Why are more people not doing extremely high protein diets?

[luki7788]

I know bodybuilding isn't a healthy sport but is it even possible to keep kidneys in an "oke" state at that amount of protein?

you did not understand - I do not say whether it is good, healthy, etc. - I write what he told me

 

[dany23x]

Actually i have seen some coaches that advise to eat 1g/kg of proteins from complete sources + 30g EAA daily to get our protein requirement covered 100%.

I know that trainer who lives in England

Speech is subjective, to some subjects high proteins ruin the abdominal midsection

I personally the more I raise them the more I see muscle hardness

 

[qbkilla]

Curious, how tall are you?

5'10. I've always had a huge appetite, but not huge metabolism to match. So I use intermittent fasting, high volume foods (think mushrooms, strawberry, green beans) to not be hungry when eating to maintain weight.

Sometimes people see a lean 185 guy and assume they just don't like to eat or have a fast metabolism , quite the opposite for me. I'm at 3200, if I bump that up to 3400, I'll be at 195 in no time, 3700 over 200+. My struggle has always been the fat to muscle gain ratio, and once I get over 200 bp gets high and I have palpitations. I think back in around 2020 I worked with Alex a (rip) he had me at at least 300g protein I was about 210 (younger different goals back then). At one point it was 8 meals of steak. And hard cardio on step mill multiple times a week, when bulking.

Alex is a great example of someone who I assume doesn't have a super fast metabolism but stays lean year round. Always shredded but based on his before pics probably has a higher bf setpoint than we would think.

 

[pesty4077]

5'10. I've always had a huge appetite, but not huge metabolism to match. So I use intermittent fasting, high volume foods (think mushrooms, strawberry, green beans) to not be hungry when eating to maintain weight.

Sometimes people see a lean 185 guy and assume they just don't like to eat or have a fast metabolism , quite the opposite for me. I'm at 3200, if I bump that up to 3400, I'll be at 195 in no time, 3700 over 200+. My struggle has always been the fat to muscle gain ratio, and once I get over 200 bp gets high and I have palpitations. I think back in around 2020 I worked with Alex a (rip) he had me at at least 300g protein I was about 210 (younger different goals back then). At one point it was 8 meals of steak. And hard cardio on step mill multiple times a week, when bulking.

Alex is a great example of someone who I assume doesn't have a super fast metabolism but stays lean year round. Always shredded but based on his before pics probably has a higher bf setpoint than we would think.

I think you are losing track of time. Alex passed away in January 2015. Used to have lunch with him and go to his house. Real good guy.

No such thing as a fast metabolism at my age, but managed to stay lean. Right now with holidays I eat a little bit off what I normally do, but around January stay strict right through Summer. I focus more on health nowadays then size.

 

[Sixfoottwo]

you did not understand - I do not say whether it is good, healthy, etc. - I write what he told me

I do understand and like I said, I know bodybuilding isn't healthy. I was just wondering if someone is eating 800-1000 gr of protein a day, if there is even a chance of keeping kidneys oke.

 

[luki7788]

I do understand and like I said, I know bodybuilding isn't healthy. I was just wondering if someone is eating 800-1000 gr of protein a day, if there is even a chance of keeping kidneys oke.

Some Kai Grenne I haven't heard of having kidney problems or Ronnie Coleman. Or many others from the turn of the 90s and 00s, and then everyone ate even 5-6g / kg of protein. Single cases that someone has kidney problems and if it is from high blood pressure, not a large amount of protein

 

[dany23x]

kai when followed by farah, he kept his proteins very low, they said so in a seminar; generally farah is a coach who keeps a low protein intake, a bit like patrick tuor; then obviously, if an athlete weighs 120 / 130Kg, it is obvious that even holding 2g of protein produces 250/260 noble, which may seem like a lot but are very few for a freak

Some Kai Grenne I haven't heard of having kidney problems or Ronnie Coleman. Or many others from the turn of the 90s and 00s, and then everyone ate even 5-6g / kg of protein. Single cases that someone has kidney problems and if it is from high blood pressure, not a large amount of protein

 

[luki7788]

kai when followed by farah, he kept his proteins very low, they said so in a seminar; generally farah is a coach who keeps a low protein intake, a bit like patrick tuor; then obviously, if an athlete weighs 120 / 130Kg, it is obvious that even holding 2g of protein produces 250/260 noble, which may seem like a lot but are very few for a freak

I'm talking about the time Kai was at Oscar

Tour - honestly show me someone who really grows under his eye - grows and does not make a shape because it's a difference

 

[165StateChamp]

I'm talking about the time Kai was at Oscar

Tour - honestly show me someone who really grows under his eye - grows and does not make a shape because it's a difference

What do you think of Nicolas Vullioud and Alfred Chiriac progress with him?

