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"Will Any Steroid Result in Permanent Strength Gain?"

omoplata

Active member
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Dec 23, 2007
Messages
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I am relaying a question that was asked to me by an MMA fighter. I am not sure of the answer and would love to hear what you guys think.

BACKGROUND
Guy is an amateur MMA fighter competing at 185 lbs. He walks around at like 195. When he steps into the cage at 185, he is pretty lean already. So there is almost no room to lose fat, gain muscle and still compete at 185.

His question
"If I do a steroid cycle, I would have to stop the cycle and PCT like at least 8 months before I compete. I would like to gain more power for grappling. Let's say I start at 195 lbs, go ahead and do any sort of cycle, then after some time quit the cycle, do my PCT, finish PCT and then come back down to 195 lbs. So I finish where I started as far as amount of muscle and amount of fat; I will have the same amount of muscle mass as I had before the cycle and the cycle and PCT will have finished like 8-9 months ago (otherwise I can test positive when I compete). At this point, will I actually be more powerful compared to before doing a cycle?"

My answer is: he will possibly be a little stronger but not by much.
Of course he understands that doing a cycle will have the added benefit of speeding up recovery and he may be able to train harder during his cycle. He is a pretty smart guy and educated himself about this issue.
But he is primarily looking to be more powerful and I think the benefit in that regard will be fairly minor.

BTW, my understanding is that doing what he thinks of would not be illegal. When they do a test, they do not ask you something like "have you ever in your life taken a banned substance?". But do correct me if I am wrong. Say a UFC fighter came out and said "many years before starting MMA I took test + tren and I think even after a decade of having last touched steroids I still retain some of the extra power"... Would this be sufficient grounds for an athletic commission to revoke his license?
 
Not to be a dick at all , I try not to be an asshole , especially online . It's a pretty stupid question . Running a "cycle" than pct and 8-9 months off of it equates to about a year of strength training . If after a year of strength training he isn't any stronger or more powerful it's got nothing to do with gear and he needs to reevaluate his training . There are a bunch of natty powerlifters and Olympic lifters that get stronger each year and stay in the same weight class. But an honest answer to your question , I have fought , and used gear . I'd say the gear will put him 3 steps forward and 2 back after 8-9 months off .
 
I believe athletes in your example would use androgens for improved recovery in fight camp, not permanent strength gains.
 
Just a guess, I'd say yes. If he is able to add lbm example be 6 percent vs 8.5 percent at 185 ...so more muscle..at next fight. Or if he lifts and increased his strength due to being on and retained that same strength and power. Not sure how it would translate to functional strength. Also keep in mind enhanced recovery for the period he is on.

All just guessing others probably can speculate more it's 6 am I'm half awake
 
Not to be a dick at all , I try not to be an asshole , especially online . It's a pretty stupid question . Running a "cycle" than pct and 8-9 months off of it equates to about a year of strength training . If after a year of strength training he isn't any stronger or more powerful it's got nothing to do with gear and he needs to reevaluate his training . There are a bunch of natty powerlifters and Olympic lifters that get stronger each year and stay in the same weight class. But an honest answer to your question , I have fought , and used gear . I'd say the gear will put him 3 steps forward and 2 back after 8-9 months off .

Bro
I am not very smart, but I am not retarded either.

The misunderstanding comes from a very simple omission on my part. This guy has been weight training for a decade already. He already is near the very top of what he can naturally accomplish as far as pure strength. If my example involved someone who never trained with weights before, yes it would have been a stupid question....
 
Just a guess, I'd say yes. If he is able to add lbm example be 6 percent vs 8.5 percent at 185 ...so more muscle..at next fight. Or if he lifts and increased his strength due to being on and retained that same strength and power. Not sure how it would translate to functional strength. Also keep in mind enhanced recovery for the period he is on.

All just guessing others probably can speculate more it's 6 am I'm half awake

He is like at around maybe 6 percent bodyfat already -never measured him; I am guessing... But he has very little room to come in at 185 and improve body composition.
 
His question
"If I do a steroid cycle, I would have to stop the cycle and PCT like at least 8 months before I compete. I would like to gain more power for grappling. Let's say I start at 195 lbs, go ahead and do any sort of cycle, then after some time quit the cycle, do my PCT, finish PCT and then come back down to 195 lbs. So I finish where I started as far as amount of muscle and amount of fat; I will have the same amount of muscle mass as I had before the cycle and the cycle and PCT will have finished like 8-9 months ago (otherwise I can test positive when I compete). At this point, will I actually be more powerful compared to before doing a cycle?"
Where does he get the understanding, he would have to complete cycle and PCT 8 months out? Are they testing him a few months out? Are these tests getting that sensitive enough to be able to detect a banned substance with a very short half-life that far out from the testing? I know with testing for about any drug now a days, they are testing for metabolites (by-product) as well as the drug itself. I would think he could run something with a shorter half-life and take the cycle up closer to when he knows or thinks he will be getting tested. Compounds in say like a suspension, Acetate, or even Propionate. First thing that comes to mind is just a Test only based cycle, or say an oral like Anavar, Drol, Superdrol. I'm curious to see what kind of feedback you get from some of the real educated members about testing specifically for MMA. I don't know enough about it, nor do I stay on top of testing protocols now as days.
 
