Why steriods gains diminish after 8 weeks.

[MrCyp]

How are you supposed to know what to use during your break? For example im on test/npp and blasting for 8weeks, then gonna take 4-6wks off and do another 8wk blast. Should I just use hrt during that 4-6wks? I presume its ok to still try and add mass during that time, just not with heavy aas right?

 

[The Scientist]

ala king...

I think this thread is stupid, and just merely one bodybuilders opinion.... anyone who chooses to follow this protocol could seriously get hurt especially when the "scientist" is talking about all these compounds test,deca,dbol,slin,gh, etc...

REMEMBER PEOPLE ITS ABOUT EATING BIG AND TRAINING HARD AND THE GAINS WILL COME. the compounds are just icing on the cake there are many different ways to cycle,diet,train everyone is different and it takes alot of trial and error to find your thresholds.

Just remember to keep health your number 1 priority

Well I have to agree with you...this thread is stupid and we haven't learn anything from this...mmm, but then again how did we evolve to this point in bodybuilding where we've establish all these tools to merely assist us to become men of habit....The only thing I will agree with you is to eat big and always keep health first. Now by keeping your health first I just think its natural to see the health bennefits in shorter courses layered over each other.This is just this bodybuilder's opinion like you said....

 

[aesop]

Well I have to agree with you...this thread is stupid and we haven't learn anything from this...mmm, but then again how did we evolve to this point in bodybuilding where we've establish all these tools to merely assist us to become men of habit....The only thing I will agree with you is to eat big and always keep health first. Now by keeping your health first I just think its natural to see the health bennefits in shorter courses layered over each other.This is just this bodybuilder's opinion like you said....

Classic example of a self proclaimed guru without a "real" (scientific or real world) understanding of how the body works. You can't even read a study.

Bodybuilding is not a healthy endeavor, eating big is not healthy, bodybuilding as a sport is inherently unhealthy. Using peptides isn't healthy, using supraphysiological amounts of AAS is not healthy. Your theory is baseless and invalid.

 

[The Scientist]

Classic example of a self proclaimed guru without a "real" (scientific or real world) understanding of how the body works. You can't even read a study.

Bodybuilding is not a healthy endeavor, eating big is not healthy, bodybuilding as a sport is inherently unhealthy. Using peptides isn't healthy, using supraphysiological amounts of AAS is not healthy. Your theory is baseless and invalid.

Well first I've never said I'm a guru...all I do is follow up on the latest study's and put 1 and 1 together and see what is the result coming out of it.
Secondly I got 10 serious athletes who I train and couch in this sport...2 of them went to Worlds last year. So all I do is share my experince with who ever wants to read.

And nobody on here thinks bodybuilding is healthy and if they do they in for a huge awakening.

 

[xxsuprman22xx]

im not sure if this has been addressed yet.

Myostatin slows muscle building in this study. But how much effect if any do you think it would have in situations where doses are much higher...1 gram or so?

 

[giff]

i have been talkting to the scientist over email a few times, he is a very helpfull individual who backs up all his points, i dont think he posted this to proclaim he is a guru just wanted to share some information that some people live by. not saying i agree with all of it but i do agree with a lot of it. There is alot of good info to take from this thred. JMO

 

[Thewhite9t]

Classic example of a self proclaimed guru without a "real" (scientific or real world) understanding of how the body works. You can't even read a study.

Bodybuilding is not a healthy endeavor, eating big is not healthy, bodybuilding as a sport is inherently unhealthy. Using peptides isn't healthy, using supraphysiological amounts of AAS is not healthy. Your theory is baseless and invalid.

I don't believe that scientist ever made that claim, but datbetrue does make the claim that those things can be used in a manner that improves one's health.

There are also a lot of studies showing that high testosterone puts one at less risk than low testosterone for a number of diseases later on in life and can be correlated with life expectancy.

Bodybuilding is certainly not inherently unhealthy either. Can you come up with any evidence at all to support such a claim?

You ought to review your information before you go putting yourself out there like that.

 

[summersgold]

Bodybuilding-Unhealthy?

I don't believe that scientist ever made that claim, but datbetrue does make the claim that those things can be used in a manner that improves one's health.

There are also a lot of studies showing that high testosterone puts one at less risk than low testosterone for a number of diseases later on in life and can be correlated with life expectancy.

Bodybuilding is certainly not inherently unhealthy either. Can you come up with any evidence at all to support such a claim?

You ought to review your information before you go putting yourself out there like that.

