Why not deal with a problem before it occurs-infections painful gear test flu etc

[Massive G]

I have seen thousands of posts in 13 years on these boards about pain inflammation infections cellulitus hell even dead tissue cut out and drained test flu out the ass guys miserable on stuff.

It's as simple as baking the gear at 160 degrees C in the oven for one hour then vent the vial quickly.
PEACE of mind. And no it doesn't destroy or degrade the hormone. If you are really meticulous you can pass it through a .2 um filter into a new vial and bake.

there are 2 goals to ensure that the gear is sterile and the BA pain factor is lower so baking and a dding some blank oil will make your gear like it shoud be. Potent clean and pain and particulate free.


Do the rght thing guys, it your cycle that gets fked up, it's you life that could go...worse case..take care of yourselves and IF any doubt you are in trouble get the ER 911 ASAP....

**broken link removed**
"DRY HEAT STERILIZATION OF PARENTERAL OIL VEHICLES.

T Kupiec1 , R Ahmad2 , P Matthews3 , L V Allen, Jr.4

1Analytical Research Laboratories, Edmond, OK, 2University of Central Oklahoma, Edmond, OK, 3Analytical Research Laboratories, Edmond, OK, 4Midwest Institute of Research and Technology, Edmond, OK,



Purpose.
The purpose of this study was to evaluate the effect of temperature and time on the dry heat sterilization conditions of three different parenteral oil vehicles.

Methods. Three different oils, cottonseed oil, peanut oil, and sesame seed oil were each spiked with Bacillus subtillus spores. The inoculated oils were exposed to dry heat at 4 different temperatures (150ºC, 160ºC, 170ºC, and 180ºC) for three time intervals (1, 1.5 and 2 hours).

Following inoculation and dry heat sterilization, samples were placed in a sterile laminar flow hood and processed according to <71> Sterility Tests of the USP XXIII using thioglycolate broth and fluid D. The specimens were then placed into the incubator at 30ºC for 3, 5 and 7 days and observed for bacterial growth. The above variables were performed in triplicate. Positive and negative controls were run along with each variable and group for quality control.

Results. Cottonseed oil, peanut oil, and sesame seed oil were found to be free of Bacillus subtillus following dry heat sterilization at all four temperatures for 1, 1.5 and 2 hours at 3, 5 and 7 days. The positive controls were positive for observed growth and the negative controls had no observed bacterial growth.

Conclusions. Dry heat sterilization of parenteral oils at 150ºC for one hour was sufficient time and temperature. However the authors recommend dry heat sterilization at 160ºC for one hour after the oil has reached the desired temperature. These studies were partially funded by the Professional Compounding Centers of America, Inc."
Edit/Delete Message

 

[Paul Bunyan]

This is some good advise. Thanks for posting it MassiveG.

PB

 

[lazer]

Yup, good stuff. I way leave it in for 1:15 or so so that the oil gets to that temp for an actual hour. Good post, definitely not something to leave to chance or try to deal with after the problem arises as Massive G says here.

 

[617ricky]

How do you vent a sealed vial after heating? And how much and why do you add blank oil after?

 

[617ricky]

OK I was just reading up more on this. I see info that say to vent the vial WHILE you're baking it with a pin in the top. Now would any of the contents evaporate off during the process?

 

[DatBtrue]

Good post G. Sterilizing containers & instruments follow similar temps.

Sterilizing by dry heat (i.e. oven). From: **broken link removed**

The temps & times to sterilize:

Place instruments and other items in the oven, and heat to the designated temperature. The oven must have a thermometer or temperature gauge to make sure the designated temperature is reached.

Use the list here to determine the appropriate amount of time to sterilize instruments and other items for different temperatures. (do not begin timing until the oven reaches the desired temperature, and do not open the oven door or add or remove any items). The times shown here represent the amount of time that items must be kept at the desired temperature to ensure that sterilization is achieved. Keep in mind that the total cycle time--including heating the oven to the correct temperature, sterilization, and cooling--is usually twice as long as the time noted here.


