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Why is everyone so obsessed with the pros drug use but not many care about their different training, diet or recovery protocols? Wouldn’t it vary?

TheAnabolicFreak

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The freaks stay quiet because they know how silly the subject is.

If it was all about taking huge amounts of gear Boston Lloyd would have been at least Regan Grimes size.

Brad, if you had to compare your genetics (which I’m sure are way better than the average Joe Shmoe in the gym since you are a Pro) to someone like Phil Health or Ronnie Coleman where would you rate yourself?

Say if the guys winning the Arnold or Olympia are a 10 at the genetic level while the guy who places last at the NY Pro is a 1 or 2 where would you place yourself?
 

Type-IIx

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Brad, if you had to compare your genetics (which I’m sure are way better than the average Joe Shmoe in the gym since you are a Pro) to someone like Phil Health or Ronnie Coleman where would you rate yourself?

Say if the guys winning the Arnold or Olympia are a 10 at the genetic level while the guy who places last at the NY Pro is a 1 or 2 where would you place yourself?
B-boy will answer humbly (he's already done so) that he estimates that his genetics are slightly better than average but not close to Phil & Ronnies. When looking objectively at population averages you must think in terms of the normal distribution, or bell curve. Now as objectively as I might: b-boy's genetic potential (basically, what I would call his androgen capacity-resilience, and, hypertrophic potential; training; and nutrition) combined yielded a product (his physique) that in terms of his androgen-capacity resilience (things like his Esterase, Aromatase, CYP2C9 expression, etc.) and hypertrophic potential (things like satellite cell regenerative capacity, attributable to NO, IL-6, and Notch signaling) [together, "Genetics"], combined with his nutrition and training, that were so on point especially in his prime so as to provide the requisite building blocks for muscle (while mitigating excess body fat [macronutrients]) and provided at a near-optimal stimulus in terms of stress & recovery. All of these factors combined are necessary for becoming an IFBB pro. I note that training knowledge has only recently come into its own where as a rule I'd say most attentive/obsessed gym rats are probably training near-optimally; this might not have been so even 10 years ago. It would have been more challenging for him in regards to training optimally, but possible.

By all objective metrics, b-boy's genetics in terms of androgen capacity-resilience & hypertrophic potential are certainly several standard deviations above the norm. Now, Phil & Ronnie might be 2-3 standard deviations above b-boy's in these terms, but that doesn't arise as a tremendous absolute differences in skeletal muscle (leaving out the "intangibles") between them. But whereas Phil & Ronnie might be 11 standard deviations above the norm, perhaps b-boy is 7-8. That's a lot.

This board already selects for those above the norm. While perhaps most guys on this board are a couple standard deviations above the norm, the pros are the outliers and, rarely, even the extreme outliers.

This board is a testament to the power of genetics as well as drugs, why I love it.
 

alfresco

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I used to believe the same thing but only about training. Knew next to nothing about eating and nutrition and never took PEDs but I was convinced that there was a magic workout routine, sets, reps, how many days, order of exercises, etc. I was obsessed with it. That is what drove (literally) me to LA to to train among the biggest and the best for years.

What did I learn? Not much. They trained with much less intensity than I ever expected, much less than me and even though I emulated their training style, I got nowhere near the same results.

Still obsessed after learning next to nothing, still convinced that there was a secret, but and finally learning that the secret was there was no secret, but it took me a long ass long time to learn that.

It has been said that nothing fails like success because we don't learn from it. We learn only from failure.

Just occurred to me that the only way to keep a secret is to kill two people.

Think about it.
 

b-boy

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B-boy will answer humbly (he's already done so) that he estimates that his genetics are slightly better than average but not close to Phil & Ronnies. When looking objectively at population averages you must think in terms of the normal distribution, or bell curve. Now as objectively as I might: b-boy's genetic potential (basically, what I would call his androgen capacity-resilience, and, hypertrophic potential; training; and nutrition) combined yielded a product (his physique) that in terms of his androgen-capacity resilience (things like his Esterase, Aromatase, CYP2C9 expression, etc.) and hypertrophic potential (things like satellite cell regenerative capacity, attributable to NO, IL-6, and Notch signaling) [together, "Genetics"], combined with his nutrition and training, that were so on point especially in his prime so as to provide the requisite building blocks for muscle (while mitigating excess body fat [macronutrients]) and provided at a near-optimal stimulus in terms of stress & recovery. All of these factors combined are necessary for becoming an IFBB pro. I note that training knowledge has only recently come into its own where as a rule I'd say most attentive/obsessed gym rats are probably training near-optimally; this might not have been so even 10 years ago. It would have been more challenging for him in regards to training optimally, but possible.

