Why bodybuilder deaths are increasing and how to fix this

[pesty4077]

The brutal truth - the whole world doesn't give a damn about you and your life lol.
So be a man, have some balls, and decide what you really want in life. I understand if you were 20, you have the right to change your mind every now and then because you're looking for your place in the world, but you're 33, so it's time to start having a vision of what truly makes you happy in life and have the courage to pursue it.

No matter what you do in life, there's a risk it won't work out and you won't get anywhere, but if you don't try, you'll never see, and one day you'll wake up as a 60-year-old guy who suddenly realized that because of fear, he didn't try what he wanted in life, and now he has no chance, and all he can do is think "what if..."

Fuck it - have the courage to live and do what makes you happy.

One of the better posts on Promuscle.

 

[Tomgrass]

Bro, I tell you like this. What you say shows your mindset, and you honestly don’t have any joy from bodybuilding.

You should enjoy the process. Just the fact that you can do it, that you can improve. But you have only one thought in your head: that you will never be as good as the guys in the top 10 at Mr. Olympia.
So what?
Think about it like this: even getting a pro card is a tiny fraction of the whole world. We have over 8 billion people. If you get a pro card, you are literally a small fraction of a percent. You are elite.
And top 10 Mr. Olympia? That is not even “elite”. That’s like elite of the elite. It’s another universe.
People need to give themselves some credit sometimes. Look how far you got, and be grateful for what life gave you, however you want to call it.

Enjoy what you do. Don’t torture yourself only because you are not at the absolute top. That’s not the point.
And when you finally reach “the top”, you often realize the top was not the real goal. The best part was the whole road to it.

Totally agree - once you reach a goal you need another one -this is human nature - hundreds of thousands years ago we did not said: oh what an amazing cave this is i am good i dont need anything else- we always wanted more.

 

[TheOtherOne55]

Traininsane and I talk a lot.
We talked when he was higher dosage.
We talked when he was lower dosage.
So at least I kinda know he train of thought, no pun intended. But I think we need to put to bed several things because the average PM viewer here is getting a warped idea.
1. Luki is right. You have very good genetics but as Luki said, I think you are looking for YES’ in the crowd and validation regarding all your decisions. That’s fine and it’s actually better that YOU yourself know this.
2. You finally dieted down 3 years ago. But you had been training, albeit as a PLer, for yearrrs before. I think you’ve built up this idea of, “well I’ve only been training for 3 years,” and then gotten so many “only 3 years?!” responses. No, that’s incorrect. Pa (RIP) was the same way. It doesn’t mean he hadn’t traiined… it just meant he hadn’t peeled off the bodyfat until way later. I think this whole, “only 3 years training and u look like this?!” Thing has actually huuurt your mindset and limited u.

And when u and I talk, we keep it real with each other. I think you need to figure out if u love this thing or not, BBing that is. Because if you truly love this, you will justify it FOR YOURSELF. Not for PM members, not looking for other people to pat you on the back and agree with whatever decision you’ve made that day. You will just go with what YOU want. I’m not saying you shouldn’t take advice and just make dumb decisions. But you will make yourrr informed decision and you wont have to worry about the outside factors.

This high dosage thing has been talked about to fuckin death on here. We don’t need to keep rehashing if 4g is more dangerous than 1.5g, we all know the damn answer. Take what you can handle, make smart decisions, and then do that for a longgg time period. If that happens to give you a pro quality physique, so be it.

 

[traininsane11]

Traininsane and I talk a lot.
We talked when he was higher dosage.
We talked when he was lower dosage.
So at least I kinda know he train of thought, no pun intended. But I think we need to put to bed several things because the average PM viewer here is getting a warped idea.
1. Luki is right. You have very good genetics but as Luki said, I think you are looking for YES’ in the crowd and validation regarding all your decisions. That’s fine and it’s actually better that YOU yourself know this.
2. You finally dieted down 3 years ago. But you had been training, albeit as a PLer, for yearrrs before. I think you’ve built up this idea of, “well I’ve only been training for 3 years,” and then gotten so many “only 3 years?!” responses. No, that’s incorrect. Pa (RIP) was the same way. It doesn’t mean he hadn’t traiined… it just meant he hadn’t peeled off the bodyfat until way later. I think this whole, “only 3 years training and u look like this?!” Thing has actually huuurt your mindset and limited u.