Temperature
170 degrees C (340 degrees F) - 1 hour
160 degrees C (320 degrees F) - 2 hours
150 degrees C (300 degrees F) - 2.5 hours
140 degrees C (285 degrees F) - 3 hour

 

[Massive G]

OK I was just reading up more on this. I see info that say to vent the vial WHILE you're baking it with a pin in the top. Now would any of the contents evaporate off during the process?

No just stick it in the top after it comes out of the oven for a bout 2 secs and remove it will release the pressure and some vapor.

The most painful gear I ever had in my life was legally prescribed by a compounding pharmacy and was 25% BB and 5 % BA .....I had to figure out a way to make it useful for my script.
Dliuting the 10 ml vial with 2 mls USP cottonseed oil and the baking made it smooth as butter.

In the more established older days we knew from reading the boards WHAT stuff was painful for the most part ttokyo sust, QV Enanthate, some of the Loeffler high dosed tests, Denkall Test 400 etc etc etc....
I'd see post after post of people in crippling pain and fevers and solvent abcesses and wonder why even after there were threads on it all over the place-they did not deal with it BEFORE they shot it.

Hell the baking process has been around like 15 years. The manufacturer of the oils are trying to protect the user by putting a lot of solvent in there just in case but it is terrible....sometimes.

IP when on the boards would routinely advocate baking his oils to reduce pain way back in the bolex days.

I am not advocating anyone obtain and use AAS with out a script but sometimes -even with scripted items in the US (compounded) and other countries where legal the stuff has to be shake n baked.

Stay safe and healthy you can't train while sick with solvent flu.

 

[robot]

While this might give a little piece of mind between .22 filtering and BA the source of the infection is quite often a loose nut behind the wheel.

Another common trend seems to be water based injectables over oil based.

... so 2 pins, no touching, wash your hands ... be clean
and keep a bottle of Keflex in the back of your kit just in case.

 

[HeavyHitter2]

why not vent the vial during the heating process?

 

[Doberman77]

Any chance of a guide on how to do this for us newbs who have never baked or filtered our own stuff before?

 

[Massive G]

why not vent the vial during the heating process?

Because :
A. It (The plastic hub) melts.
B. It pulls in non sterile air from the oven.

 

[Massive G]

While this might give a little piece of mind between .22 filtering and BA the source of the infection is quite often a loose nut behind the wheel.

Another common trend seems to be water based injectables over oil based.

... so 2 pins, no touching, wash your hands ... be clean
and keep a bottle of Keflex in the back of your kit just in case.

If you are saying that most infections and irritations come from injection (cleanliness) I strongly disagree.
IPA doesn't sterilize or sanitize the injection site, if you want to ensure your site is pretty damn clean and bacteria free you better scrub the area with some medical grade soap and swab the area (rubbing Betadine in circles for several minutes) to make sure that area is clean. I know most people don't go anywhere near that level of prep before they pop it in them. and I also strongly disagree with self medicating and self diagnosing an infection and type of irritation-insurance or not go to an ER if it is something serious. I got a pic of a guy who sent me of his leg being drained after surgical excison of necrotic tissue from an infection gone bad-he took keflex and waited till it was almost too late and he about lost his leg and life.
I'll post the pic tonight.

 

[jstforme]

Why I don't autoclave/bake my gear. - By SV-1

Then there's the whole issue of endotoxins and pyrogens. Again the heat needed to kill them will also fry your gear.


"Endotoxin is relatively heat stable. It will survive common heat-based disinfection and sterilization procedures. Hence, sterile items are not necessarily free from endotoxin."
http://www.acciusa.com/cts/endotoxin.html

"Different endotoxins differ in their degree of toxicity, but all are heat stable and can tolerate autoclaving."
**broken link removed**

"Endotoxins are heat stable (boiling for 30 minutes does not destabilize endotoxin)"
**broken link removed**

"Endotoxins - Heat stable molecules present in the cell walls of gram negative bacteria that have certain characteristic toxic effects"
**broken link removed**


"It is difficult to remove endotoxins from products once present. It is far better to keep finished products and components relatively endotoxin-free rather than have to remove it once present."

