaram et al., 1995 ; Toth and Zakar, 1986 ). In contrast to the ventral prostate and seminal vesicles, the effect of androgens in the LABC muscles is normally mediated via testosterone rather than conversion of testosterone to DHT. It is interesting to note, however, that maternal administration of TB during the critical period of sexual differentiation had marked effects on both AGD length and nipple regression, which are DHT-dependent processes. In the present study, TB administration during this period increased AGD and caused complete atrophy of nipple anlagen in female offspring. In comparison to the effects of TP administered at identical dosages levels during the same period of gestation, TB was about half as potent as TP in inducing malformations in these androgen-dependent tissues. Studies in our laboratory (Gray et al., 1999 ; Hotchkiss et al., submitted manuscript; Wolf et al., 2002 ) and in other laboratories (McIntyre et al., 2001 , 2002 ) have documented that AGD and nipple formation in newborn and infant male and female rats are not only permanent effects but also are highly correlated with other serious reproductive malformations. With this in mind, we have developed a short-term in utero protocol to screen for androgens and antiandrogens using AGD and infant nipple formation as triggers. Reduced AGD at birth and increased infant nipple formation in male rats at birth is indicative of antiandrogenic activity and triggers an extensive evaluation of all F1 male offspring after puberty. On the other hand, as seen here, increased AGD in newborn female rats and reduced nipple formation triggers an extensive evaluation of all F1 female offspring after puberty. Evaluation of F1 offspring from this study is still ongoing and will determine what other adverse effects are associated with administration of TB during sexual differentiation. Based upon previous studies with TP, we anticipate retained male sex accessory tissues, vaginal agenesis, and hydrometrocolpus in addition to other effects (Wolf et al., 2002 ).
The toxicity of TB in the environment recently became an issue when it was recognized that this chemical and one of its metabolites, 17 -trenbolone, which is a weaker androgen in vitro, are excreted into feedlots at concentrations that might be expected to be physiologically active (Schiffer et al., 2001 ). In fact, Ankley et al. (in preparation) recently reported that environmentally relevant concentrations of TB in the low ng/l (ppt) range masculinized female fathead minnows in the laboratory and reduced fecundity in the fish. Here, we show that low ppt (nM and below) concentrations of TB also stimulate gene expression in vitro via the human AR. To date, regulatory agencies have not conducted an environmental risk assessment of this compound; in spite of the fact that, as shown here and by Ankley et al. (in preparation), ppt concentrations are active in vitro and in vivo in two vertebrate classes. Schiffer et al.(2001) found concentrations of TB ranging from 5 to 75 ng/g and from 22 to 49 times higher levels of 17 -trenbolone in the manure canal. In addition, it has been shown that feedlot effluent from a concentrated animal feedlot operation (CAFO) displays a high level of androgenic activity (Gray et al., 2001 ; Jegou et al., 2001 ). Furthermore, altered endocrine physiology was detected in fathead minnows collected from streams near this CAFO (Jegou et al., 2001 ). While there are no data on the concentrations of TB in biota from different trophic levels around these CAFO sites, one would speculate that fish would be at greater risk, absorbing the chemical from the water across the gills, than would mammals that might ingest contaminated fish or water. The potential risk to lower vertebrates like amphibians, reptiles, and birds at the CAFO site, is too speculative to comment on at this time due to lack of data. Our hypothesis that mammals would be at less risk after oral ingestion of TB is based upon our results from the two Hershberger assays which demonstrate that TB was about 80–100 fold less effective via the oral route than via injection in the Hershberger assay. Similar results were cited by the WHO from unpublished Hershberger assay studies (Escuret and Bas, 1978 ; Schroder, 1971a ,b ). Such speculation, however, should be confirmed by data on this point because long-term dietary TBA treatment has adverse effects on reproduction at µg/kg/day dosage levels (Hunter et al., 1976 , 1981 , 1982 ). Although the oral route was less effective than was sc injection, trenbolone acetate (TBA) and TB have been shown to disrupt the reproductive system of humans, pigs, mice, rats, and other mammalian species at relatively low dosage levels when administered orally (Hess, 1983 , 1984 ; Hunter et al., 1981 , 1982 ; Kruskemper et al., 1967 , Lopez-Bote et al., 1994 ).
The developmental and reproductive effects of TBA were extensively studied in the 1970s and 1980s (Trenbolone acetate: WHO Food Additives Series 25). However, none of these studies are published and only brief summaries of the results are available from WHO documents. In those studies, reproductive effects were seen in multigenerational studies using rats at doses ranging from 0.5–18 ppm in the diet. However, those studies did not report any effects that were clearly related to alterations of sexual differentiation. It is possible that some developmental effects were missed because they involve nonstandard endpoints (e.g., looking for the ventral prostate in females or reduced nipple numbers) or confused with direct effects on the adult because treatments were continued throughout life. Furthermore, several teratology studies cited in this review failed to observe any malformations in TBA or TB-treated fetuses and measurement of AGD in males also revealed no effect. In our study, it is clear that sc TB administration does induce malformations and it is likely that oral TB also will be "teratogenic," albeit at higher dosage levels.
In summary, this study confirms that in vitro TB is a high affinity ligand for both the rat and human AR and also induces AR-dependent gene expression with a potency equal to or greater than DHT. Along with its AR agonist activity, TB also acted as a GR antagonist in vitro. In the castrated immature rat, TB displays selective androgenic activity as compared to testosterone, affecting tissues that lack 5 -reductase more than those with this enzyme. Conversely, administration of TB during the critical period of sexual differentiation increased AGD and attenuated nipple formation in female offspring, both of which are DHT-dependent tissues. These types of malformations have been shown to be indicators of more serious reproductive malformations later in life after exposure during sexual differentiation. Given the extensive use of TB in certain types of livestock feeding operations, its persistence in the environment, and the fact that it does induce reproductive malformations, further studies would be warranted. Similar to the problems with estrogenic effects seen with steroidal estogens found is sewage effluents, one would predict that fish residing downstream of feedlot operations where TB is used would be masculinized. In addition, as relatively little is known about the fate and tranport of TB in such systems, it seems reasonable that an ecological risk assessment should be conducted.
 