I have to agree with AESOP. Weight training is not unhealthy, but bodybuilding is unhealthy as advocated in these forums. Eating 300 grams of protein a day puts a serious strain on your kidneys. Dennis Wolf talks about this in one of his columns in Muscular Development Mag. His doctors tell him he is going to damage his kidneys, but he has regular tests done and they are still functioning OK. Taking high amounts of anabolic steroids can do serious damage to your organs. There is an article in the news section of the Muscular Development.com site, Chemical enhancement, New Health concerns about testosterone. Here is part of it: Test. & AS use cause an enlargement of the heart possibly leading to less than efficient heart pumping action. Adults considering high doses of AS need to be aware that these powerful drugs could have a number of seemingly insignificant effects in the short term that could collectively present a serious challenge to ones health over the long term. There has also been a series of articles in Muscular Dev. Mag. about the dangers of the bodybuilding life style. The more I read and learn the more I think that my next cycle may be my last.

 

[MrCyp]

Is it just gains from aas that diminish from aas? For example running 8wks of test/npp with peptides and GH. Gonna take 4-6wks off then blast again. I dont do pct b/c im on hrt so I was gonna cruise at 250mg/wk but i'd still like to keep adding muscle on my 4-6wks off. Would that be a good time to maybe add more Gh and diff peptides or do they effect myostatin as well?

 

[The Scientist]

What about this theory...

Maybe this is far fetch but lets see, for istance how healthy is the athelete before he starts his course or after 8 weeks on...

Is he falling ill ? If so, is it something that will clear up with a good course of antibiotics ? Remember, a gear course will first drop your immune system, so if you are sick now you will be worse shortly after and this will build up and maybe reach break point for some at week 8 and maybe only at week 12 for others. Most infections can easily be killed off using a course of antibiotics. Indeed there is the high possibility that you are a carrier. What is a carrier?
A carrier means that you carry a virus in your body at a level, which your immune system can control but it cannot put out the fire.As soon as you get on the gear your immune system drop and you can not fight the virus anymore...

How many times have you seen atheletes trying to gain muscle for two years without no success. Mostly they feel rundown, unmotivated, having problems sleeping. When studie someone who got all these symptoms blood you will mostly pick up that he is a carrier, his thyroid will be low to mid-normal and his globulin will be elevated, a clear sign of someone fighting an infection.

So my theory is that the 8 weeks will be determined by your immune system can this be...?

 

[aesop]

I don't believe that scientist ever made that claim, but datbetrue does make the claim that those things can be used in a manner that improves one's health.

There are also a lot of studies showing that high testosterone puts one at less risk than low testosterone for a number of diseases later on in life and can be correlated with life expectancy.

Bodybuilding is certainly not inherently unhealthy either. Can you come up with any evidence at all to support such a claim?

You ought to review your information before you go putting yourself out there like that.

I do not want to get into a study war. Bodybuilding is unhealthy as it is defined, even without drugs involved, growth is disruptive. If you know anything about physiology you should know this. Eating to grow places stress on your body and even carrying extra lean mass will place undo stress on your heart, which can cause thickening of the left ventricular wall leading to decreased ejection fraction and placing even more demand on your heart. Anyway you slice it building your body beyond what is naturally attainable will be detrimental to your health and most likely will decrease your life span to a statistically significant degree.

 

[maldorf]

I do not want to get into a study war. Bodybuilding is unhealthy as it is defined, even without drugs involved, growth is disruptive. If you know anything about physiology you should know this. Eating to grow places stress on your body and even carrying extra lean mass will place undo stress on your heart, which can cause thickening of the left ventricular wall leading to decreased ejection fraction and placing even more demand on your heart. Anyway you slice it building your body beyond what is naturally attainable will be detrimental to your health and most likely will decrease your life span to a statistically significant degree.

Since my heart attack, the 20 lbs or so of muscle that I have lost actually has lessened the strain on my heart. I feel better now. I still almost weigh the same as I used to though. The muscle has been replaced with bodyfat yet my heart seems to be doing better. Carrying and supplying all of that extra muscle does put one hell of a stress on your heart. Fat on the other hand has very little blood supply and isnt metabolically active for the most part.

 

[MrCyp]

Is it just gains from aas that diminish from aas? For example running 8wks of test/npp with peptides and GH. Gonna take 4-6wks off then blast again. I dont do pct b/c im on hrt so I was gonna cruise at 250mg/wk but i'd still like to keep adding muscle on my 4-6wks off. Would that be a good time to maybe add more Gh and diff peptides or do they effect myostatin as well?

Bump?

 

[nyterdr]

syringes

Newbie- what has been a reliable source for sticks? Need to order

 

[sablya]

they've been talking for sometime about creating something that would stop myostatin in its tracks, i wish they'd hurry up with that, the muscle growth would be astounding

Yeah, look at some pictures of animals with myostatin deficiency. Gargantuan would be an understatement. Plus, we'd solve the world hunger problem with massive fish, birds and cows....