"Historically, vials or glass components have been rendered pyrogen-free by dry heat sterilization at high temperatures. Some texts have recommended the depyrogenation of glassware and equipment by heating at a temperature of 250 C (482 degrees Fahrenheit) for 45 minutes. It has been reported that 650 C (1202 degrees Fahrenheit) for 1 minute or 180 C (356 degrees Fahrenheit) for 4 hours, likewise, will destroy pyrogens. Studies by Tsuji et al, published in 1978, have shown that at lower temperatures (of 170 C/338 degrees Fahrenheit), thermal destruction follows second-order rate, and a 3 log reduction of endotoxin levels at lower temperatures might not be practical."

**broken link removed**


And I'm pretty sure that those temps/times will fry the hormones we use. So, if heat sterilization isn't an option, we go back to filtration/BA, imperfect though it is.

"14.1 General: Whenever possible, products shall be sterilized in the final container preferably by heat sterilization. Certain solutions and liquids that cannot be sterilized in the final container can be filtered through a sterile filter of nominal pore size 0.22um or less, or with at least equivalent microorganism-retaining properties into a previously sterilized container, such filter can remove bacteria and moulds, but not all viruses or mycoplasmas."

http://www.medisure.com.pk/drug_law/CGMP.html
And in the end it's just not necessary IMO. Maybe this will help convince some people that they're not gonna die if they don't bake the sh*t out of their juice. Concentrate on clean conditions, proper technique, use a good filter (.2 micron) and you should be fine.



Development of a Multidose Formulation for a Humanized Monoclonal Antibody Using Experimental Design Techniques

"The efficacy of the preservative against various microorganisms was measured using a modified USP/EP PET (referred to as preservative screening test in this document). Tests were conducted at Microconsult Inc (Dallas, TX). In the procedure, formulations were tested against the following microorganisms: Escherichia coli, Staphylococcus aureus, Pseudomonas aeruginosa, Candida albicans, and Aspergillus niger. The 3 bacterial strains were inoculated together at a total concentration of ~105 cfu/mL, as were the 2 fungi. Samples were incubated for 7 days at room temperature (25°C), and the total bacterial and fungal counts were measured using a colony counter. The log reduction (LR) values for the bacterial and fungal counts were calculated as log (initial count/final count)."

"Results of the preservative screening tests showed that the formulations containing 0.75% and 0.5% benzyl alcohol are potential candidates to meet the USP/EP criteria (Table 4). Both formulations demonstrated a complete kill of the tested bacterial and fungal species after 7 days. For all other samples, either the total bacterial count after 7 days was too numerous to count, or no effective reduction in the bacterial count was observed."

"Benzyl alcohol caused significant aggregation at high concentrations (≥1.0%); however, it was the most effective preservative in maintaining antimicrobial efficacy against bacteria and fungi."


http://www.aapspharmsci.org/view.asp?art=ps050208

 

[jstforme]

Why I don't autoclave/bake my gear. - By SV-1 CONTINUED

I've seen a lot of info on the board lately about how using an autoclave or pressure cooker will sterilize oil based AAS, well after a good bit of research everything I've been able to find states the exact opposite.


To start here is a quote by Justin, a moderator at UK Muscle:
Quote:
Clearing up some misconceptions

Heat sterilisation of oil will not be successful by using 250F.
250F is the heat used by a certain class of autoclave. The autoclave uses pressure also to achieve wet sterilisation, this method will work for aqueous solutions but will NOT sterilise oil. If heat is the chosen method to sterilise oil, then you must sterilise by dry heat methods, i.e. 150-170C (302 - 338F) for 1-4 hrs, (type and volume depending) which can be detrimental to certain hormone preparations.
Divert your attentions to using clean practises, filtering with a 0.22um membrane filter and incorporating a Bacteriostatic agent (BA).
I found the following to support this quote.