 

[slayer37]

I work with Justin and I'm at about 1.5g/lb on low & medium days.
Protein is much lower on high days but that's because carbs are over 1000g.

 

[luki7788]

What do you think of Nicolas Vullioud and Alfred Chiriac progress with him?

Alfred just went from 212 where he had to fight to get into the weight so the fact that he came out a year later weighing 10kg more is not really a true picture of his progress.

And Nicolas is a genetic freak and who wouldn't coaching him would look good anyway

 

[Wolf79]

What do you think of Nicolas Vullioud and Alfred Chiriac progress with him?

Nicolas was rebuilding muscle from what I know so he didn't need a lot of protein. tuor in 2010-2015 recommended high amounts of protein. for a heavyweight bodybuilder it was 70-80g of protein per meal (x6) now he has changed his approach but I haven't noticed his fighters making any progress either. james hoolingshead seems to have regressed while working with tuor.

 

[pickapeck]

It's hard for me to understand why this is even a debate at this point. Maybe people that haven't done the high protein route refuse to do the self experiment and up the damn protein.

 

[KillerStack]

Yeah that guy was huuuuggeeee but unfortunately for him he was also very tall, no?

You're basically fucked as far as bodybuilding is concerned then.

Yeah you just need such overwhelming mass that it makes it very hard. He dropped dead suddenly a while back but his physical therapist was able to revive him. Went back on gear immediately but much less lol.

He also trained 7 days a week and often two times a day. He over did everything except rest.

I've trained in the same gyms as him for many many years. He just trained, ate and sold gear to all of us lol.

 

[FK86]

I work with Justin and I'm at about 1.5g/lb on low & medium days.
Protein is much lower on high days but that's because carbs are over 1000g.

I have his Shredded and Mass e-books where they are Excel files and you input your stats to get a diet. The breakdown is the same. I think 1.5 is his standard and over that is on a client-by-client basis. Likely reserved for really big and advanced guys who are using much higher doses that would allow them to utilize and benefit from it.

 

[KillerStack]

No pro or pro coach does what I would call low protein. Farah talks some balonie about health and lower protein and then you see his diets and it's all the same. Practically the same as everyone elseHigh protein. Say 450 grams a day is high protein to me, which I saw in some Farah pro meal plan. Justin Harris, seems to be the same. Everyone is in the same neighborhood lol.

 

[Cerberus777]

I do understand and like I said, I know bodybuilding isn't healthy. I was just wondering if someone is eating 800-1000 gr of protein a day, if there is even a chance of keeping kidneys oke.

High protein by itself doesn't cause kidney problems. Kidney problems cause you not to be able to excret excess ammonia and other metabolites and toxins caused by excess protein. High blood pressure is the leading cause of kidney disease.

 

[OuchThatHurts]

Name one credible case of a low-protein bodybuilding competitor. If they say they are, I would just chalk it up as another story to shock people or get people talking. That excerpt from Justin's book is complete nonsense. First, applying the laws of thermodynamics to dieting as if the body were a closed system is just beyond silly. Does that mean the laws of thermodynamics don't apply to the body? Of course not. But good luck figuring out what those numbers are.

Your body handles all macros and micros very, very differently. Fiber isn't digested at all and I assure you it has calories. Anything that isn't digested fully in the digestive tract goes out the the back and if did absorb properly into the blood but can't be used fast enough it passes in the urine (e.g. sugars, proteins, albumin, ammonia, chlorophyll, you name it).

Protein may or may not be digested depending on extremely variable absorption rates from individual to individual and under wildly varying conditions. Saying things like, "He eats a pound of protein per day but he doesn't gain a pound of muscle per day," is completely lacking a full overview of the complexities of body maintenance, cell repair, food burned as energy, even the heat that we radiate, etc. Your body can make pretty much every thing it needs except a few EAAs, fatty acids, and trace vitamins and minerals.

We can convert protein to carbs, fats to carbs, carbs to fats, build amino acids all based on chemical signaling and genetics by the highly complex systems of the body depending on what your body needs at that moment. You lose calories in so many ways in the form of work and heat, cell repair, energy storage (e.g. fat, glycogen, etc). Plus your body can add calories to your body by itself by cannibalizing fat and muscle.

A high protein diet is just simply necessary to what we do. Yes, it's overkill. But so is being 300lbs of muscle. What do the studies show? Pretty much anything they want them to. Because truth be told, they're not even sure how all of this works and what keeps us in homeostasis in terms of general bodyweight. There's no way to quantify that precisely.

Below is a complete list of what we MUST take in. Less than half of the twenty amino acids. Our bodies can make alanine, asparagine, arginine, aspartic acid, glutamic acid, cysteine, glutamine, proline, glycine, serine, and tyrosine as needed.

