Why are more people not doing extremely high protein diets?

[FK86]

Protein has other responsibilities besides muscle growth. What he means is that if you're only converting 30 grams a day, you'd better have an abundance of protein as a whole to ensure the body can spare some for that purpose. Building and keeping muscle is a very low priority for the body.

 

[lynxeffect1]

I actually have zero issues with digestion luckily until I’m the very peak off-season and we push both the dietary fat and my body fat. As long as I stay in good shape, use psyllium husk and eat vegetables and my fat intake is 35g to 75g I can essentially do whatever protein/carb amount is required to meet my goals.

How much veggies you eating per meal and what type in offseason ? I found greens done me more harm than good always bloating and cramping me

 

[pickapeck]

Do an experiment. Go off everything for 3 months and cut your workouts in half and cut your calories so you don't balloon like a hypogonadal whale. You will lose a pile of weight. Then go on 1.5 grams of AAS and you will put on 30 lbs of lean mass in 6 weeks and lean out consuming 200-250 g protein and a pile of clean calories. I've seen it 100 times.

 

[165StateChamp]

How much veggies you eating per meal and what type in offseason ? I found greens done me more harm than good always bloating and cramping me

50-60g of green beans with each meal.

 

[trainlikeaboss]

It's only faulty logic if you put words in his mouth.

At no point did he say that you only need 30g of protein per day or that 200g of protein isn't useful.

From experience I can tell you he prescribes a moderately high amount of protein in his diets.

Putting words in someone’s mouth means claiming they said it. I said by the line of reasoning. That means applying the principals he is using. His claim that only 30 grams gets converted to muscle and the rest isn’t used for it. If you were to go with that logic there would be no reason to consume a large amount of protein ever. Just because you only gain 30 grams in actual weight, doesn’t mean more than 30 grams isn’t being used to build muscle. It’s not lb for lb that’s not how building muscle works is my point.

 

[marssel]

This is faulty logic. By this line of reasoning you would only need a very minimal amount of protein per day if only 30 grams gets used to build muscle. This is equating a small weight in protein eaten to weight in muscle gained. Just because you only gained a total of 30g in a day doesn’t mean 200g didn’t get used by the entire body in that process.

Protein is used in TONS of functions besides muscle building I think 30 gms a day would be terrible for a normal person let alone a lifter of any level

 

[BaetrixReloaded]

better off pushing carbs high than protein. most studies show anywhere between .8-1.2g per lb of body weight is sufficient. AAS enhance protein synthesis so the argument could be made you could have your protein intake on the lower end of that scale.

 

[SouthernMuscle]

better off pushing carbs high than protein. most studies show anywhere between .8-1.2g per lb of body weight is sufficient. AAS enhance protein synthesis so the argument could be made you could have your protein intake on the lower end of that scale.

Show me the study with bodybuilders practicing polypharmacy as the subjects

 

[BLang]

Putting words in someone’s mouth means claiming they said it. I said by the line of reasoning. That means applying the principals he is using. His claim that only 30 grams gets converted to muscle and the rest isn’t used for it. If you were to go with that logic there would be no reason to consume a large amount of protein ever. Just because you only gain 30 grams in actual weight, doesn’t mean more than 30 grams isn’t being used to build muscle. It’s not lb for lb that’s not how building muscle works is my point.

You extrapolated his logic into something he has never said, believed, or practiced. And then pointed out why that doesn't make sense.

You're literally making the exact argument he's making.

 

[BaetrixReloaded]

Show me the study with bodybuilders practicing polypharmacy as the subjects

fair enough, we know that doesn't exist for a variety of reasons. we only have the data we have and can definitely acknowledge there is some nuance when AAS are involved. but it's suffice to say this is generally the preached amount. my only point is if you're getting around that amount of protein, if you want to push food (and your recovery is good) you'd likely be better off increasing carbs for performance.

 

[SouthernMuscle]

fair enough, we know that doesn't exist for a variety of reasons. we only have the data we have and can definitely acknowledge there is some nuance when AAS are involved. but it's suffice to say this is generally the preached amount. my only point is if you're getting around that amount of protein, if you want to push food (and your recovery is good) you'd likely be better off increasing carbs for performance.

i say increase both, personally

generally preached data has no utility for me

this has been beat to death multiple times

 

[Hyperemia]

better off pushing carbs high than protein. most studies show anywhere between .8-1.2g per lb of body weight is sufficient. AAS enhance protein synthesis so the argument could be made you could have your protein intake on the lower end of that scale.