From the FLINDERS UNIVERSITY OF SOUTH AUSTRALIA - FACULTY OF SCIENCE AND ENGINEERING
SCHOOL OF BIOLOGICAL SCIENCES USE AND TRAINING FOR AUTOCLAVES
"Ensure that the material is autoclavable – Oils, waxes, some plastics, flammable materials and samples
containing solvents or substances that may emit toxic fumes should not be autoclaved"

Full document here:
http://www.scieng.flinders.edu.au/b...s/Autoclave.pdf


In the article Sterilization and Disinfection it says:
"Dry heat is used for the sterilization of anhydrous oils, greases, powders, etc., that cannot be easily permeated by steam. Dry heat is less efficient than wet-heat sterilization and requires longer times or higher temperatures; specific time and temperature must be determined for each type of material being sterilized.

Sterilization can usually be accomplished at 160-170C (320-338F) for periods of 2-4 hours. Higher temperatures and shorter times may be used for heat resistant materials. The heat transfer properties and arrangement of articles in the load are critical to insuring effective sterilization."

and

Steam Sterilization Disadvantages
"Unsuitable method for sterilization of anhydrous oils, greases and powders."

Full document:
**broken link removed**
The World of Autoclaves article gives a partial explanation why:
The time required to kill a known population of microorganisms in a specific suspension at a particular temperature is referred to as thermal death time (TDT). However, fats and oils slow heat penetration and increase TDT.

Full article:
**broken link removed**


Dry Heat Sterilization:
-Sterilization in the absence of water.
-Oven heated at 160 to 170 ° C for 2 to 3 hours.

Full article:
http://www.uta.edu/biology/badon/cl...Lecture 6.pdf


DRY HEAT STERILIZATION:
Equipment: Oven
Method: Dry heat sterilization is carried out at 160 deg C. to 170 deg C. for 2 to 4 hrs.
Application: Glassware, Fixed oils, Thermostable powders

STEAM STERILIZATION:
Equipment: Autoclave
Disadvantages: 1. Cannot use for oily preparation (oil base ointment)

**broken link removed**


"Fats and oils have a great protective effect on microorganisms and their spores by
interfering with the penetration of wet heat. As has been noted, wet heat at a given temperature is more lethal
than dry heat, because moisture is an effective conductor of heat and penetrates into microbial cells and spores.
If microorganisms are trapped within fat globules, then moisture can less readily penetrate into the cells and
heating becomes more like dry heat."

**broken link removed**


Biosafety Program - STERILIZATION

"The advantage of wet heat is a better heat transfer to and into the cell resulting in overall shorter exposure time and lower temperature. Steam sterilization uses pressurized steam at 121-132° C (250-270° F) for 30 or 40 minutes. This type of heat kills all microbial cells including spores, which are normally heat resistant. In order to accomplish the same effect with dry heat in an oven, the temperature needs to be increased to 160-170° C (320-338° F) for periods of 2 to 4 hours."

Full article here:
http://www.lbl.gov/ehs/biosafety/Bi...ilization.shtml


Standard Conditions for Sterilization

Dry Heat Sterilization

* 170° C (340° F)
* 1 hour (total cycle time—placing instruments in oven, heating to 170° C, timing for 1 hour, and then cooling—is from 2–2½ hours)

OR

* 160° C (320° F)
* 2 hours (total cycle time is from 3–3½ hours)
* Ideal for instruments with cutting edges and other sharps (e.g., scissors, scalpel blades, needles)

Exposure time begins only after the oven has reached the specified temperature.

Full article here:
**broken link removed**

 

[Massive G]

Totally inaccurate and false information that dry heat (*)

A: *does not work in sterilization (the bacterial load is already low if not neglible. (We are not addressing endotoxins here which are fragments of dead bacteria or shed by live bacteria (lipid in nature)

B: *that dry heat destroys the hormone (Human Grade Testosterone suspension is autoclaved after formulation in the vial prior to capping and labelling RE: Steris Phoenix AZ) thousands of documented cases of potent gear and successful cycles that have resulted from gear baked 2-3 times over again and again on the boards.

C: *that solvent level isn't evap'd or effected -more BS, literature says BA's boiling point is higher than 400 degrees-a level one would not want to go to for an hour-the pain level is substantially reduced and vapor is released-even at 220-250 degrees F (old temp ranges from the boards.)

