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Why bodybuilder deaths are increasing and how to fix this

The amount of people using gear has increased but has the overall percentage of death amongst gear users gone up?

20 years ago who was talking about bloodwork, telmisartan, ezetimibe, nebivolol, emphasis on cardio, not getting too fat in the off season etc…?

While the overall death rates may be up I think the health consciousness and overall mortality has increased amongst gear users relative to the amount of users.
 
I think it’s really fucking simple. Way too much drugs, wayc to high of doses high blood pressure and guys and girls NEVER come off now days. Cycling is not blasting and cruising. Lol just fucking flat out abuse. Bodybuilding isn’t a sport. It’s a drug fueled beauty pageant…….of it was a sport you wouldn’t religion drugs for everything. Drugs have replaced common sense and alot of the discipline and hard work. Guys are looking worse than they ever have. Bubble guts, fat faces, no death faces…
 
The amount of people using gear has increased but has the overall percentage of death amongst gear users gone up?

20 years ago who was talking about bloodwork, telmisartan, ezetimibe, nebivolol, emphasis on cardio, not getting too fat in the off season etc…?

While the overall death rates may be up I think the health consciousness and overall mortality has increased amongst gear users relative to the amount of users.
*Decreased
 
Now I’m not saying you’re gonna be 300lbs lean on 500mg of test but if you have to use grams and grams + everything else to be a semi decent offseason 240lbs then you’ve picked the wrong hobby IN MY OPINION

I will speak for 99% of us - is it worth going way over the top with drugs to achieve essentially very mediocre physique in the grand scheme of competitive bodybuilding in exchange for maybe decades of our lives when we potentially could achieve the same with a much smaller price to pay? For me the answer is no … guess I’m not hardcore 🤷‍♂️

I’ve been saying this for a long time, and when I’ve raised it in the past, the pushback usually falls into two camps:

  1. “Don’t crush people’s dreams. You’ve got to go all-in. Man up.”
  2. “You’re lying—maybe you use lower doses now, but you didn’t before.”

Both reactions are disappointing, just in different ways.

Bodybuilding is an extremely genetically dependent pursuit, arguably the most genetically dependent of all sports. It’s not just about visible traits like height or leverage, but about how an individual’s body and mind tolerate the drugs required to compete at a truly high level.

And I’m emphasizing high level deliberately. There are plenty of people running pro-debut drug protocols for their first local show, not to mention the gym rats and TikTok kids blasting obscene amounts of gear before they’re even adults. That’s not who this is about. I’m talking about people who genuinely aspire to be great bodybuilders and to accomplish something meaningful to them.

Because of this genetic reality, most will not make it. The vast majority, in fact especially now that the field is exponentially larger than it was 30, 20, or even 10 years ago.

Accepting that is soul-crushing for many. Realizing that no amount of effort, discipline, or suffering will get you to the very top, by which I mean elite pro status, not just being a “good” bodybuilder is deeply uncomfortable. But it’s a truth that has to be faced.

You can still live the lifestyle. Train hard. Compete. Enjoy the process. Take pride in what you build.
Just understand that you’re not going to be Mr. Olympia—or even top 20—and that this is okay. Bodybuilding is one part of life, not the measure of your worth.
 
Bro, I tell you like this. What you say shows your mindset, and you honestly don’t have any joy from bodybuilding.

You should enjoy the process. Just the fact that you can do it, that you can improve. But you have only one thought in your head: that you will never be as good as the guys in the top 10 at Mr. Olympia.
So what?
Think about it like this: even getting a pro card is a tiny fraction of the whole world. We have over 8 billion people. If you get a pro card, you are literally a small fraction of a percent. You are elite.
And top 10 Mr. Olympia? That is not even “elite”. That’s like elite of the elite. It’s another universe.
People need to give themselves some credit sometimes. Look how far you got, and be grateful for what life gave you, however you want to call it.