By all objective metrics, b-boy's genetics in terms of androgen capacity-resilience & hypertrophic potential are certainly several standard deviations above the norm. Now, Phil & Ronnie might be 2-3 standard deviations above b-boy's in these terms, but that doesn't arise as a tremendous absolute differences in skeletal muscle (leaving out the "intangibles") between them. But whereas Phil & Ronnie might be 11 standard deviations above the norm, perhaps b-boy is 7-8. That's a lot.

This board already selects for those above the norm. While perhaps most guys on this board are a couple standard deviations above the norm, the pros are the outliers and, rarely, even the extreme outliers.

This board is a testament to the power of genetics as well as drugs, why I love it.
I take this post as a HUGE compliment!


Seriously when I was an amature and seen some of those future pros backstage at nationals, USA, and sometimes North America's, I got a huge dose of humble pie when looking from a genetic standpoint, a lot of those guys had been training way less years than me and their development and shape was super impressive. I honestly do think my genetics as an athlete was pretty damn good and that along with YEARS of consistent training gave me a physique building advantage.
 

alfresco

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I take this post as a HUGE compliment!


Seriously when I was an amature and seen some of those future pros backstage at nationals, USA, and sometimes North America's, I got a huge dose of humble pie when looking from a genetic standpoint, a lot of those guys had been training way less years than me and their development and shape was super impressive. I honestly do think my genetics as an athlete was pretty damn good and that along with YEARS of consistent training gave me a physique building advantage.

Brad, you do not become Pro with having slightly better than average genetics.
 

danieltx

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Always wanted to see Danieltx respond to one of those threads... Guys made so much progress in the last few years.
I wish I had a secret I could sell. My only secret is unwavering discipline - I do exactly what's needed every single day to reach my goals. Machine-like consistency over years is how anyone, I don't care how bad you think your genetics are, can build a great physique. The 1% genetic freaks can get away with half-assing things and look great, the rest of us can't.

I don't do anything special with PEDs, I take the same stuff everyone else takes. I use GH year-round and insulin regularly except when I'm dieting. I have a really good tolerance for these compounds (never had gyno, never lost hair, bloodwork stays good) so that's probably helped me do more than others. I do well with high testosterone and aromatize very little - 0.5mg arimidex twice a week keeps me good. PEDs truly are just a supplement at this level, intense training and impeccable diet are the keys. PEDs just make them work better.

My training is what I've figure out works for me from trial and error - almost no DBs, no BBs, all pressing on Smith or Hammer Strength, machines and cables for smaller stuff. 8-12 reps for upper body and 10-15 for lower. I have 20-30 log books and always strive to beat my numbers. Volume varies based on growing or cutting. It doesn't matter what equipment you use, just find something where you really feel the squeeze and stretch and progress on it.

My diet is super basic - lean red meat, chicken breast, jasmine rice, eggs, fruit, whey protein, etc. When I diet it's 0 carbs and carb up as needed. Food is like training if you want to get really big - you have to progressively overload yourself every year.

Recovery is the other piece of all this. I'm militant about sleep. I know when I get up in the morning if my body needs a day off and I take it. I spend way more on health supplements each month than PEDs. CPAP has been the best investment in my recovery - my strength and muscle gains really took off once I started using it.

In conclusion, I do all the things a good bodybuilder should do every single day without fail and I've done them for years. I never miss shots, I never break my diet, I never cut workouts short, I never sleep in to skip cardio. Extreme consistency and discipline is my secret.
 

qbkilla

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I wish I had a secret I could sell. My only secret is unwavering discipline - I do exactly what's needed every single day to reach my goals. Machine-like consistency over years is how anyone, I don't care how bad you think your genetics are, can build a great physique. The 1% genetic freaks can get away with half-assing things and look great, the rest of us can't.

I don't do anything special with PEDs, I take the same stuff everyone else takes. I use GH year-round and insulin regularly except when I'm dieting. I have a really good tolerance for these compounds (never had gyno, never lost hair, bloodwork stays good) so that's probably helped me do more than others. I do well with high testosterone and aromatize very little - 0.5mg arimidex twice a week keeps me good. PEDs truly are just a supplement at this level, intense training and impeccable diet are the keys. PEDs just make them work better.

