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Why gh before bed?

If taking 5iu a day would 1iu fasted - 2iu pre with humalog 15iu - 2iu post be optimal? also running cjc no dac, imp, ghrp6.

Or would the 1iu fasted almost be a waste? first time running gh so looking for some guidance.
 
If taking 5iu a day would 1iu fasted - 2iu pre with humalog 15iu - 2iu post be optimal? also running cjc no dac, imp, ghrp6.

Or would the 1iu fasted almost be a waste? first time running gh so looking for some guidance.

I would do 2iu fasted and then 3 iu pre workout.
 
Here's what I'll say....


Solid sleep is intrinsic to recovery in all aspects. Studies have shown when using exogenous GH, endogenous production is halted for I believe 48h post dosing. SO, if you're dosing throughout the day and neglecting before bed, it's my logic AND experience that sleep quality is affected because you aren't producing a natural pulse intrinsic to recovery and stage 3 and 4 NREM sleep.

Even if I'm using a large quantity throughout the day I will always place 2iu before bed for this reason--I notice recovery is MUCH improved.
 
Save the peptides for when you come off gh IMO unless you need the appetite increase to eat enough calories.

When you sleep, you're body releases a GH spike because you grow, and recovery while you sleep, your body is most responsive to it. That's why we dose before bed to help our bodies repair and grow.

I personally use it and recommend it be taken at night for these exact reasons. Primarily, it induces frank diabetes and taking a decent GH shot in the morning and trying to eat a moderate-high carbohydrate diet throghout the day is a metabolic conflict of interest. I thinka lot of people take it during the day or in the Am because they think it spares they're natural GH output at night. Once IGF-1 levels hike up past baseline, there are downstream negative feedback cascades mediated via somatostatin which can inhibit some nocturnal release anyway.

However, smaller amounts pre workout and before fasted cardio are defintely effective for fat burning. Has helped me quickly burn up those stubborn fat deposits on the lower back and glutes. I simply changed my GH protocol from using 5iu (pharm) or 10iu (generic) at night, to 2iu pre fasted am cardio, 2iu pre workout and 4-6iu PM before bed. I got really lean doing this without having to increase my amount of cardio at the time.
 
Great post Chemist; dose and food intake/macronutrient ratio are DEFINITELY variables to consider when setting up an optimal protocol.
 
IMO GH is best used 2-3 hours preworkout that way your the GH levels are at their peak right as your finishing your workout which is the most important time

34464d1267139636-hgh-im-injections-139.jpg

agreed.
 
i'm a gh newb, so if i'm only taking 2ius ED does it really matter when i take them?
 
I've always done first thing am and pre-workout as well, I will try the before bed option. The reason I've stayed away from Gh pre bed is i was under the impression that natural gh was only halted for 4 hours and not 48... I would like to try post workout but i take log 30-45 mins pre (1-1.5 hours after Gh shot) and drink an intra workout with carbs. How and would you take gh post workout ? if so what did you guys notice doing it this way ?

Thank you
 
i'm a gh newb, so if i'm only taking 2ius ED does it really matter when i take them?

No. People over think protocols. You'll get results regardless of timing.
If you want natural HGH secretion while sleeping then take your HGH upon waking in a fasted state (If you take it subcutaneously it will keep HGH elevated for at least 12 hours, 7 hours if taken intramuscularly), then take a ghrp/GHRH combo before bed for elevated natural HGH secretion, like GHRP2 with cjc no DAC. Or, take mk677 before bed.
Guys are finding excellent value in adding the oral HGH sexretagogue, mk677 at 25mg before bed. Mk677 has its largest GH pulse 12 hours after administration with additional GH pulses every hour or two. It increases the amplitude of all HGH pulses for its 25 hour half-life.
 
No. People over think protocols. You'll get results regardless of timing.
If you want natural HGH secretion while sleeping then take your HGH upon waking in a fasted state (If you take it subcutaneously it will keep HGH elevated for at least 12 hours, 7 hours if taken intramuscularly), then take a ghrp/GHRH combo before bed for elevated natural HGH secretion, like GHRP2 with cjc no DAC. Or, take mk677 before bed.
Guys are finding excellent value in adding the oral HGH sexretagogue, mk677 at 25mg before bed. Mk677 has its largest GH pulse 12 hours after administration with additional GH pulses every hour or two. It increases the amplitude of all HGH pulses for its 25 hour half-life.