Enjoy what you do. Don’t torture yourself only because you are not at the absolute top. That’s not the point.
And when you finally reach “the top”, you often realize the top was not the real goal. The best part was the whole road to it.
This is pure gold and i think every bodybuilder should save that post and read it every day to remind himself to just enjoy the procces, we all started this beacuse we fucking like training and later in the road started to be obsessive and losing sleep about what works the best (drugs,training,food timing etc) and lose the enjoyment of training and process thining about small things.
Like Luki said we should enjoy the process of all this and be thankful that we can actually do it, enjoy the road.
 
Yep definitely some over analysis for sure but as annoying as it can be if it can save me from future regret (doing stupid drug things) I’ll take it . Just stuck in the never ending cycle (lol) of what’s going to give me the best results but I believe I’m close to figuring it out and realistically it’s just realistic expectations and time

Totally agree on enjoying the moment and all that it brings as opposed to solely relying on an end result that probably won’t even happen to finally enjoy it

You’re right but I do think we’re in a time now with information and options that if we wreck our health it’s through stupidity rather than lack of knowledge.

We can have a fair idea via many tests what damage we’re doing and how to prevent a whole lot of it and we’ve endless examples and reasons why crazy drug protocols aren’t the answer
which should mean we can do this healthier than ever but whether that ends up being the case who knows
I think you need a reality check. For you to achieve the level of development that you have after only 3 years of doing things properly, is elite genetics. Imagine what you will look like after another 7 years of not missing a meal, an hour or sleep, a workout and an injection.

That is the main secret - consistency, not genetics.
 
I think you need a reality check. For you to achieve the level of development that you have after only 3 years of doing things properly, is elite genetics. Imagine what you will look like after another 7 years of not missing a meal, an hour or sleep, a workout and an injection.

That is the main secret - consistency, not genetics.

You probably are right I may well just be out of touch of what is actually good genetics even in terms of elite genetics there’s still tiers I think everyone who becomes a decent pro is elite but they’re still infinite levels away from say a Phil/ronnie etc

But in reality nearly 3 years in and

0-18 months spent changing everything every 5 minutes as so new to it but still managed to make my best progress to date

About 7/8 months of year 2 spent natural on bunk gear following totally incorrect diet and training for myself

Then and for the last 4 months everything’s been at the level where it needs to be for about another 2/3/4+ years to really make significant progress

So yes overall whilst there’s many freaks out there who are better I am definitely above average which is super fortunate

When I first started I didn’t even know about genetics and just trained believing if I dedicated myself long enough I’d accomplish it all. But then early on someone kept telling me I didn’t have the genetics and was wasting my time and there’s been a few since (albeit not many) . I think it’s about time I just went back to blissful ignorance of potential and whatever will be will be and enjoy the process without the end result being the main concern 😅
 
You probably are right I may well just be out of touch of what is actually good genetics even in terms of elite genetics there’s still tiers I think everyone who becomes a decent pro is elite but they’re still infinite levels away from say a Phil/ronnie etc

But in reality nearly 3 years in and

0-18 months spent changing everything every 5 minutes as so new to it but still managed to make my best progress to date

About 7/8 months of year 2 spent natural on bunk gear following totally incorrect diet and training for myself

Then and for the last 4 months everything’s been at the level where it needs to be for about another 2/3/4+ years to really make significant progress

So yes overall whilst there’s many freaks out there who are better I am definitely above average which is super fortunate

When I first started I didn’t even know about genetics and just trained believing if I dedicated myself long enough I’d accomplish it all. But then early on someone kept telling me I didn’t have the genetics and was wasting my time and there’s been a few since (albeit not many) . I think it’s about time I just went back to blissful ignorance of potential and whatever will be will be and enjoy the process without the end result being the main concern 😅
Man, I will be honest. You can be mad at me or not. I’m just honest.
I work with people for about 15 years. In this time I learned a lot about how people think. I’m not saying I’m some amazing expert, but I’m pretty good at reading people, because I have contact with them every day. I see how they act and how they react. I’m also a good observer by nature.

So I will tell you this. I read your posts and you are always overthinking. Everyone already told you that you make things too complicated. You know it too. But the problem is something else.

