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Why are long esters used for bulking and short esters for cutting?

Imho, its best to run both esters and get the best out of both worlds, run 250mg test e or c every 7-10 days with 100mg test p eod and if you wanna look hard without altering your diet too much add winny and tren to the mix. You can get just as cut by adding dbol and decca too but who would want to keep watching their sodium intake every 5 minutes? So my verdict is short esters and long esters both have a part to play in cutting or bulking:)
 
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I get more acne from longer esters (Enanthate) probably due to the increase rate of conversion to DHT and aromotasation.

Testosterone isnt Testosterone if one is sensitive to the ester reactions.
 
Yessssssss!

I get more acne from longer esters (Enanthate) probably due to the increase rate of conversion to DHT and aromotasation.

Testosterone isnt Testosterone if one is sensitive to the ester reactions.

Now I feel so much better about my long-ass post! Now we are thinking! Nice observation and comclusion Swifto!
 
test is test isnt so clear cut there arent many studies done on this subject i belive its kind of grey. All i know is i held the least amount of water on test suspension then prop and the long ones would cuase more bloat.

SB
 
Lately I have been doing a lot of research on this because I like accurate blood levels and I found a pdf from Pfizer on their Test Cyp which says the half life is 8 days and Heavyiron posted blood levels on a graph which appears to be around a 5 day half life.

Test Suspension is king but nobody wants to be a pin cushion so everyone turns to esters. Let's compare Test Suspension to Pfizers Test Cyp with an 8 day half life. If we wanted to match 100mg ED of Test Suspension with Test Cyp we would have to multiply 100mg times 8 and then times 2, so 1600mg. Maybe front loading makes a whole lot of sense. 1600mg is 800mg in 8 days which means it is released at a rate of 100mg ED. Then you only need another 800mg to maintain the 1600mg esterified blood level.

Now try applying that theory to Sustanon and it gets crazy, but let's use the half lifes above and break it down into the most logical dosing. I don't mean the 15-18 day half life listed, each individual one: Propionate 30mg 4.5 days Phenylpropionate 60mg 4.5 days Isocaproate 60mg 9 days and Decanoate 100mg 15 days. As you can see Prop and Phenylprop are pretty much the same thing so it's like 90mg of prop which everyone takes EOD. so in 4.5 days you used 45mg or 10mg/day, the Iso is about 3.3mg/day and the Deca coincidentally is about 3.3mg/day, altogether only 16.6mg/day for only 4.5 days! So to get closed to 100mg E4.5D you would need 6ml day one and 3ml every 4.5 days of Sustanon.

I just switched from Spartan Labs Sustanon to Cypionate and wasn't happy with the highs and lows on Sust and wanted to get to the bottom of it and this is it. I just did 1500mg of Cyp and plan on another 750mg in 8 days. Hoping this feels more like Test Suspension ED now.

Just wondering if anyone has experience coughing spasms while injecting cyp? I never had Tren cough so I don't know if my Cyp might really be tren.
 
Lately I have been doing a lot of research on this because I like accurate blood levels and I found a pdf from Pfizer on their Test Cyp which says the half life is 8 days and Heavyiron posted blood levels on a graph which appears to be around a 5 day half life.

Test Suspension is king but nobody wants to be a pin cushion so everyone turns to esters. Let's compare Test Suspension to Pfizers Test Cyp with an 8 day half life. If we wanted to match 100mg ED of Test Suspension with Test Cyp we would have to multiply 100mg times 8 and then times 2, so 1600mg. Maybe front loading makes a whole lot of sense. 1600mg is 800mg in 8 days which means it is released at a rate of 100mg ED. Then you only need another 800mg to maintain the 1600mg esterified blood level.

Now try applying that theory to Sustanon and it gets crazy, but let's use the half lifes above and break it down into the most logical dosing. I don't mean the 15-18 day half life listed, each individual one: Propionate 30mg 4.5 days Phenylpropionate 60mg 4.5 days Isocaproate 60mg 9 days and Decanoate 100mg 15 days. As you can see Prop and Phenylprop are pretty much the same thing so it's like 90mg of prop which everyone takes EOD. so in 4.5 days you used 45mg or 10mg/day, the Iso is about 3.3mg/day and the Deca coincidentally is about 3.3mg/day, altogether only 16.6mg/day for only 4.5 days! So to get closed to 100mg E4.5D you would need 6ml day one and 3ml every 4.5 days of Sustanon.