My training is what I've figure out works for me from trial and error - almost no DBs, no BBs, all pressing on Smith or Hammer Strength, machines and cables for smaller stuff. 8-12 reps for upper body and 10-15 for lower. I have 20-30 log books and always strive to beat my numbers. Volume varies based on growing or cutting. It doesn't matter what equipment you use, just find something where you really feel the squeeze and stretch and progress on it.

My diet is super basic - lean red meat, chicken breast, jasmine rice, eggs, fruit, whey protein, etc. When I diet it's 0 carbs and carb up as needed. Food is like training if you want to get really big - you have to progressively overload yourself every year.

Recovery is the other piece of all this. I'm militant about sleep. I know when I get up in the morning if my body needs a day off and I take it. I spend way more on health supplements each month than PEDs. CPAP has been the best investment in my recovery - my strength and muscle gains really took off once I started using it.

In conclusion, I do all the things a good bodybuilder should do every single day without fail and I've done them for years. I never miss shots, I never break my diet, I never cut workouts short, I never sleep in to skip cardio. Extreme consistency and discipline is my secret.
One thing that stood out, do you mean literally 0 carbs as in meat, eggs, tuna? Or just trace carbs from veggies? Psmf or keto?
 

danieltx

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One thing that stood out, do you mean literally 0 carbs as in meat, eggs, tuna? Or just trace carbs from veggies? Psmf or keto?
Literally 0. I never eat vegetables at home (I use Juice Plus) unless my girlfriend cooks. If we're out to eat and they come in a dish I eat them. I guess it's PSMF because I don't consume direct fats except fish oil.
 

Cinder

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The freaks stay quiet because they know how silly the subject is.

If it was all about taking huge amounts of gear Boston Lloyd would have been at least Regan Grimes size.
So if it's not about gear (yet bostin also worked hard to gain. I know he did everything possible) then it's not about gear or hard work but rather just genetics?
 

b-boy

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So if it's not about gear (yet bostin also worked hard to gain. I know he did everything possible) then it's not about gear or hard work but rather just genetics?
It's a combination of EVERYTHING! Majority of gym rats thinks it's some secret Kuwait gear protocol...LMAO
 

iron lifter

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It's a combination of EVERYTHING! Majority of gym rats thinks it's some secret Kuwait gear protocol...LMAO
another pro once told me if you don't look like your on gear when your natty you don't have the genetics lol. now i know some are hyper responders but lotta these top guys if you look at their natty pics you can just tell they were born to bodybuild gear or no gear.
 

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Here's why:


Literally, everything he does is the opposite of the way it should be done.

He does behind the neck press with horrible rom. Most people will develop rotator cuff issues with that exercise + his rom is so little that he has a lot of excess tricep engagement in there. He's literally staying in the top half of the rom, which is where the shoulders are the least active and the triceps are the most active.

Bicep preacher curl ....rom...do I need to even explain lol?

Tricep pushdowns, he literally does half rom and that half rom is the upper half...which is exactly the part where your triceps are the LEAST engaged.

So if you wanna send someone a video and tell them exactly how to not perform every exercise, Max's video would be it. So not only do some pros train in a way where it would be ineffective for most people, they also do it in a way where you could end up getting injured lol.
 

alfresco

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Here's why:


Literally, everything he does is the opposite of the way it should be done.

He does behind the neck press with horrible rom. Most people will develop rotator cuff issues with that exercise + his rom is so little that he has a lot of excess tricep engagement in there. He's literally staying in the top half of the rom, which is where the shoulders are the least active and the triceps are the most active.

Bicep preacher curl ....rom...do I need to even explain lol?

Tricep pushdowns, he literally does half rom and that half rom is the upper half...which is exactly the part where your triceps are the LEAST engaged.

So if you wanna send someone a video and tell them exactly how to not perform every exercise, Max's video would be it. So not only do some pros train in a way where it would be ineffective for most people, they also do it in a way where you could end up getting injured lol.
It’s called upside down bodybuilding . . . whatever the pro’s do, just do the opposite 😉 Seriously though, some folks just look a weights and they just grow, can do everything ‘wrong’ but eventually, to be at the top of the game you need to pay attention to everything, always and forever.

Genetics will only get you so far.
 

iron lifter

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It’s called upside down bodybuilding . . . whatever the pro’s do, just do the opposite 😉 Seriously though, some folks just look a weights and they just grow, can do everything ‘wrong’ but eventually, to be at the top of the game you need to pay attention to everything, always and forever.