You can get angry, but I will write it because nobody else will say it. I’m honest. People can like me or not, but I’m honest. I’m not trying to be a dick but if you want you can call me a dick, lol.
Anyway, you are looking for validation. All the time. Even when people tell you that you are not average and you don’t have average genetics, you still come back to the same topic. And it looks like you do it because you want people to lift you up and say again: “no bro, you have great genetics, you have this, you have that.” You want them to keep saying it. You want human approval.
Bro, slow down a bit, because I can see you think about this so much you probably can’t sleep at night.

We live in times where many people (I don’t say it as an insult) have real issues with themselves. They think too much and complicate too much, instead of being happy they are healthy. Two healthy arms, two healthy legs, you wake up, you open your eyes, you can see, you can do things. If you have health, you have everything.
There are people who don’t have that. People who can’t see, who don’t have arms or legs, who can’t stand up alone, who are disabled. If you were in that situation, you would understand how much you have right now.
So appreciate what you have. Stop searching for validation. You should know your own value.


That’s it from me. A bit long, I know. You can treat me like a dick if you want, but someone had to tell you.
 
3 things that are true:

1. You can always find a person who has it worse off then you.

2. At a young age, your body has more resilience. Some more then others.

3. Your priorities change when you get older or you won't get older.

My priorities have changed. Now I strive to live past the average age of death. I know that sounds morbid, but it gives me a reality check.
 
What you’ve said in regards to dosages and your experience seems to be the findings of many I think some don’t admit it because it may mean the dreams over whilst others can accept it and enjoy the process anyway

And you’re right in regards to genetics when I refer to myself as average I’m
Referring to what I believe is required genetic wise to be a successful ifbb pro I honestly don’t believe (really do hope I’m wrong) that I have the potential to achieve something like that

However successful ifbb pro’s represent a microscopic % of the population and compared to that I believe I am better than many but worse than a few as a massive generalisation seeing how I respond to things etc so that puts me in a very fortunate position that many don’t have. I do agree though not having genetics to be a top 10 pro show competitor doesn’t automatically mean you’re average there’s many people who won’t crack top 10 at a local show who put a lot of effort in so it’s just contextual
Dude you’ve only been training for 3 years???? You’re out of your mind. Out of your friggin mind. You are hyoooooge. I’ve been training for over 20 with somewhat minimal progress. Even with gear I just seem to cap off at a certain size pretty fast. I lift because I enjoy it and that’s all. I’m not competing. You my friend have potential.
 
The post about not being able to crack top 10 at a pro show is hilarious to me.

Grading/judging yourself against the top echelon of an endeavor is a fools game.

Guess I am throwing out my guitar that I have been trying to learn for just over a decade as I will never be a top 100 player ;)
 
Bro, I tell you like this. What you say shows your mindset, and you honestly don’t have any joy from bodybuilding…

…You should enjoy the process. Just the fact that you can do it, that you can improve.
And when you finally reach “the top”, you often realize the top was not the real goal. The best part was the whole road to it.
Beautifully put, Luki-🔥👍

No one climbs Mount Everest just for the view- it’s the experience of the climb that makes it worthwhile. If not- why try to climb in the first place?
 
Man, I will be honest. You can be mad at me or not. I’m just honest.
I work with people for about 15 years. In this time I learned a lot about how people think. I’m not saying I’m some amazing expert, but I’m pretty good at reading people, because I have contact with them every day. I see how they act and how they react. I’m also a good observer by nature.

So I will tell you this. I read your posts and you are always overthinking. Everyone already told you that you make things too complicated. You know it too. But the problem is something else.

You can get angry, but I will write it because nobody else will say it. I’m honest. People can like me or not, but I’m honest. I’m not trying to be a dick but if you want you can call me a dick, lol.
Anyway, you are looking for validation. All the time. Even when people tell you that you are not average and you don’t have average genetics, you still come back to the same topic. And it looks like you do it because you want people to lift you up and say again: “no bro, you have great genetics, you have this, you have that.” You want them to keep saying it. You want human approval.
Bro, slow down a bit, because I can see you think about this so much you probably can’t sleep at night.