And when u and I talk, we keep it real with each other. I think you need to figure out if u love this thing or not, BBing that is. Because if you truly love this, you will justify it FOR YOURSELF. Not for PM members, not looking for other people to pat you on the back and agree with whatever decision you’ve made that day. You will just go with what YOU want. I’m not saying you shouldn’t take advice and just make dumb decisions. But you will make yourrr informed decision and you wont have to worry about the outside factors.

This high dosage thing has been talked about to fuckin death on here. We don’t need to keep rehashing if 4g is more dangerous than 1.5g, we all know the damn answer. Take what you can handle, make smart decisions, and then do that for a longgg time period. If that happens to give you a pro quality physique, so be it.

This is true I’ve been bodybuilding for nearly 3 years now but I started powerlifting about 2 years prior so all in all close to 5 years experience now albeit the first 2 with powerlifting I didn’t follow a diet or drug protocol i just followed a powerlifting programme then prior to all that just a general trainer I suppose doing various types of workouts but no drug or diet protocols so I’m not a total newbie well maybe just mentally

You definitely make valid points though as do many on here unless it’s directly your livelihood then you have to do it solely for the love of it which I do genuinely do enjoy it and I think I need to realise that’s a good enough reason I don’t need to justify it by having some grand end goal or financial kickback - just because I enjoy the process is reason enough to do it

Super basic analogy but kinda like driving to a destination you can enjoy the journey but it’s nice to get reassurance you’re driving in the right direction as you go

 

[plane]

whenever i see a post from traininsane i just think here we go, another whiny overthinking - completely in your head type of post.

god youre so fucking whiny, you've made 1.3k posts in rapid time, just stfu and train. you are a mental masturbator with anxiety

i really dont think youre health conscious either because, you dont even eat any red meat, you shop the bare minimum poorly at aldi

you think and read about bodybuilding more than you bodybuild, its just simple - there is no secret, you know everything there is to know and if you don't, you can hire some fucker who does know the protocol you want.

you need more income and to throw more money at it, you need to throw more time at it, its big fat fucks like you who can be an open bodybuilder nowadays

keep it simple, it would be really good if you just injected your shit; trained, ate your meals - year round and had some other hobbies so you wouldnt feel the need to talk about your feelings or opinions so much

youve got all the potential in the world to be a pro bodybuilder, but youre so annoying

 

[traininsane11]

whenever i see a post from traininsane i just think here we go, another whiny overthinking - completely in your head type of post.

god youre so fucking whiny, you've made 1.3k posts in rapid time, just stfu and train. you are a mental masturbator with anxiety

i really dont think youre health conscious either because, you dont even eat any red meat, you shop the bare minimum poorly at aldi

you think and read about bodybuilding more than you bodybuild, its just simple - there is no secret, you know everything there is to know and if you don't, you can hire some fucker who does know the protocol you want.

you need more income and to throw more money at it, you need to throw more time at it, its big fat fucks like you who can be an open bodybuilder nowadays

keep it simple, it would be really good if you just injected your shit; trained, ate your meals - year round and had some other hobbies so you wouldnt feel the need to talk about your feelings or opinions so much

youve got all the potential in the world to be a pro bodybuilder, but youre so annoying

This was a weird post and somewhat unnecessary

It’s one thing to insult me that’s absolutely fine but how dare you go after Aldi what did they ever do to you?!?

 

[plane]

This was a weird post and somewhat unnecessary

It’s one thing to insult me that’s absolutely fine but how dare you go after Aldi what did they ever do to you?!?

I dont wish bad on you dont worry about that lol. one part of your post was talking about making an income with it, you most definitely can leverage your current physique to make money online. Especially with the amount you post/think about bodybuilding, its almost wasted here. Every thought you share with us is a thought you can share in video form on social media and reap rewards for it.