Where does he get the understanding, he would have to complete cycle and PCT 8 months out? Are they testing him a few months out? Are these tests getting that sensitive enough to be able to detect a banned substance with a very short half-life that far out from the testing? I know with testing for about any drug now a days, they are testing for metabolites (by-product) as well as the drug itself. I would think he could run something with a shorter half-life and take the cycle up closer to when he knows or thinks he will be getting tested. Compounds in say like a suspension, Acetate, or even Propionate. First thing that comes to mind is just a Test only based cycle, or say an oral like Anavar, Drol, Superdrol. I'm curious to see what kind of feedback you get from some of the real educated members about testing specifically for MMA.

I was wondering the exact same thing and will ask him when I catch him.
But I do know that if you are getting tested by USADA, you have to get tested 6 months before you fight. In other words, it is not enough to be clean on fight day but you gotta have approval that you have been tested clean on fight day as well as during the 6 months prior.


Now is this guy gonna get tested by USADA or another body? Will the testing procedure work differently because he is just about to turn pro? I do not know these details
 
I was wondering the exact same thing and will ask him when I catch him.
But I do know that if you are getting tested by USADA, you have to get tested 6 months before you fight.
Now this makes sense with him needing to be cleaned out 8 months out from his fight. Gives him roughly 2 months to have his system completely cleaned out including metabolites.
 
I'm wondering if this includes randoms during this 6-month period as well?
For UFC it does.
You enter the testing pool and once you're in the pool, they can show yup at your doorstep any time
and as far as I recall you have to have been in the pool for at least 6 months before you are cleared to fight
 
For UFC it does.
You enter the testing pool and once you're in the pool, they can show yup at your doorstep any time
and as far as I recall you have to have been in the pool for at least 6 months before you are cleared to fight
Ok, this is starting to become much clearer for why it is the way it is that he has to complete his PCT 8 months out. Did he state what the duration is that he can run a cycle? When's his next fight, did he say? First and foremost, I would think compounds with very short evacuation times from the body is the focus, along with compounds known for increasing strength without adding a lot of weight and maybe just a little muscle mass increase while on. Just a Test base with a very short to short ester is what keeps coming to mind with this guy's situation, or Var. A compound with a primarily high androgen value doesn't make sense with him having to be cleaned out 8 months from the fight. I'm curious what kind of response you're going to get from some of the guys on the board with MMA experience.
 
The longer you have held your strength and size the less you will lose when you stop.
 
Not to get off topic but do MMA guys ever incorporate slin t3 etc?
 
Bro
I am not very smart, but I am not retarded either.

The misunderstanding comes from a very simple omission on my part. This guy has been weight training for a decade already. He already is near the very top of what he can naturally accomplish as far as pure strength. If my example involved someone who never trained with weights before, yes it would have been a stupid question....
If he's young enough to fight still he hasn't peaked in strength . Look how old the strongmen and powerlifters peak at
 
Absolutely no eq , I heard metabolites last like 18 months or something crazy like that .. I would do tne in his shoes . Find a good strength and conditioning coach that focus' on explosive power and endurance in type2 muscle fiber training . Static strength rarely matters against other skilled fighters
 
I am relaying a question that was asked to me by an MMA fighter. I am not sure of the answer and would love to hear what you guys think.

BACKGROUND
Guy is an amateur MMA fighter competing at 185 lbs. He walks around at like 195. When he steps into the cage at 185, he is pretty lean already. So there is almost no room to lose fat, gain muscle and still compete at 185.

His question
"If I do a steroid cycle, I would have to stop the cycle and PCT like at least 8 months before I compete. I would like to gain more power for grappling. Let's say I start at 195 lbs, go ahead and do any sort of cycle, then after some time quit the cycle, do my PCT, finish PCT and then come back down to 195 lbs. So I finish where I started as far as amount of muscle and amount of fat; I will have the same amount of muscle mass as I had before the cycle and the cycle and PCT will have finished like 8-9 months ago (otherwise I can test positive when I compete). At this point, will I actually be more powerful compared to before doing a cycle?"

My answer is: he will possibly be a little stronger but not by much.
Of course he understands that doing a cycle will have the added benefit of speeding up recovery and he may be able to train harder during his cycle. He is a pretty smart guy and educated himself about this issue.
But he is primarily looking to be more powerful and I think the benefit in that regard will be fairly minor.

BTW, my understanding is that doing what he thinks of would not be illegal. When they do a test, they do not ask you something like "have you ever in your life taken a banned substance?". But do correct me if I am wrong. Say a UFC fighter came out and said "many years before starting MMA I took test + tren and I think even after a decade of having last touched steroids I still retain some of the extra power"... Would this be sufficient grounds for an athletic commission to revoke his license?
With everything I read i would say don't do any aa, just do some what is it? TB 500 plus PBC 157 ? And 2iu's GH that will probably be much better than for example 20mgs var, but if he wants to do aa, then i would only use orals for as long as possible, maybe 10mgs d-bol + 20 var, but good luck finding real var. Another option would be 25 oxy + 10 winstrol, or what about just 10 mgs of halo? Again good luck with that, oh yeah i forgot about t-bol which is probably more likely to be real, again I would do no more than 20 mgs or so
 
It's kinda about what level he is at. If ufc he has USADA I had a guy I used to train with make it to the UFC and they just showed up at his house one day to do a test. He was away getting a tattoo so they went to the tattoo shop and he had to give a sample. Locally here they just test before a fight and they usually just test for drugs and not peds. Not saying they don't but the test is more expensive so not everyone gets it. Most people they test are just known to associate themselves with steroids so keep a tight lid on that. So really what level is he at?
 
The longer you have held your strength and size the less you will lose when you stop.
I can give a example of this.. I can take a month off.. come back and use the same loads for the same reps. . I have done it numerous times over the years.
 

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