We live in times where many people (I don’t say it as an insult) have real issues with themselves. They think too much and complicate too much, instead of being happy they are healthy. Two healthy arms, two healthy legs, you wake up, you open your eyes, you can see, you can do things. If you have health, you have everything.
There are people who don’t have that. People who can’t see, who don’t have arms or legs, who can’t stand up alone, who are disabled. If you were in that situation, you would understand how much you have right now.
So appreciate what you have. Stop searching for validation. You should know your own value.


That’s it from me. A bit long, I know. You can treat me like a dick if you want, but someone had to tell you.

Extremely good post and I 10000000% agree with you

I think there is a degree of looking for external validation to tell me that this endeavour won’t be a totally pointless one in the sense of never being able to achieve anything of significance competitively regardless of effort which in reality time is the only thing that can tell us and our own expectations need to be in alignment with what’s possible

And in regards to being greatful in general I completely agree it’s very easy to forget what really matters in life
 
The amount of people using gear has increased but has the overall percentage of death amongst gear users gone up?

20 years ago who was talking about bloodwork, telmisartan, ezetimibe, nebivolol, emphasis on cardio, not getting too fat in the off season etc…?

While the overall death rates may be up I think the health consciousness and overall mortality has increased amongst gear users relative to the amount of users.
This is a very important point- I saw the episode, and my coach and our group have discussed this analysis- but I don’t recall if they accounted for the far larger number of people involved in bodybuilding overall- and another thing, amateur non professional bodybuilders had better all cause mortality rates than the general population by a wide margin in every way other than sudden cardiovascular death- and even then, it was no different than gen pop. That should make people think. The vast majority of sudden death in pros is around peak week and after, where they are literally doing every single stressful thing all at once- diuretics, caloric restriction, water manipulation , high PED load over time, sleep deprivation, high fatigue…

 
Extremely good post and I 10000000% agree with you

I think there is a degree of looking for external validation to tell me that this endeavour won’t be a totally pointless one in the sense of never being able to achieve anything of significance competitively regardless of effort which in reality time is the only thing that can tell us and our own expectations need to be in alignment with what’s possible

And in regards to being greatful in general I completely agree it’s very easy to forget what really matters in life
The brutal truth - the whole world doesn't give a damn about you and your life lol.
So be a man, have some balls, and decide what you really want in life. I understand if you were 20, you have the right to change your mind every now and then because you're looking for your place in the world, but you're 33, so it's time to start having a vision of what truly makes you happy in life and have the courage to pursue it.

No matter what you do in life, there's a risk it won't work out and you won't get anywhere, but if you don't try, you'll never see, and one day you'll wake up as a 60-year-old guy who suddenly realized that because of fear, he didn't try what he wanted in life, and now he has no chance, and all he can do is think "what if..."

Fuck it - have the courage to live and do what makes you happy.
 
I think maybe I represent a good 2nd example of people who need to realise crazy gear protocols aren’t the best

1: guys who don’t have the genetics to get the results they want so they just fall into the thing of believing (hoping) that the big guys are just gatekeeping secrets of big dosages is what it takes so just go down that never ending rabbit of hole of searching for the “secret” drug/dose/diet/training etc and can’t/wont except there’s no secret they just need to align their expectations with their potential and effort level (these guys can be furiously dedicated and often are)

2: where I fall where potential isn’t the biggest issue but lack of knowledge, listening to too many influences and impatience/confusion resulting in doing unnecessary things when just sticking to
Sensible things for a longer period of time is the answer

As stated and very truthfully dosages are relative but it’s a IFYKYK kinda deal we all know what’s higher but potentially required but we also know what’s just going overboard

If this thread can help atleast one person save themselves from falling down these pitfalls then it’s worth it - learn from my retardisation
 
This is a very important point- I saw the episode, and my coach and our group have discussed this analysis- but I don’t recall if they accounted for the far larger number of people involved in bodybuilding overall- and another thing, amateur non professional bodybuilders had better all cause mortality rates than the general population by a wide margin in every way other than sudden cardiovascular death- and even then, it was no different than gen pop. That should make people think. The vast majority of sudden death in pros is around peak week and after, where they are literally doing every single stressful thing all at once- diuretics, caloric restriction, water manipulation , high PED load over time, sleep deprivation, high fatigue…

Paul is you coach?
 

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