Its cringe. but nobody cares what anybody else does, look out for yourself

 

[Swifto]

whenever i see a post from traininsane i just think here we go, another whiny overthinking - completely in your head type of post.

god youre so fucking whiny, you've made 1.3k posts in rapid time, just stfu and train. you are a mental masturbator with anxiety

i really dont think youre health conscious either because, you dont even eat any red meat, you shop the bare minimum poorly at aldi

you think and read about bodybuilding more than you bodybuild, its just simple - there is no secret, you know everything there is to know and if you don't, you can hire some fucker who does know the protocol you want.

you need more income and to throw more money at it, you need to throw more time at it, its big fat fucks like you who can be an open bodybuilder nowadays

keep it simple, it would be really good if you just injected your shit; trained, ate your meals - year round and had some other hobbies so you wouldnt feel the need to talk about your feelings or opinions so much

youve got all the potential in the world to be a pro bodybuilder, but youre so annoying

Completely unnecessary.

Dont open threads and comment if you dont like it.

 

[buck]

The number of people that give any real crap about me is small.
I do what i do for me. When i was younger noise could influence me. Just part of growing up for those that chose to grow up.
Living to be a decrepit old man is not my goal just being what i can is the plan these days but that could change too.
If i am not willing to change my mind it means i have a closed mind or my thinking is perfect and there is no room to improve.
Chatting with a buddy at the gym the other day and he brought up that his friend died in an avalanche while snowboarding in the backcountry. I figured that was a life well lived, others may think different. But it beats dieing on the toilet at work which i know of 2 guys that have.
My biggest regrets in life are the things i didn't do. But there is not a lot of them.
These days if there is something i want i do it. I think it through the best i can and do it. I can always change my mind later.
I have the rest of my life to be me the best i can.

 

[DOGGCRAPP]

Ive said it in the past that some of the bodybuilders I have seen make the best gains muscle mass wise are people who are "BUSY". Meaning they dont have the time to overthink, over analyze, and over complicate things. They just follow a plan and they are like i said "extremely busy" such as a college age athlete hypothetically
7am i eat
730 i start school
10 am i drink protein shake and small meal
12 noon out of school
1230 i eat lunch
1pm i go to gym
230pm done
3pm post workout meal
330-530 errands and study
545pm drink protein drink and eat nuts on drive to work
6pm work
9pm eat meal on my break
10pm off work and go to bed maybe small protein meal or drink if still hungry
Sometimes being really busy lends itself to unbelievable consistency and not overthinking everything which 2 years later results in massive gains in muscle mass because you were too busy to screw it all up.

 

[traininsane11]

Ive said it in the past that some of the bodybuilders I have seen make the best gains muscle mass wise are people who are "BUSY". Meaning they dont have the time to overthink, over analyze, and over complicate things. They just follow a plan and they are like i said "extremely busy" such as a college age athlete hypothetically
7am i eat
730 i start school
10 am i drink protein shake and small meal
12 noon out of school
1230 i eat lunch
1pm i go to gym
230pm done
3pm post workout meal
330-530 errands and study
545pm drink protein drink and eat nuts on drive to work
6pm work
9pm eat meal on my break
10pm off work and go to bed maybe small protein meal or drink if still hungry
Sometimes being really busy lends itself to unbelievable consistency and not overthinking everything which 2 years later results in massive gains in muscle mass because you were too busy to screw it all up.

This makes a lot of sense. Bodybuilding is such a long process overall that once you tick the boxes (of which don’t need to be complicated ) it’s just a time thing and no matter what we do we can’t really speed it up

As a computer analogy bodybuilding works best when it’s just a programme running in the background whilst you do other stuff

It definitely requires structure and dedication but probably far less thought than may of is give it

 

[Josefein421]

Completely unnecessary.

Dont open threads and comment if you dont like it.

Might have been worded harshly and perhaps not politely but the sentiment is not that far off.

 

[traininsane11]

It seems unfortunate that a post showcasing a video by 3 very smart coaches promoting doing this whole thing as safely as possible and then me describing my own situation to show how I’ve reached the conclusion that it can be done in a less extreme manner turned into such a personal thing

Whilst I don’t disagree with virtually everything that’s been said that wasn’t the reason for this thread

I was hoping to help others see things from a different perspective .