In this study, single sc administration of recombinant 20K-hGH in normal men induced significant elevations in spontaneous serum FFA and IGF-I levels associated with a marked reduction in the serum 22K-hGH level in a different time-dependent manner. hGH secretion is mainly controlled by hypothalamic hormones, GHRH, and somatostatin (18), and also controlled negatively by hGH itself (19, 20, 21) or hGH-dependent substances: IGF-I (21), FFA (23, 24), glucose (18), and so on. The increases in the main hGH-dependent substances (FFA and IGF-I) after 20K-hGH administration suggested that 20K-hGH has direct GH actions on adipose tissue or the liver through hGH receptors similarly to 22K-hGH. Therefore, 20K-hGH is expected to exert GH actions (growth-promoting activity and lipolytic activity) in humans. Furthermore, the suppression of endogenous 22K-hGH secretion could be a result of so-called “GH-induced negative feedback mechanisms.”

We found that the 24-h profile of 20K-hGH secretion in the placebo group was similar to that of 22K-hGH and that the proportion of 20K- to 22K-hGH was fairly constant. These observations suggested that regulation of 20K-hGH secretion is physiologically the same as that of 22K-hGH. Baumann and Stolar (25) suggested that 20K- and 22K-hGH may be stored together in secretory granules in the somatotroph and, hence, released together in response to various stimuli. Our observations support this hypothesis. Furthermore, these results suggested that the endogenous kinetics of 20K-hGH may be comparable with those of 22K-hGH. Interestingly, the pharmaco-kinetics after sc injection of recombinant 20K-hGH were nearly comparable with those of recombinant 22K-hGH (26, 27). In 20K-hGH-treated groups, the serum 20K-hGH levels contained both exogenously administered and endogenously secreted 20K-hGH, but the endogenous 20K-hGH levels were ignored in this study because the mean secreted 20K-hGH levels in the placebo group were fairly low (0.13 ± 0.12 ng/mL). It has been reported that 20K-hGH is cleared more slowly than 22K-hGH in rats (28, 29), but this observation has not been confirmed in guinea pigs (30). These discrepancies may be related to the differences in the species studied (rat, guinea pig, human) and/or assay methods used.

We have demonstrated the time course of the suppressive effect induced by exogenous 20K-hGH on endogenous 22K-hGH secretion in humans. The reduction of serum 22K-hGH level after 20K-hGH administration required a period of ca. 4 h, and the level tended to recover by 24 h. However, the delay in suppression of endogenous 22K-hGH by exogenous 20K-hGH is difficult to define precisely because of the intermittent nature of hGH secretion. Additional studies are required to clarify the time lag between 20K-hGH exposure and suppression of endogenous 22K-hGH. In previous studies (31, 32), single intramuscularly or sc administration of hGH (with monitoring of the resulting plasma profiles) showed a delayed and prolonged suppressive effect on rat GH secretion. The time course of endogenous GH suppression in rats was similar to but faster than that in humans reported here. The fast time course in rats was probably due to the rapid absorption of hGH in this species (14, 33). Willoughby et al. (31) suggested that suppression is achieved through metabolic or other intermediary processes, rather than acutely by a direct membrane effect of the hGH molecule.

The marked suppression of endogenous 22K-hGH secretion occurred in parallel with the FFA elevation; serum FFA levels increased with maximum levels at 4–8 h and recovered by 24 h after 20K-hGH administration. In contrast, serum IGF-I levels increased after 8 h and were prolonged up to 24 h or more, and no increase in circulating glucose levels was observed for 24 h. Our data are consistent with those of Rosenthal et al. (34), who found that 6-h methionyl 22K-hGH infusion raised plasma FFA levels but not IGF-I or glucose levels and blunted GHRH-induced GH secretion in normal men. Of the main hGH-dependent substances, elevation of FFA rather than IGF-I levels may play a leading role at least in the marked 22K-hGH suppression at AUC6–12 h after a single sc administration of 20K-hGH. Administration of FFA markedly reduced the basal GH secretion and blocked GH secretion induced by pharmacological and physiological stimuli in humans (23, 35). Recently, Briard et al. (36) reported that FFA acts both at the hypothalamic level, through increased somatostatin secretion, and at the pituitary level in sheep.

The suppression of 22K-hGH secretion was observed even at the lowest dose of 20K-hGH administered (0.01 mg/kg), with a Cmax of 8.1 ± 4.1 ng/mL. Rosenthal et al. (34) reported that the GHRH-induced GH response in humans was significantly inhibited during 6-h methionyl 22K-hGH infusion, whereas the plasma GH level remained constant (9–13 ng/mL). Therefore, the effect of 20K-hGH on negative feedback may be as potent as that of 22K-hGH.