* Add this to the fact that the dry heat was the final piece in the puzzle-more as an effective solvent reducer-(we are not relying on it as the sole agent of "sterilization) which the product is baked AFTER it is .2 um filtered into another sterile vial and (an option as well diluted with some USP oil) plus in the prescence of bacteriostatic agents like BB and BA there is little to no chance that the gear is dirty and painful.

I have been in this game a long time, plus have 2 advanced degrees in the pharmaceutical industry and 15 years manufaturing quality and engineering pharmaceutical experience from everything to parental injectables to inhalable suspensions-which are also autoclaved FYI and are "steroids".

So if you want to play cut and paste I say bring some real world experience to the table and not play "my journal article says this" VS the experience in the field is I say this.

I don't really know why I even post on the boards anymore sometimes and I really don't care if you guys play doctor with yourselves or not self diagnose self medicate self treat.

adios!

 

[KillerStack]

IP when on the boards would routinely advocate baking his oils to reduce pain way back in the bolex days.

I remember what the list said, paraphrasing, "heat on spoon over flame"

 

[Massive G]

I remember what the list said, paraphrasing, "heat on spoon over flame"

You forgot dilute with salad oil! ha ha....that method I would not recommend...however it works most of the time for IV injections of heroin and meth etc all or so I hear...and see these people that live for years on that crap!

 

[Massive G]

And if the DEA hadn't shut down San Rafeal I'd prove it to the doubters with potency tests mg/ml (before and after heat exposure)-but it would leave me open for legal problems...no body every believed me when I told them back in the day that the fina kits they were making from pellets were about 50% of the dose they claimed, (lab tests from San rafeal revealed 35-50 mg/ml on kits claiming to yield 100 mg per ml) no way in heck you can extract and recover 2 grams of hormone from pellets with 8-10 mls BA/BB magic solution or not!

Some guys on the boards way back did experiments where they extracted Trenbelone with methanol, ethanol, acetone and ether and the largest amount was 1,78 grams recovered from the ETHER in the end product and larger amounts of solvents were used-way more than 10 mls.

Even with selective recrystallization of tren pellets, where water was slowly added to methanol to recrystallize the tren the recovery was never more than 1.8 grams and the volumes reuired were large and tedious.

 

[MR. BMJ]

This is a very good post, thanks!

Can never be too cautious, especially when proper measures can be taken so easily.

I might copy and paste this to my home board, if not put an identical one up.

Thanks MG!

BMJ

 

[b-boy]

Totally inaccurate and false information that dry heat (*)

A: *does not work in sterilization (the bacterial load is already low if not neglible. (We are not addressing endotoxins here which are fragments of dead bacteria or shed by live bacteria (lipid in nature)

B: *that dry heat destroys the hormone (Human Grade Testosterone suspension is autoclaved after formulation in the vial prior to capping and labelling RE: Steris Phoenix AZ) thousands of documented cases of potent gear and successful cycles that have resulted from gear baked 2-3 times over again and again on the boards.

C: *that solvent level isn't evap'd or effected -more BS, literature says BA's boiling point is higher than 400 degrees-a level one would not want to go to for an hour-the pain level is substantially reduced and vapor is released-even at 220-250 degrees F (old temp ranges from the boards.)

* Add this to the fact that the dry heat was the final piece in the puzzle-more as an effective solvent reducer-(we are not relying on it as the sole agent of "sterilization) which the product is baked AFTER it is .2 um filtered into another sterile vial and (an option as well diluted with some USP oil) plus in the prescence of bacteriostatic agents like BB and BA there is little to no chance that the gear is dirty and painful.

I have been in this game a long time, plus have 2 advanced degrees in the pharmaceutical industry and 15 years manufaturing quality and engineering pharmaceutical experience from everything to parental injectables to inhalable suspensions-which are also autoclaved FYI and are "steroids".

So if you want to play cut and paste I say bring some real world experience to the table and not play "my journal article says this" VS the experience in the field is I say this.

I don't really know why I even post on the boards anymore sometimes and I really don't care if you guys play doctor with yourselves or not self diagnose self medicate self treat.

adios!

I agree on all points and so does our gym pharmacist that i just talked to friday I asked him a very generic question about baking oil based products, hell i was actually impressed with his knowledge, and he sure as hell was impressed with mine...LOL