Genetics will only get you so far.
there is a guy at my gym whose grown really well, and his workouts are so luck luster always doing random shit and pump style workokuts. but you would think hes on a proper program or diet, he eats somewhat clean and trains random stuff not even super heavy but man did he grow. if only you could buy genetics. now these are the guys that when they actually do it properly are the ones winning shows etc.
 

iron lifter

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also i forgot to mention our gym was closed for almost 6 weeks, and i hadn't seen him and when i saw him again after the gym opened up he was so small i thought he got covid or something , he like i came off everything as he had no access to gym and sure enough within 4 weeks of being on the sauce he blows up again lol. not even like dbol water weight blows up as in he just gets bigger and more muscular. some guys just don't know how lucky they are with the genetics they have .

i remember justin speaking about this when he and steve were training they both bust their ass off but things were just coming much easier for steve muscle tissue wise. some guys literally just have to take some gear and pick up weights.
 

totalrecomp

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I think for some they have:

1. Tried the same diets.
2. Tried the same training splits/programs.
3. Tried the same drugs

and still are not "there" so maybe if they tried the drugs again but with the SAME dosages they would unlock the "secret."

I would estimate less than 10%(self-included) have tried 1,2,3 for a consistent decade or more which is the only real "secret" if you have somewhat average genetics.


I personally have an interest in everything bbing related that pros and for that matter, anyone better than me is doing as I am just a curious fan. Like the fans watching NFL summer camp or MLB spring training, I'm just interested.
 

qbkilla

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there is a guy at my gym whose grown really well, and his workouts are so luck luster always doing random shit and pump style workokuts. but you would think hes on a proper program or diet, he eats somewhat clean and trains random stuff not even super heavy but man did he grow. if only you could buy genetics. now these are the guys that when they actually do it properly are the ones winning shows etc.
he must have started taking his BCAA's and EAA's and intracellular mix again, lol
 

NeveReveN

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Here is the real answer:

It is extremely easy to find out their training and nutrition routines because that information is EVERYWHERE.

Steroids are illegal, so information on what they take is much harder to find, which increases the demand for that information.
I followed all the great advices of Arnold and all the great bodybuilders in the magazines for 4 years and gained about 10 pounds of quality muscle in the process. Then I moved to California and went to see Dr Kerr (this was the mid-80’s) and started taking 50mg of Anadrol-50 per day. I gained 10 pounds in 2 weeks, 20 pounds in 3 months. Then I went to Tijuana and bought 20 ampules of Primobolan and a couple bottle of Dianabol. On 100 mg Primobolan a week and 10 mg of dbol a day I gained another 10 pounds in about 3 months. I went up to 500 mg Primo a week and 50 mg dbol a day and over the next year gained another 20 pounds. Then I tried some testosterone cyp.

The secret sauce was the Secret Sauce. When I leveled off with one thing I switched and gained again. Plateau? Switch to Sostenon. Plateau again? Deca. Plateau again? Equipoise. I didn’t even start combining multiple injectibles until about 5-6 years in. Combining worked even better. Cytomel? It works. Clenbuterol? It works. Hell, E/C/A works. I didn’t try Tren until I was in my 40’s. Tren is called the Elixer of the Gods for a reason.

Point is, once training and nutrition gets pretty much dialed in, then what? Try the SAME training and diet but add in a drug and see what happens. And what happens is the training and nutrition REALLY works.

The drugs reveal the full genetic potential. The drugs maximize everything being done in the gym and at the dinner table. One cc of oil makes a much greater difference than an extra 48 egg whites a day. One cc of drug AND an extra 48 egg whites a day is even more impactful.

And when people say others are too lazy to train like the pros all of us who have a lot of experience know that it’s a lot easier to train like a pro when you’re drug like a pro. Squat day on 1000mg of test a week is an absolute joy. The torture is pure pleasure. You’re “in the zone” every rep of every workout. But squat day on nothing is just hard work. You’re not even capable of coming close to the zone no matter how determined you are.

The sport isn’t possible without the drugs. There would be 1/100th of 1 percent of bodybuilders in existence without the drugs. And 99.9 percent of those guys would all be sporting 17” arms and look like Vince Gironda at best.

It’s the drugs primarily that make this sport interesting. Interesting to look at and interesting to do. The workouts and nutrition are important, but boring.
 

Cito33189

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I watch more videos of a day of eating than drug talk.
I like to see what fat sources they use and how much.
 

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