Why not to train for failure.

[Big A]

Why not to train for failure.

Nike
Junior Member

Registered: Mar 2002
Location: Finland
Posts: 1
Why not to train for failure.
This sounds reasonable: **broken link removed**

Give your opinions. I think that "you have to train for failure for maximum growth" sounds crap.

I read that there are some pros writing here, so it would be nice if you could give your opinions..

thank you!



Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

03-16-2002 09:24 PM



LATS
Member

Registered: Jan 2002
Location:
Posts: 56
i agree that failure is not needed to get growth. the argument that one needs to train to failure is strictly anedotal. most of the pros that i have seen traindo not hit failure. some do but, they do not appear to be "bigger" than those who do not. plus, many peoples idea of failure is somewhat skewed. i have trained with a few pros and most tell me that they take all their sets to failure. but, when i trained with them their idea of failure and mine were completely different. i have always gone to failure strictly because i really dont mean too.lol but, it is very hard on ones central nervous system. penn state , i believe, sited a study that showed that training to failure multiple times drops the immune system down to dangerous levels. not only that, but, done for long periods of time will damage the immune system permanently.
again, i dont think that anyone has the complete answer but, there are many large men that do not go to failure and there are many large mem who do. steroids are not a factor since both sides are doing them. maybe the "lazy" pros are one to something.lol
i will also bring up the fact that the total work load is responsible for muscular growth. many people do not realize this. a friend mine who teaches at a university in california who has a phd in about every frickin' thing related to exercise and phys (by the way, he also competes and does very well) has always said it comes down to total workload. that is the only way to measure intensity. he stated that doing 10 sets of three reps in the squat at less than 75% of 1 rep max is still better that doing 85%odf one rep max two sets to failure. even though the weight is considerably less, the total workload is more. and that is what muscular growth is based on. go figure.lol



Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

03-17-2002 10:29 PM



xcelbeyond
Better than avg BB'er

Registered: Jan 2002
Location: West Coast
Posts: 336
I don't believe in always training to failure. We are all naturally programmed to win, not fail. So your mind and body do its best to not fail. You over-exert yourself and get injured more easily when failing. You play a mind game that says you're failing all the time so you mentally quit.

I believe in progressive weight training where you are constantly training the body and mind to do more!

xcelbeyond

Hey Lats, thnks for message


__________________
Lift smarter, not more


Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

03-18-2002 01:27 AM



Paul Bunyan
Moderator

Registered: Oct 2001
Location:
Posts: 299
Every heavy training day I go to positive failure. I haven't gotten stale or injured, just stronger. These are max singles or triples in different movements. Since I'm a powerlifter, things are different for me. I train for strength and bodybuilders train for size. The key is to switch your exercises often. The more experienced you are the more often you need to switch. Your central nervous system is what gets burned out, not the muscles. PB



Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

03-18-2002 02:03 AM



Phil Hernon
IFBB PRO

Registered: Jan 2002
Location:
Posts: 180
I ALWAYS, ALWYS
TRAIN TO POSITIVE FAILURE, BUT I ONLY DO 3 SETS PER BODYPART.



Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

03-18-2002 04:36 AM



Ry Roid
Moderator

Registered: Jan 2002
Location:
Posts: 214
What I do is 5 weeks of HEAVY LIFTING w/ one main set per exercise w/ forced reps than 3 drop sets. I do like 3-6 exercises per bodypart. Then I take 3 weeks off and just train till failure w/ no drops or forced reps. Usually when cutting first 6 weeks I will do like the first just lifting heavy w/ forced and drops than for the other 10 weeks I do each bodypart 2 times per week w/ one time doing heavy w/ drops then the other workout doing mostly lighter weights and more sets.

RY


__________________
You can determine a man's worth by the amount of criticism that comes out of his mouth.

-Niche


Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

03-18-2002 09:11 AM



Phil Hernon
IFBB PRO

Registered: Jan 2002
Location:
Posts: 180
HUH?
SAY THAT 1 MORE TIME RY!!!!!!! heheheheheheheh



Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

03-18-2002 12:09 PM



Ry Roid
Moderator

Registered: Jan 2002
Location:
Posts: 214
Something like this:

Offseason
Weeks 1-5
*3-7 exercise bodypart
*1 main set per exercise
*2-3 Forced reps
*3 dropsets after each exercise(Except Compounds)

WEeks 6-8
*3-7 exercise bodypart
*1 main set per exercise
*NO drops or forced

While cutting:
Weeks 1-6
*3-7 exercise per bodypart
*1 main set per exercise
*2-3 forced reps
*3 dropsets after each exercise(Cept compounds)

Weeks 7-16
*Workout each bodypart 2 times per week doing low volume, w/ and w/out drops and forced and for other workout using lower weight and higher volume.

RY


__________________
You can determine a man's worth by the amount of criticism that comes out of his mouth.

-Niche


Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

03-23-2002 05:24 AM



jstrong20
Member

Registered: Jan 2002
Location:
Posts: 51
I almost always train to failure and then do some drop sets or forced reps in just about every routine. The one exercise that I don't always go to failure in is deadlifts and they seem to still be effective.



Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

03-23-2002 05:27 AM



Big A
IFBB PRO / Moderator

Registered: Oct 2001
Location:
Posts: 428
Off season I ALWAYS train to positive failure. I only train 3 days a week and every 3 or 4 weeks I take a whole week off for extra recovery.

 

[sperminater]

how can you tell if you're making progress

or not, if you don't go to failure. don't tell me by watching the mirror. or by gaining muscle. it would take to long to find out you are doing a routine that doesn't work. thanx

 

[Mr_Magoo]

i almost always train to failure unless im doing German Volume Training, it just seems right.

 

[LATS]

THATS WHAT MAKES BODYBUILDING GREAT. you can never study it too much. there is always more to learn and different opinions to take into account. i guess the key is to always change stimulus and vary the intensity. can not go wrong that way.