There’s guys on here who are running crazy crazy cycles without anywhere near the physiques to show for it mostly out of ignorance who we could probably help (if they’re open to help) but they won’t post because nearly always these threads turn into some form of personal attack unless you’re very well established either on here or as a high level bodybuilder and I know this because some of them message me directly

It’s become very normal now to bash anyone running high dosages on here as I mentioned prior it’s become professional trt and longevity not professional muscle which I think is a mega shame as this was literally the only decent forum left where hardcore bodybuilders could collect real world info and have proper discussion with similar people

Each poster/thread should be treated completely relative to that person/thread in my opinion and other than deliberate trolls shouldn’t be met with any hostility otherwise this forum will die off like the rest it’s virtually the same handful of people posting now.. Christ I must make up 50% of the content myself

In a nutshell

Make PM great again

 

[Swifto]

Might have been worded harshly and perhaps not politely but the sentiment is not that far off.

I can see what he was trying to say, the delivery and use of language was poor.

 

[luki7788]

Each poster/thread should be treated completely relative to that person/thread in my opinion and other than deliberate trolls shouldn’t be met with any hostility otherwise this forum will die off like the rest it’s virtually the same handful of people posting now.. Christ I must make up 50% of the content myself

In a nutshell

Make PM great again

With all respect, but that’s exactly what happened in this thread. People answered it in a very personal way, directly for the person who started it.
Sometimes you say something at a certain moment, and it can be the right moment or the wrong moment, depending on who you ask. And then at some point the limit is reached, and a chain reaction starts. You hear things you don’t want to hear, but often they are true, or close to the truth, because someone is simply fed up and says: “enough, this guy needs to hear the truth.” And that’s exactly what happened here.

So don’t blame anyone, because you started it yourself. This post was just the spark that lit up all the rest of your previous comments. And as you can see, it’s not only me who noticed it. Other people see it too: you overthink too much.

That’s it. No need to make it longer. Everything has already been said. And don't take me the wrong way – people often think I'm a dick when they hear my honesty, but sometimes, even years later, they'll come to me and say, "Damn, you were right then, but I didn't want to listen and admit to myself that what you were saying had a lot of truth to it."

I wrote all of this for your own good, even though you might feel differently now.

 

[SouthernMuscle]

whenever i see a post from traininsane i just think here we go, another whiny overthinking - completely in your head type of post.

god youre so fucking whiny, you've made 1.3k posts in rapid time, just stfu and train. you are a mental masturbator with anxiety

i really dont think youre health conscious either because, you dont even eat any red meat, you shop the bare minimum poorly at aldi

you think and read about bodybuilding more than you bodybuild, its just simple - there is no secret, you know everything there is to know and if you don't, you can hire some fucker who does know the protocol you want.

you need more income and to throw more money at it, you need to throw more time at it, its big fat fucks like you who can be an open bodybuilder nowadays

keep it simple, it would be really good if you just injected your shit; trained, ate your meals - year round and had some other hobbies so you wouldnt feel the need to talk about your feelings or opinions so much

youve got all the potential in the world to be a pro bodybuilder, but youre so annoying

Pretty sure you two are in the same country, which aint that big. Should plan a training session so you can air your grievances. Might learn something

 

[qbkilla]

This was a weird post and somewhat unnecessary

It’s one thing to insult me that’s absolutely fine but how dare you go after Aldi what did they ever do to you?!?

I see aldi mentioned

1. Took out the self checkouts so lines are 20 minutes minimum
2. Stopped carrying the only semi healthy salmon and now only carry shit salmon
3. Only stock disgusting green bananas never ripe
3. Typically out of most meat or fish any healthy person would buy (lean stuff).
4. Never in stock cottage cheese, shitty low quality eggs
5. Stopped carrying sardines that list calories on the can
6. Shitty small ugly peaches
7. When I used to buy the frozen cauliflower were always out
8. When I used to buy pork they would have the same cut listed at way more calories per serving than a week prior

/My contribution to the thread

 

[hawkmoon]

It seems unfortunate that a post showcasing a video by 3 very smart coaches promoting doing this whole thing as safely as possible and then me describing my own situation to show how I’ve reached the conclusion that it can be done in a less extreme manner turned into such a personal thing

Whilst I don’t disagree with virtually everything that’s been said that wasn’t the reason for this thread

I was hoping to help others see things from a different perspective .