There are experimental limitations to differentiating between exogenous and endogenous hGH in humans. The time course of GH-induced negative feedback in humans can only be studied indirectly by using the peripheral GH response to GH provocation (21, 34, 37, 38) or the amplitude of sleep-related GH secretion (20) as an indicator of suppression of GH secretion. Our observations extended these studies and indicated that an exogenously administered GH isoform could suppress the other endogenously secreted GH isoform in a time-dependent manner. The proportion of 20K- to 22K-hGH is fairly constant under physiological conditions. Therefore, by measuring the serum 20K- and 22K-hGH levels and using the other hGH isoform as an indicator of the endogenous hGH, it may be possible to monitor the internal behavior of exogenously administered hGH in clinical application of 20K-hGH and, especially, 22K-hGH. Measurement of serum 20K- and 22K-hGH may be useful in evaluating the effects of circulating GH isoforms on their own release from the pituitary.

Previous SectionNext Section
Acknowledgments
We thank Drs. Kohei Yazawa, Fumiaki Ikeda, and Masaru Honjo for advice and encouragement during these studies. We also thank Ms. Noriko Takayama, Ms. Keiko Kawano, and Ms. Hiromi Takeda for technical assistance.

Received August 3, 1999.
Revision received October 12, 1999.
Accepted October 20, 1999.
Previous Section

References

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De Vos AM, Ultsch M, Kossiakoff AA. 1992 Human growth hormone and extracellular domain of its receptor: crystal structure of the complex. Science. 255:306–312.

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Uchida H, Naito N, Asada N, et al. 1997 Secretion of authentic twenty kilodalton human growth hormone (20K hGH) in Escherichia coli and properties of the purified product. J Biotechnol. 55:101–112.

Wada M, Ikeda M, Takahashi Y, et al. 1997 The full agonistic effect of recombinant 20 kDa human growth hormone (hGH) on CHO cells stably transfected with hGH receptor cDNA. Mol Cell Endocrinol. 133:99–107.

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Hashimoto Y, Ikeda I, Ikeda M, et al. 1998 Construction of a specific and sensitive sandwich enzyme immunoassay for 20 kDa human growth hormone. J Immunol Methods. 221:77–85.

Tsushima T, Katoh Y, Miyachi Y, et al. 1999 Serum concentration of 20K human growth hormone (20K hGH) measured by a specific ELISA. J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 84:317–322.

Ishikawa M, Yokoya S, Tachibana K, et al. 1999 Serum levels of 20-kilodalton human growth hormone are parallel with 22-kilodalton human growth hormone in normal and short children. J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 84:98–104.

Berg GVD, Veldhuis JD, Frölich M, Roelfsema F. 1996 An amplitude-specific divergence in the pulsatile mode of growth hormone (GH) secretion underlies the gender difference in mean GH concentrations in men and premenopausal women. J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 81:2460–2467.

Dieguez C, Page MD, Scanlon MF. 1988 Growth hormone neuroregulation and its alterations in disease state. Crin Endocrinol (Oxf). 28:109–143.

Abrams RL, Grumbach MM, Kaplan SL. 1971 The effect of administration of human growth hormone on the plasma growth hormone, cortisol, glucose, and free fatty acid response to insulin : evidence for growth hormone autoregulation in man. J Clin Invest. 50:940–950.

Mendelson WB, Jacobs LS, JC Gillin. 1983 Negative feedback suppression of sleep-related growth hormone secretion. J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 56:486–488.

Pontiroli AE, Lanzi LD, Monti E, Sandoli E, Pozza G. 1991 Growth hormone (GH) autofeedback on GH response to GH-releasing hormone. Role of free fatty acids and somatostatin. J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 72(2):492–495.
Berelowitz M, Szabo M, Frohman LA, Firestone S, Chu L, Hintz RL. 1981 Somatomedin C mediates growth hormone negative feed-back by effects on both hypothalamus and the pituitary. Science. 212:1279–1281.

Casanueva FF, Villanueva L, Dieguez C, et al. 1987 Free fatty acids block growth hormone (GH) releasing hormone-stimulated GH secretion in man directly at the pituitary. J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 65:634–642.

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Does exogenous or endogenous HGH works from day one?

I hear many people that says it takes 3-6 months to feel it. But if you inject yurself in a way that the spike will come during intense training or fasted cardio, isn't HGH anti-catabolic from day 1? Or does it needs some build up?
 
Sometimes, timing is everything.

Let us take cholesterol lowering medication for instance. It is to be taken
in the evening, before bed (in case your doctor never told you so . . . many
don’t, which is irresponsible) because your body produces cholesterol at night,
while you sleep.