Your understanding of enhanced protein synthesis is completely wrong. I wrote this earlier on the thread but here it is.

From an anti-catabolic stance you are correct, but that isn't the whole picture is it? We have a much higher protein turnover when enhanced. So for maximum muscle gain, which we've been discussing, you will need more not the same or less as a natural bodybuilder. If you want the gains of a natural bodybuilder than sure, have the same or less protein. I don’t know about you but I’m not looking for the gains of a natural bodybuilder.

 

[qbkilla]

i say increase both, personally

generally preached data has no utility for me

this has been beat to death multiple times

Second time ever I agree with My friend here

Studies that the menno hennselmans and stronger by science push on people who don't train to failure, use gh and slin aren't really applicable. Someone like luki needs more protein than untrained natural guys in a study.

 

[qbkilla]

Do an experiment. Go off everything for 3 months and cut your workouts in half and cut your calories so you don't balloon like a hypogonadal whale. You will lose a pile of weight. Then go on 1.5 grams of AAS and you will put on 30 lbs of lean mass in 6 weeks and lean out consuming 200-250 g protein and a pile of clean calories. I've seen it 100 times.

Is this someone losing lbm then gaining it back quickly or more of a 1 step back to make 2 steps forward approach to gain lbm beyond where you stalled?

 

[Cerberus777]

Your understanding of enhanced protein synthesis is completely wrong. I wrote this earlier on the thread but here it is.

From an anti-catabolic stance you are correct, but that isn't the whole picture is it? We have a much higher protein turnover when enhanced. So for maximum muscle gain, which we've been discussing, you will need more not the same or less as a natural bodybuilder. If you want the gains of a natural bodybuilder than sure, have the same or less protein. I don’t know about you but I’m not looking for the gains of a natural bodybuilder.

Exactly. The higher your metabolic rate is the higher protein turnover is, if you don't have adequate protein to keep and rebuild muscle you loose it or at least stall.

 

[trainlikeaboss]

You extrapolated his logic into something he has never said, believed, or practiced. And then pointed out why that doesn't make sense.

You're literally making the exact argument he's making.

So as you are now agreeing, I used his line of reasoning to form my own opinion, and did not put words in his mouth.

He’s saying basically that clearly 500 grams of protein ISN’T being used to build muscle because if every gram of protein was a gram of muscle you’d be huge.

I’m saying just because you don’t weigh as much as you eat in grams of protein doesn’t mean it isn’t being used to build muscle. Yes we know protein is being used for other purposes in the body, but it also doesn’t work like that. In MPS proteins are produced from polypeptide chains created by ribosomes. It’s not a gram for gram conversion. That is what I’m saying doesn’t make sense.

As it has already been stated, we just don’t have studies on bodybuilders on gear and how much it takes for them to get to that size and grow. So scientifically, no, we don’t know how much protein it takes or what the limits are. The studies we have are only in average people, and even then their responses to protein intake vary by A LOT and it has to be assumed this comes down to genetics.

With just about everything in this sport, there is somewhat of a standard based on what we know, and then there is the logical recommendation to recognize that everyone responds to everything differently, food, aas, and training, therefore it’s best to test things on yourself and find what works best for you.

 

[SouthernMuscle]

Second time ever I agree with My friend here

Studies that the menno hennselmans and stronger by science push on people who don't train to failure, use gh and slin aren't really applicable. Someone like luki needs more protein than untrained natural guys in a study.

Congratulations on slowly pulling your head out of your ass

 

[headtrainer]

Protein has other responsibilities besides muscle growth. What he means is that if you're only converting 30 grams a day, you'd better have an abundance of protein as a whole to ensure the body can spare some for that purpose. Building and keeping muscle is a very low priority for the body.

Consuming excessive amounts of protein can build up ammonia in the blood—making you feel toxic unless you can jug water like a fish. Not to mention the gas and indigestion that occurs. You’re much better off to add more plant based foods to reduce overall blood acidity after protein needs have been met.

 

[qbkilla]

Congratulations on slowly pulling your head out of your ass

No need to be angry or passive aggressive bud, I thought your post was spot on about the studies not being relevant

 

[trainlikeaboss]

This study is a good read https://jissn.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1550-2783-11-20/tables/1
There’s a lot of information besides just protein intake but for those of you with a shorter attention span, essentially they conclude that 1.4g/lb of lbm was sufficient for natural bodybuilders when dieting. I don’t think it’s too far off to say an enhanced lifter could benefit from 2g/lb. Remember though this is lbm not total body weight so let’s say a 260 lb lifter at 15% would put you at 221x2=442g per day.