There’s guys on here who are running crazy crazy cycles without anywhere near the physiques to show for it mostly out of ignorance who we could probably help (if they’re open to help) but they won’t post because nearly always these threads turn into some form of personal attack unless you’re very well established either on here or as a high level bodybuilder and I know this because some of them message me directly

It’s become very normal now to bash anyone running high dosages on here as I mentioned prior it’s become professional trt and longevity not professional muscle which I think is a mega shame as this was literally the only decent forum left where hardcore bodybuilders could collect real world info and have proper discussion with similar people

Each poster/thread should be treated completely relative to that person/thread in my opinion and other than deliberate trolls shouldn’t be met with any hostility otherwise this forum will die off like the rest it’s virtually the same handful of people posting now.. Christ I must make up 50% of the content myself

In a nutshell

Make PM great again

FWIW, I genuinely wasn’t thinking of you when I wrote what I did, you were simply the messenger.

You’re not really an example of what I was criticizing anyway. I actually think you do have the genetics to compete at a higher level, and I also don’t get the impression that you have fixed aspirations for the Olympia stage. If I’m wrong on that, my apologies as I don’t mean that dismissively.

When I mentioned pushback, I was referring specifically to reactions here on PM.
The comments I listed were directed at me by members of this forum, likely because they felt the spotlight was on them, or thought it was, and reacted accordingly.

We have a wide mix of people here: genuinely big guys, strong competitors, some pros (and probably more lurking), and individuals well under 200 lb running two grams of gear. PM isn’t immune to that reality.

As for health outcomes, it’s difficult to prove causation definitively, but it’s not unreasonable to suspect that people abusing PEDs at extreme levels may be dying at higher-than-average rates. When someone is pushing 3–4 grams while having a family history of heart disease, the long-term outcome is fairly predictable.
What really concerns me are the very young guys on TikTok, where the younger they are and the higher the dose, the more engagement they get. Those cases are likely going to be the real tragedies.

As far as getting ahead in this sport, many of us overthink.
I relay what I think JP once said - getting big is simple but it's not easy.

 

[Calf]

Bro, I tell you like this. What you say shows your mindset, and you honestly don’t have any joy from bodybuilding.

You should enjoy the process. Just the fact that you can do it, that you can improve. But you have only one thought in your head: that you will never be as good as the guys in the top 10 at Mr. Olympia.
So what?
Think about it like this: even getting a pro card is a tiny fraction of the whole world. We have over 8 billion people. If you get a pro card, you are literally a small fraction of a percent. You are elite.
And top 10 Mr. Olympia? That is not even “elite”. That’s like elite of the elite. It’s another universe.
People need to give themselves some credit sometimes. Look how far you got, and be grateful for what life gave you, however you want to call it.

Enjoy what you do. Don’t torture yourself only because you are not at the absolute top. That’s not the point.
And when you finally reach “the top”, you often realize the top was not the real goal. The best part was the whole road to it.

The bolded part is so true. Coming from the powerlifting side, I see people constantly lamenting that they genetically don't have what it takes. For example say a 903lb/410kg deadlift ("I'll never hit that, it isn't in the cards for me, why put my effort into powerlifting?"). If one goes to openpowerlifting.org they'll see that only 42* lifters have hit a 900+ deadlift in a full meet ever! Comparison is the thief of joy, especially in comparison to the literal top ~50 people in the history of the sport in the world.


*Mark Henry's meet is the oldest on the list and I know he was the 5th to hit 900 so technically it's probably 47 lifters.

 

[traininsane11]

Stfu . You have a mediocre physique who blasts drugs and your never going to be a pro

ouch