I understand what youre trying to say
Ill try to look for clinical studies on Parabolan, they will be in French but i dont think it will be difficult to translate if youre that interested.
The approval process wasnt any more lenient than the corresponding process in the USA.
(i.e. cell culture trials followed by animal trials and lastly finishing off with clinical trials on volunteers)
About the poisoning study, well its from 2007, pretty safe to assume that the subject was not taking human grade parabolan, therefore the conversion/impure powder issues apply.
The last study you quoted - well that did not deal with acute/chronic toxicity either, but in fact with androgen derived abnormalities - which is easily understood, as giving such a strong androgen to a developing organism which has not reached puberty yet, will have disastrous consequences. And we all know according to indexes tren is at least 5 times as androgenic as testosterone.
 
I think most will agree the biggest concern while on tren is the effect on your blood pressure. The BP is extremely tough on your kidneys, etc. Get that under control and you are all good? Then there is the night sweats, anger, mood swings, low sex drive, long term infertilty, progest gyno, acne, hair loss, complete HPTA long term shutdown, etc., etc. its a love/hate relationship.
 
I'm no expert but I've been around awhile and your messing with FIRE! 4-6 weeks and call it good for AT LEAST the same amount of time off. Tren has always as far as I've known come at a dose of 75mg/ml. All the underground labs and home brew wanted to get more bang for the buck so they up the dose to intrigue people. But to play it safe less is always more. These higher doses most likely is what causes all the unwanted side affects of tren. If you stay at 35mg daily your being about as safe as you can with the product. That's 245mgs a week which is more than enough to see results and the fact that you'll have a constant steady level from everyday dosing is optimal.
 
How does NPP compare to tren?

The stuff is harder to convert for one if you go that route cause phenyl crystallizes, and is alot more painful, and has to be shot every couple of days. So imo it sucks. I would just do decanoate, or try 2-20 mix of the NPP.
 
.....Deca or trembolone.....

....taking into account the benefits and side effects what is the best for you in a cycle?

I never used trembolone ... maybe one day...
 
.....Deca or trembolone.....

....taking into account the benefits and side effects what is the best for you in a cycle?

I never used trembolone ... maybe one day...


You'll never know unless you try them. Everybody responds differently. I never saw these astronomical strength gains like some claim they got from tren. Somebody said their strength went up 15-25% after just one shot:rolleyes: come on now, sounds like bullshit to me cause I never saw anything even close to that. Even orals take a couple of weeks before you really notice them so again people do exaggerate so you have to be your own judge.
 
How did Kurt Angle have a script for tren?



Kurt Angle Linked to Major Drug Scandal
Wednesday March 7, 2007
As everyone has probably heard by now, last week, multiple drug raids took place in Florida that have shaken the sports world to its core. As the days pass, more big names keep coming out as being linked to laboratories that sold "prescriptions" over the Internet. The latest name to be linked to this scandal is Kurt Angle. Sports Illustrated reports that Kurt received two prescriptions for trenbolone and one for nandrolone between October 2004 and February 2005. Both of these drugs are classified as steroids.

As wrestling fans may recall, last year Kurt was "medically suspended" by World Wrestling Entertainment and was released from the company shortly afterwards. He has since gone to TNA Wrestling, a company that does not have a public drug policy. A request made to TNA asking about their drug policy went unanswered.
 
How did Kurt Angle have a script for tren?



Kurt Angle Linked to Major Drug Scandal
Wednesday March 7, 2007
As everyone has probably heard by now, last week, multiple drug raids took place in Florida that have shaken the sports world to its core. As the days pass, more big names keep coming out as being linked to laboratories that sold "prescriptions" over the Internet. The latest name to be linked to this scandal is Kurt Angle. Sports Illustrated reports that Kurt received two prescriptions for trenbolone and one for nandrolone between October 2004 and February 2005. Both of these drugs are classified as steroids.

As wrestling fans may recall, last year Kurt was "medically suspended" by World Wrestling Entertainment and was released from the company shortly afterwards. He has since gone to TNA Wrestling, a company that does not have a public drug policy. A request made to TNA asking about their drug policy went unanswered.


I thought they stopped making parabolan. Maybe it was a misprint-I wouldn't believe everything you read.
 
6 1/2 weeks was the longest i ever went with tren a. i had to stop due to extreme anxiety and insomnia. i was shooting 350/week. at your dose and with test you should be fine.
 

Staff online

  • Big A
    IFBB PRO/NPC JUDGE/Administrator
  • LATS
    Moderator / FOUNDING Member / NPC Judge
  • pesty4077
    Moderator/ Featured Member / Kilo Klub

Forum statistics

Total page views
559,080,883
Threads
136,029
Messages
2,776,667
Members
160,416
Latest member
HughJass
NapsGear
HGH Power Store email banner
your-raws
Prowrist straps store banner
infinity
FLASHING-BOTTOM-BANNER-210x131
raws
Savage Labs Store email
Syntherol Site Enhancing Oil Synthol
aqpharma
YMSApril210131
hulabs
ezgif-com-resize-2-1
MA Research Chem store banner
MA Supps Store Banner
volartek
Keytech banner
musclechem
Godbullraw-bottom-banner
Injection Instructions for beginners
Knight Labs store email banner
3
ashp131
YMS-210x131-V02
Back
Top