I just switched from Spartan Labs Sustanon to Cypionate and wasn't happy with the highs and lows on Sust and wanted to get to the bottom of it and this is it. I just did 1500mg of Cyp and plan on another 750mg in 8 days. Hoping this feels more like Test Suspension ED now.

Just wondering if anyone has experience coughing spasms while injecting cyp? I never had Tren cough so I don't know if my Cyp might really be tren.

I think you are making this way more complicated than it needs to be. I can tell when my test is very low but when it is normal or very high I really dont feel any difference. Shoot your cyp EOD or 2x a week and there is zero issues. When I am on hrt dose of 200mg I can feel low by the end of one week. When i do 100mg 2x a week all is well. And the blood work backs this.

When on I shoot eod. I am not sure there is a reason to get any more technical than that.
 
Thanks but I'm more the complex type than a simple. There's no pint in doing cyp eod, it's not Prop.
 
I get more acne from longer esters.
Yeah my girl just pointed it out to me on my back. Didnt happen with 300mg Sust EOD but I just took 1500mg of cyp and oh yeah feels like suspension. Time to take a melatonin.
 
If You want to get technical don't forget the weight of the esters;)
Example 100mg of Suspension is 100mg whereas as 100mg of Cyp is only 72mg of actual test
 
If You want to get technical don't forget the weight of the esters;)
Example 100mg of Suspension is 100mg whereas as 100mg of Cyp is only 72mg of actual test

good point, so I should have taken even more lol. 72mg ED isnt bad though.
 
I worked with a well know contest prep guru and he said cyp prop or enan didnt really matter pre contest. run what you have. the ai will crush any extra water bloat.
 
If You want to get technical don't forget the weight of the esters;)
Example 100mg of Suspension is 100mg whereas as 100mg of Cyp is only 72mg of actual test

Technically it's 70mg lol
 

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From everything I know, there is no reason to think a long ester would cause more water retention than a short ester. Testosterone with the ester still attached is going to have no effect, testosterone with the ester cleaved is going to have to have the same effect no matter what the ester was. Aromatization is going to be the same either way, thus E2 and free testosterone are going to be the same, thus water retention would be the same.
 
From everything I know, there is no reason to think a long ester would cause more water retention than a short ester. Testosterone with the ester still attached is going to have no effect, testosterone with the ester cleaved is going to have to have the same effect no matter what the ester was. Aromatization is going to be the same either way, thus E2 and free testosterone are going to be the same, thus water retention would be the same.

Agreed, and the next best thing to 100mg Test Suspension ED would be 1000mg Prop and then 500mg E4.5D to maintain a 92mg/day release rate.
 
To me, its all about blood levels. Longer esters cause spikes and uneven blood levels (sust is the worse). I think this is the cause of water retention and other side effects like mood swings. I also think water retention is not an ideal environment for fat loss.

With short esters, they are shot ED or EOD much more frequently than long esters which are usually shot 1-2times per week. I bet if someone shot enanthate everyday, there wouldn't be much water retention at all, once blood levels were stable at the 3-4 week mark.

Someone mentioned Tren Enanthate not giving you bloat, well I've bloated on Tren enanthate, and I know others have as well. I still lost a boat load of fat however.
 
To me, its all about blood levels. Longer esters cause spikes and uneven blood levels (sust is the worse). I think this is the cause of water retention and other side effects like mood swings. I also think water retention is not an ideal environment for fat loss.

With short esters, they are shot ED or EOD much more frequently than long esters which are usually shot 1-2times per week. I bet if someone shot enanthate everyday, there wouldn't be much water retention at all, once blood levels were stable at the 3-4 week mark.

Someone mentioned Tren Enanthate not giving you bloat, well I've bloated on Tren enanthate, and I know others have as well. I still lost a boat load of fat however.

Exactly, it's all about the blood levels. Check out the work I put into my above posts and you can see how to maintain those blood levels. All it takes is a little math and the actual Test without the ester to duplicate the affects of Test Suspension.
 

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