Essential Fluids:
Water

Essential Amino Acids:
Isoleucine
Histadine
Leucine
Lysine
Methionine
Phenylalanine
Tryptophan
Theonine
Valine

Essential Fatty Acids:
Alpha-linolenic acid
Linoleic acid

Essential Vitamins:
Vitamin A
Vitamin B1, B2, B3, B5, B6, B7, B9, B12
Vitamin C
Vitamin E
Vitamin K
Choline

Essential Minerals:
Calcium
Chloride
Chromium
Copper
Iodine
Iron
Magnesium
Manganese
Molybdenum
Phosphorus
Potassium
Selenium
Sodium
Zinc

 

[Cerberus777]

Name one credible case of a low-protein bodybuilding competitor. If they say they are, I would just chalk it up as another story to shock people or get people talking. That excerpt from Justin's book is complete nonsense. First, applying the laws of thermodynamics to dieting as if the body were a closed system is just beyond silly. Does that mean the laws of thermodynamics don't apply to the body? Of course not. But good luck figuring out what those numbers are.

Your body handles all macros and micros very, very differently. Fiber isn't digested at all and I assure you it has calories. Anything that isn't digested fully in the digestive tract goes out the the back and if did absorb properly into the blood but can't be used fast enough it passes in the urine (e.g. sugars, proteins, albumin, ammonia, chlorophyll, you name it).

Protein may or may not be digested depending on extremely variable absorption rates from individual to individual and under wildly varying conditions. Saying things like, "He eats a pound of protein per day but he doesn't gain a pound of muscle per day," is completely lacking a full overview of the complexities of body maintenance, cell repair, food burned as energy, even the heat that we radiate, etc. Your body can make pretty much every thing it needs except a few EAAs, fatty acids, and trace vitamins and minerals.

We can convert protein to carbs, fats to carbs, carbs to fats, build amino acids all based on chemical signaling and genetics by the highly complex systems of the body depending on what your body needs at that moment. You lose calories in so many ways in the form of work and heat, cell repair, energy storage (e.g. fat, glycogen, etc). Plus your body can add calories to your body by itself by cannibalizing fat and muscle.

A high protein diet is just simply necessary to what we do. Yes, it's overkill. But so is being 300lbs of muscle. What do the studies show? Pretty much anything they want them to. Because truth be told, they're not even sure how all of this works and what keeps us in homeostasis in terms of general bodyweight. There's no way to quantify that precisely.

Below is a complete list of what we MUST take in. Less than half of the twenty amino acids. Our bodies can make alanine, asparagine, arginine, aspartic acid, glutamic acid, cysteine, glutamine, proline, glycine, serine, and tyrosine as needed.

Essential Fluids:
Water

Essential Amino Acids:
Isoleucine
Histadine
Leucine
Lysine
Methionine
Phenylalanine
Tryptophan
Theonine
Valine

Essential Fatty Acids:
Alpha-linolenic acid
Linoleic acid

Essential Vitamins:
Vitamin A
Vitamin B1, B2, B3, B5, B6, B7, B9, B12
Vitamin C
Vitamin E
Vitamin K
Choline

Essential Minerals:
Calcium
Chloride
Chromium
Copper
Iodine
Iron
Magnesium
Manganese
Molybdenum
Phosphorus
Potassium
Selenium
Sodium
Zinc

Quoting you because you mentioned something most don't think about. The body doesn't want to hold on to muscle because it is metabolically demanding. Most of the protein eaten isn't building new muscle its maintaining what we have. We are constantly competing with protein turnover it's much higher if we have more lean mass than our genetics and natural hormones can maintain. Drugs, training, protein and calories are required just to hold 20-80lbs(some of us evenmore) extra we're trying to hold on to. Training intensely and hormones trigger new growth but it slows down the more muscle we accrue. This is why most naturally muscular guys are also fat. Their metabolism is slower and can support more muscle.

 

[marssel]

Looking at studies, there seems to be almost zero adverse outcomes a surplus of protein.

The Effects of Overfeeding on Body Composition: The Role of Macronutrient Composition – A Narrative Review

Compared to investigations on hypocaloric diets, the effects of chronic overfeeding have been less studied. It has been posited that consuming calories in excess of daily caloric requirements will result in a gain in body weight and in particular fat ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

I just found this study today and it’s super interesting. People partaking in resistance training all lost fat AND gained muscle in a calorie surplus. Almost in a linear manner, the more they are protein the better. Even in the 800 calorie surplus group in the charts at the bottom, they lost fat.

Why are there people pushing more moderate protein diets or higher carb?

These days I’d say cost it’s almost twice as expensive to eat as it wears 2 years ago.