 

[PsyT]

Is it just gains from aas that diminish from aas? For example running 8wks of test/npp with peptides and GH. Gonna take 4-6wks off then blast again. I dont do pct b/c im on hrt so I was gonna cruise at 250mg/wk but i'd still like to keep adding muscle on my 4-6wks off. Would that be a good time to maybe add more Gh and diff peptides or do they effect myostatin as well?

250mg/week is NOT HRT!

You got a doctor to go along with 250mg/week????

 

[MrCyp]

250mg/week is NOT HRT!

You got a doctor to go along with 250mg/week????

No, your right. 150mg is hrt and thats what I typically use. But since this is a bridge I was just gonna up it a little to help keep the gains.

 

[Oldlifter]

Jam up thread, to say the least! To scientific for me, but nonetheless good thread.

It does spawn a question in me. Obviously the pro's have found ways to gain optimal size and condition. How so? What are they doing? I know genetics are a factor with them, but I assume on this board there are also genetics freaks that haven't "found" the right "mix" of what to do and not to do.

So, what are they doing (drugs/diet/training) to achieve their (pro's) physique's (goals)? Why are they so secretive about it? Yada yada yada! They do have the answers.

Maybe they could post under an anonymous name, and give the do's and don'ts. Would be nice!

As far as it being unhealthy, I have to agree with the consensus of it being in the "unhealthy" category. I can see where excess bodyweight would not be optimal for an individuals overall longevity and or quality of life. You don't see to many centenarians 200'lbs or so. Just food for thought.

 

[iprimate]

Maybe this is far fetch but lets see, for istance how healthy is the athelete before he starts his course or after 8 weeks on...

Is he falling ill ? If so, is it something that will clear up with a good course of antibiotics ? Remember, a gear course will first drop your immune system, so if you are sick now you will be worse shortly after and this will build up and maybe reach break point for some at week 8 and maybe only at week 12 for others. Most infections can easily be killed off using a course of antibiotics. Indeed there is the high possibility that you are a carrier. What is a carrier?
A carrier means that you carry a virus in your body at a level, which your immune system can control but it cannot put out the fire.As soon as you get on the gear your immune system drop and you can not fight the virus anymore...

How many times have you seen atheletes trying to gain muscle for two years without no success. Mostly they feel rundown, unmotivated, having problems sleeping. When studie someone who got all these symptoms blood you will mostly pick up that he is a carrier, his thyroid will be low to mid-normal and his globulin will be elevated, a clear sign of someone fighting an infection.

So my theory is that the 8 weeks will be determined by your immune system can this be...?

I haven't read this thread in its entirety so I won't contribute to the principal concern of the topic but rather this minor topic. The most common infection is the common cold and almost all times its cause is viral. Antiobiotics have no antiviral activity so they won't in any way help a common cold.

The phenomenon you describe in your second last paragraph is broadly known as "burn out" and there have been many studies on it specifically and its relation -- if any -- to Chronic Fatigue Syndrome and depressive illness. I briefly surveyed the PubMed indexed literature on this topic many months ago and the cause of athletic burn out appears to remain unknown. From memory, HPTA disregulation, serotonin and dopamine system disturbance was implicated as was hypercortisolemia in some cases. Although the cause of burn out remains a mystery its cause is not infection. Those that are burnt out tend to get infections easily but that is because their immune systems are weakened. Don't confuse correlation with causation.

For what its worth I don't think burn out has any connection with the dose-response curve of AAS nor does the immune system.

 

[iprimate]

I do not want to get into a study war. Bodybuilding is unhealthy as it is defined, even without drugs involved, growth is disruptive. If you know anything about physiology you should know this. Eating to grow places stress on your body and even carrying extra lean mass will place undo stress on your heart, which can cause thickening of the left ventricular wall leading to decreased ejection fraction and placing even more demand on your heart. Anyway you slice it building your body beyond what is naturally attainable will be detrimental to your health and most likely will decrease your life span to a statistically significant degree.

Your understanding of LVH is not quite correct. There is an important distinction to be made between physiological and pathological LVH. This distinction is made on the bassis of both causes and effects. The heart's response to mechanical load is to add new sarcomeres in series with existing sarcomeres. This is normal, non-pathological and adaptive remodelling. This type of LVH reverses on reduction of load, it is akin to skeletal muscle hypertrophy. This does not produce wall stiffness and decreased eject fraction. Pathological LVH is typically due to hypertension or chronically elevated catecholamine levels and is due to interstitial fibrosis which reduces wall flexibility and produces decreased eject fraction. This does not reverse without intervention. Under increased humoral load (eg. hypertension) inelastic fibres will be added instead of sarcomeres -- this is the nub of the problem.

(If you want references please search my other posts on this topic.)