While I know nothing about GH (and therefore would avoid it like the plague)
I would refer to the scientific literature for the optimal time for it to be
administered.

But . . . the information you so desire may be difficult, if not impossible to find
as GH is typically prescribed for adolescent growth issues and never for
‘bodybuilding’ issues . . . which, in the grand scheme of things, means next to
nothing to the medical / scientific community (they have bigger fish to fry . . .).

Therefore, I suspect, what information you do find will be purely anecdotal,
although not meaningless. And your mileage will vary.

In the absence of verifiable, legitimate info . . . like Pesty said, don’t overthink it.
 
Does exogenous or endogenous HGH works from day one?

I hear many people that says it takes 3-6 months to feel it. But if you inject yurself in a way that the spike will come during intense training or fasted cardio, isn't HGH anti-catabolic from day 1? Or does it needs some build up?

It works right away, it may take that long to see the visual changes.

Think of it like crack, the first time some one smokes it they don't atuomatically look like a zombie, it takes years of abuse to get that leatherskin look.
 
Sometimes, timing is everything.

Let us take cholesterol lowering medication for instance. It is to be taken
in the evening, before bed (in case your doctor never told you so . . . many
don’t, which is irresponsible) because your body produces cholesterol at night,
while you sleep.

While I know nothing about GH (and therefore would avoid it like the plague)
I would refer to the scientific literature for the optimal time for it to be
administered.

But . . . the information you so desire may be difficult, if not impossible to find
as GH is typically prescribed for adolescent growth issues and never for
‘bodybuilding’ issues . . . which, in the grand scheme of things, means next to
nothing to the medical / scientific community (they have bigger fish to fry . . .).

Therefore, I suspect, what information you do find will be purely anecdotal,
although not meaningless. And your mileage will vary.

In the absence of verifiable, legitimate info . . . like Pesty said, don’t overthink it.
Those are bigger words then i understand:D
 
Well. I take it all in one dose before bed if I want to be more dry and less tired in the day. That's just my experience
 
It works right away, it may take that long to see the visual changes.

Think of it like crack, the first time some one smokes it they don't atuomatically look like a zombie, it takes years of abuse to get that leatherskin look.

Thanks, if I go for some HIIT sessions in the morning, I guess that a GRF/GHRP-2 combo just before prevent virtually all catabolism?

Then perhaps another of this combo pre or post workout.

One before bed (probably IPAM because it's longer) and if i am in calorie deficit and manage to prevent catabolism, I should see the visual change soon enough? (probably 700cal below maintenance including cardio).

Would you recommend to add MK-677 to have more regular pulse or is it inhibited by the "major pulse" we do with the combos?
 
Thanks, if I go for some HIIT sessions in the morning, I guess that a GRF/GHRP-2 combo just before prevent virtually all catabolism?

Then perhaps another of this combo pre or post workout.

One before bed (probably IPAM because it's longer) and if i am in calorie deficit and manage to prevent catabolism, I should see the visual change soon enough? (probably 700cal below maintenance including cardio).

Would you recommend to add MK-677 to have more regular pulse or is it inhibited by the "major pulse" we do with the combos?

Nothing virtually prevents all catabolism

start am first thing no food for 30 min-1 hr and pm empty stomach before bed. Simple and will work, go from there.

Taking ghrp2+grf pre workout will give you an amazing pump but you gotta be careful not to go hypo. keep some fruit like a banana or orange with you in case you start to get the shakes, light headed or dizzy.

I haven't messed around with mk-677 don't know anything about it other than it helps your gh spikes to be higher, no idea on mechanism. ghrp grf is good enough for me.


Worth noting, it really shines when you're running aas, makes them work better at lower doses.
 
Last edited:
Thanks!

I decided to try out the HGH frag that I have. I will see how it helps. I've heard if I stay fasted while on Frag I should burn mostly the fat.
 
Unfortunately, where I live, I cannot get blood test for HGH or IGF1. The lab needs to send the vials to the capital city for test and all cost around USD150 per test.

However, if I understand correctly; HGH Frag should rise the level of Free Fatty Acid in blood serum, or is it only when you need it?

Because otherwise I would do a FFA blood serum test without and then 2hours after HGH frag injected and see if the level are significantly different, in which case I would assume the HGH frag is legit.

Would that make sense?
 
GH is recommended before bed for the rational that the best time the body heals tissue is during sleep. also taking any supplement with proper spacing times keeps levels stable. In my experience I noticed much better gains, not like your not going to get them anyway, but overall i felt and looked much better.
 

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